Vulcan versus Standard Rocna, SS v Galvanized

[BruceK]

One of the TF regulars (I can't recall who) described a technique some time last year that I thought was good.

He would set with just idle power, then shut down and have a beer, eat dinner or whatever for about an hour. This allowed the anchor soak. He then would go back and set the anchor with more force.

To me this made a lot of sense if you are in a situation where you have some force on the rode for that hour. It allows the anchor to dig in over time with mild force, then you set it deeper with the engine.

The perhaps more abstemious Nigel Calder suggested that after anchoring, the crew sit down to make and enjoy a cup of tea, while observing the set and the boat`s relationship to chosen landmarks. I don`t think he suggested loading the rig post cup of tea, but it sure makes sense to test the set.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Bigfish,
They are still on the internet at (xyzanchor.com).
My XYZ has been modified for better short scope performance. No reason to believe it was lacking there .. just wanted to experiment and more importantly I lost the original SS tip.

Photo's are as follows;
!. New anchor as shipped.
2. The first modification using a rectangular piece of 1/4" mild steel plate to replace the lost tip.
3. The second modification that narrowed the tip somewhat to make it more mainstream and increase the chances of setting on harder bottoms.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Yes, I get that, and with your spade type Boss, a back-down to set is probably a good idea, but the exact power needed probably does not need exactitude, is what I was getting at I guess. For my Super-Sarca, I just let the drag of the boat set it most times, unless there is no wind or current. Works well for that type in my experience.

Peter,
Why would the two different anchors require or prefer different setting technique?

 

[Bigsfish]

Thanks Eric. Very interesting design. What is the purpose of the "bar" above the shackle that has a small hole drilled in it?

Strange that I have never heard of them before. Where are they made?

 

[Nomad Willy]

BigFish,
It's like a roll bar. Upside down the "horn" digs in, levers the fluke up and then it tips over leaving the anchor on it's side ready to set. The shank does that on a Boss or Vulcan. Different ways to keep the anchor on it's side or right side up.
Nice carrying handle too. Made in NY. High quality materials. In this case it would exclude my aftermarket fluke tip that is mild steel. It's only 1/4" but I had planned to make another of 5/16".

Here's a closeup of the original special SS alloy (1700 series I think) tip. And before you ask yes those saw teeth are sharp.

 

[Delfin]

Is our method below an alternate or majority view? --

I idle back down on my anchor. This really stretches the road. Where we anchor, in 6 hours or less the tidal change will 180 the vessel and rode. If the predicted winds are for 40 knots I'm in a protected anchorage.

If worse comes to worse I have a good and oversized anchor that I know sets quickly and holds fast in 35 knots. With no serious backing down, in these winds Mother Nature does that for our vessel. Works for me and where we cruise. But shallow water East Coast is different.

I'm with you Tom. A decent anchor will bury itself if gently tugged on. I have never understood the whole reverse at 1/2 power to set the hook but clearly it works well for others. For me, I prefer having a diving anchor design that will settle into the bed as a consequence in response to a bit of encouragement.

 

[FF]

One simple technique in reversing water is to set the anchor at 90deg to either current flow.

Usually just current wont move a set anchor , but if that 40K thunderstorm blows thru the anchor just has to twist a bit , rather than reverse.

 

[ranger58sb]

Bigfish,
They are still on the internet at (xyzanchor.com).
My XYZ has been modified for better short scope performance. No reason to believe it was lacking there .. just wanted to experiment and more importantly I lost the original SS tip.

BigFish,
Nice carrying handle too. Made in NY. High quality materials.

Here's a closeup of the original special SS alloy (1700 series I think) tip. And before you ask yes those saw teeth are sharp.

How did you lose the tip? While/during anchoring? If so, is it that the design or materials allow for losing the tip? (Can't say that would be an endearing quality...)

Or...?

-Chris

 

[rwidman]

I think some folks are making anchoring a boat a lot more complicated than it needs to be. If you're anchoring for a hurricane or to leave your boat unattended for a week or more, that's one thing but if you're just stopping for the night and will be on the boat with an anchor drag alarm and you've picked a reasonable place to anchor, just using normal techniques should be fine.

 

[Peter B]

Peter,
Why would the two different anchors require or prefer different setting technique?

Quite simply because, as you have often pointed out yourself Eric, the S-Sarca tends naturally to be a quick setter, so letting it drag and settle over time works. This being a function of the roll-bar always flipping it into the right setting attitude, and the fluke shape being wedge or convex shaped, it tends to dig in naturally.

The spade shape of the Boss, which is also concave in the fluke, and with no roll-bar to orientate it if it fell onto its side, means it may not set so well left to its own devices, and that getting it to dig in and get under the substrate with some reverse power earlier on probably makes good sense, because its setting comes from the shank shape and the weight in the tip. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I'm for setting any anchor Peter. I know you think your Sarca is special but when it comes to setting an anchor is an anchor. I don't think the Manson Boss is a weak setter and needs special treatment.

 

[Bigsfish]

Hi Eric

Thanks fir the info. Another anchor to consider when time comes. I am surprised that they think their large anchor will hold a large boat (over 50'), I wonder it that is just manufacturers hype?

 

[Nomad Willy]

How did you lose the tip? While/during anchoring? If so, is it that the design or materials allow for losing the tip? (Can't say that would be an endearing quality...)

Or...?

-Chris

Chris my inclination that I should have explained the tip loss apparently was right. But the story isn't really simple.

There was a man temporarily in Thorne Bay where I lived that was severly attracted to the XYZ .. had to have it. I sold it to him for $200 because I had a shank and fluke from a mix-up in ordering from XYZ. So I assumed I could just order a new fluke tip. Well for some reason the XYZ guy (forget his name) said he didn't have any .. that he only made SS anchors "now". To this day I have no idea why he wouldn't sell me the tip .. but he wouldn't. His add for steel anchors remains to this day.

For a year or so the fluke and shank just sat in my garage. Later I realized making a new tip wouldn't be that hard and started looking for a piece of plate steel. I found a source of scrap metal at a machine shop in Craig. The machinist there made the new tip from a pice of scrap. Who knows it could be 4140 steel but most likely it was/is just mild steel. It's only 1/4" and hasn't bent so ???.

I saw my chisel tiped anchor wasn't the only anchor w/o a pointy tip so on our trip south I used it most of the time. It worked perfectly so I assumed all the bottoms I used it in were mud. My plan was to deploy it every night and if it wouldn't hook up throw out something else. I had several anchors .. of course.

Here in Washington anchoring at Fishermans Bay (Lopez Is) the XYZ wouldn't hook up on the grass in the shallow water. As always my 13lb Danforth did so we spent the night out in front of the marina there. If I had tried more to set it I'm sure it would have set laying on it's side but it was not very warm, blowing 25 and I was tired so I gave up easily.

After that I put the notches in the fluke. Haven't tried the XYZ since though. In retrospect though I don't think the knotches would have helped in the grass. On it's side the fluke tip becomes almost vertical and only 1/4" wide. I can imagine that cutting easily down into grass.

So that's the story.

Here's a pic of the XYZ on it's side. It likes to land on it's heavy butt and then flat on it's bottom w the shank up ... and the fluke tip horizontal. Laying it down at 90 degrees to the set would almost IMO insure coming to the sideways position. A reversal would probably work fine too. You can see the corner of the fluke tip could easily be seen as a sharp knifelike appendage that would penetrate most anything.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Hi Eric

Thanks fir the info. Another anchor to consider when time comes. I am surprised that they think their large anchor will hold a large boat (over 50'), I wonder it that is just manufacturers hype?

Bigfish,
Don't know. Held our 30' 8 ton boat in a bad (50+ knot) gale but other than that I've seen no testing on the the XYZ anchor that I have. There has been testing on other variations of the XYZ (one that I had) and their performance was almost a flat line .. very poor. Mine wouldn't set. See pic.

But if someone want's to dabble in anchor testing w a 2-300hp boat we could find out something most likely. Perhaps just the revaluation that my tip is indeed mild steel. Not worried about bending it. Since there's no good testing of this specific anchor I couldn't recommend it. I never have. Just pass along my experiences. Mounting the XYZ on the bow may not be great but perhaps under a bow pulpit ??? It came in 18 and 33lbs. Perhaps he's making bigger ones now.

In defense of this early XYZ it was indeed a terrible setter. However we were in the NE corner of Queen Charlotte Strait when we heard gale warnings. An excellent anchorage was nearby .. Allison Harbor. We went there and (w some effort) got the XYZ to set. Spent one and a half days there on the little 13lb anchor w/o moving.

 

[ranger58sb]

Chris my inclination that I should have explained the tip loss apparently was right. But the story isn't really simple.

There was a man temporarily in Thorne Bay where I lived that was severly attracted to the XYZ .. had to have it. I sold it to him for $200 because I had a shank and fluke from a mix-up in ordering from XYZ. So I assumed I could just order a new fluke tip. Well for some reason the XYZ guy (forget his name) said he didn't have any .. that he only made SS anchors "now". To this day I have no idea why he wouldn't sell me the tip .. but he wouldn't. His add for steel anchors remains to this day.

Ah, Interesting. And it sounds like the XYZ has an odd marketing plan.



-Chris

 

[Peter B]

I'm for setting any anchor Peter. I know you think your Sarca is special but when it comes to setting an anchor is an anchor. I don't think the Manson Boss is a weak setter and needs special treatment.

I didn't say the Boss is a weak setter, just a standard setter, that benefits from a more standard approach with some reverse pull. I can't help it if the S-Sarca is somewhat unique in its setting speed. Steve's videos tell that story, just that my experience is consistent with that.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sorry ..
Sounds good to me Peter.