Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-10-2012, 09:42 AM   #1
Guru
 
City: Full Time Cruising East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Meridian
Vessel Model: Krogen-42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 756
Up only type windless

For those of you that have had an UP-ONLY type windless, how did you cope with dropping the hook? I have found it can get away from you if you are not careful. I guess one option would be to use the drum portion although I would expect the chain to eat that up.

I have a Powerwinch gypsy/drum UP-ONLY windless on my new to me 36í Albin with 90íchain and 100í rope rode with a 35# CQR. There is no manual clutch to allow for using the windless and no free-fall option.This one still runs well and others have used it for 30 years so Iíd rather keep it for now.
__________________
Advertisement

meridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 10:38 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Gulfstar 36's Avatar
 
City: Kent Island
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sundowner
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 36 MrkII
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
I have one of these and it was mounted so I could not use chain. The boat came with a well-worn 160' of line and 6' of chain. I replaced it with 50' of chain and 150' of 8 plait. But once I found out I could not hoist the chain I loped 40' off. I guess it is backwards. For the bay I only use 10' of chain to I drop and hoist by hand.
__________________

Gulfstar 36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 11:07 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Capn Craig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 418
I have a up only Ideal windless with about 75 feet of 5/16 BB chain and a 27 lb anchor. I am able to lower it by hand but it is heavy with 50' of chain out. Fortunately in my case, the Mississippi is seldom over 20' deep anyplace I want to anchor so I never experience the wieght of more than the anchor and 20' or less chain. It's a nuisance but not a show stopper. The Admiral can't do it though.
It is run by a DC motor so I see no reason why reversing the polarity on the motor wouldn't make it run backward. Mechanically I see no reason why it wouldn't function in reverse either. I haven't tried it on an experimental basis to prove my theory as I have far more higher priority projects. My tentitive plan would add either a double pole double throw solonoid or a second solonoid to control the ground in the up direction and a second set of two soloniods for the down direction. I would add a second foot switch thru the deck. Important Safety Note, dont step on both switches at the same time. And install and /or check that the existing breaker is up to the task if some fool does step on both simultaneously.
Anybody ever do or try such a thing?
Capn Craig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 11:41 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Gulfstar 36's Avatar
 
City: Kent Island
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sundowner
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 36 MrkII
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
I tried the reversing trick on my Powerwinch and it just locked up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Craig View Post
I have a up only Ideal windless with about 75 feet of 5/16 BB chain and a 27 lb anchor. I am able to lower it by hand but it is heavy with 50' of chain out. Fortunately in my case, the Mississippi is seldom over 20' deep anyplace I want to anchor so I never experience the wieght of more than the anchor and 20' or less chain. It's a nuisance but not a show stopper. The Admiral can't do it though.
It is run by a DC motor so I see no reason why reversing the polarity on the motor wouldn't make it run backward. Mechanically I see no reason why it wouldn't function in reverse either. I haven't tried it on an experimental basis to prove my theory as I have far more higher priority projects. My tentitive plan would add either a double pole double throw solonoid or a second solonoid to control the ground in the up direction and a second set of two soloniods for the down direction. I would add a second foot switch thru the deck. Important Safety Note, dont step on both switches at the same time. And install and /or check that the existing breaker is up to the task if some fool does step on both simultaneously.
Anybody ever do or try such a thing?
Gulfstar 36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 12:40 PM   #5
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 511
I don't have a windlass on this boat, but. ....I grew up on shrimp boats that used the cat head on the net winch to also pull the anchor when needed. Here's the simple way. Get a Fortress/Guardian aluminum anchor and about 20' of chain, the rest of the rode can be rope. Mark your rope in 25' increments so that you can reef as much out as you think you'll need to provide adequate scope and cleat it off. This way it can't get away from you and you should be able to lower the anchor and chain pretty easily by hand and you can throw a coil around the cathead before you drop the anchor and chain to control the speed of the freefall by hand if you're in really deep water. Hope this is clear as sometimes its hard for me to write what I'm trying to say.
__________________
TIME well wasted
34' Mainship III
Cape Coral, FL
twiisted71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 12:43 PM   #6
Guru
 
bobofthenorth's Avatar
 
City: Cowichan Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gray Hawk
Vessel Model: Defever 43 Offshore Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 570
We have a Maxwell vertical capstan up only. I don't know what model. I have exactly the opposite problem. If my windlass hasn't been used for a month or so it becomes unwilling to allow the chain to freefall. I've taken it apart, greased everything that I could, cursed it and eventually decided that is just the way it is. After we have dropped the anchor a few times by manually dragging the chain out of the locker it eventually decides that it can (grudgingly) allow the chain to run out, most of the time.

If money was unlimited I'd have one, preferably hydraulic, that powered in both directions. But money is not unlimited and when this one works it works reasonably well. We can control the speed of the free fall by tightening the capstan down against its friction clutch so when the chain does decide to come out we can control it reasonably well.
bobofthenorth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:20 PM   #7
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Our boat came with a large, no-name, power-up only windlass (second photo) It was fitted with a friction clutch controlled by a handwheel. So to deploy the anchor whoever was at the windlass simply controlled the speed of the chain going out with the handwheel. No problem.

When the windlass lunched some teeth on its not-available-anymore drive gears we replaced it with a Lofrans Tigres (first photo). Power out and in, although it still has a handwheel to control the friction clutch. It also has a manual retrieve mode. So if we had to deploy the anchor without the benefit of the motor we would do the same thing we did on our old windlass.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Tigres.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	98.9 KB
ID:	11889  
Attached Images
 
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:21 PM   #8
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Delete duplicate post.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:52 PM   #9
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Dropping/lowering the anchor scares me to heck! Our anchors are 70+ lbs which is about all my wife can lift/handle. I been thinking about getting a bigger/heavier anchor but my wife refuses to bulk/muscle up.

I thought about installing a reversing solenoid for about 100 bucks, but since the windless is slow, so at some point, would loosen the clutch/brake and let is free fall until the anchor hits bottom. Then using the brake let/play out the chian until the desired scope.

We donít anchor much but each year I pull the chain out and WD-40 it to make sure there are not kinks and it comes out of the locking with not hang ups. Especially the bottom of the chain pile that does not get used much.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 05:01 PM   #10
Guru
 
Shoalwaters's Avatar
 
City: Rodney Bay Lagoon
Country: St. Lucia, West Indies
Vessel Name: "Dragon Lady"
Vessel Model: DeFever 41
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 681
My boat also came with a Powerwinch; up-only and no clutch on the chain gypsy, so letting out chain involved gloves and a lot of hand over hand. I wanted to be able to motor the chain down and installed a reversing solenoid. Like Gulfstar, I found that the gear train just locked up. The secret is the roller bearing which supports the smallest gear (arrow). The tiny rollers only permit rotation in one direction. I replaced it with a standard bearing and the windlass is now reversible.

My Powerwinch is a fairly ugly piece of engineering and not best suited to the marine environment. Although it now motors the chain down, it does so very slowly. It is better than nothing, but a real windlass with a clutch like Marin's is definitely on my wish-list. Please note that the picture was taken before I cleaned, lubed and painted the whole thing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Yellow arrow.jpg
Views:	241
Size:	164.8 KB
ID:	11897  
__________________
Mike
If all else fails, read the instructions
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Shoalwaters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:56 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Gulfstar 36's Avatar
 
City: Kent Island
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Sundowner
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 36 MrkII
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 226
Great info! Here is a photo of mine from the day be bought her. Not much to look at. How do you remove the cover, unbolt the whole unit?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalwaters View Post
My boat also came with a Powerwinch; up-only and no clutch on the chain gypsy, so letting out chain involved gloves and a lot of hand over hand. I wanted to be able to motor the chain down and installed a reversing solenoid. Like Gulfstar, I found that the gear train just locked up. The secret is the roller bearing which supports the smallest gear (arrow). The tiny rollers only permit rotation in one direction. I replaced it with a standard bearing and the windlass is now reversible.

My Powerwinch is a fairly ugly piece of engineering and not best suited to the marine environment. Although it now motors the chain down, it does so very slowly. It is better than nothing, but a real windlass with a clutch like Marin's is definitely on my wish-list. Please note that the picture was taken before I cleaned, lubed and painted the whole thing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bow.jpg
Views:	128
Size:	77.4 KB
ID:	11899  
Gulfstar 36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 07:07 PM   #12
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
If you need help from the Powerwinch lowering the anchor, can't you just wrap the rode the other way around the capstan? IOW, wrap over the top to raise, wrap under the bottom to lower?

I had a PW when I bought my 34 Californian. It was a lot of work and left a mess on te fwd deck. It got replaced with a windlass and a RW washdown hose within a few years.
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 08:49 PM   #13
Guru
 
City: Full Time Cruising East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Meridian
Vessel Model: Krogen-42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 756
Mike,
Did you just use a DPDT toggle switch? Mine currently has a spst on top of the case.
meridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 09:06 PM   #14
JAT
Guru
 
JAT's Avatar
 
Country: US
Vessel Name: Just a Tinch
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 44 MC
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Craig View Post
I have a up only Ideal windless with about 75 feet of 5/16 BB chain and a 27 lb anchor. I am able to lower it by hand but it is heavy with 50' of chain out. Fortunately in my case, the Mississippi is seldom over 20' deep anyplace I want to anchor so I never experience the wieght of more than the anchor and 20' or less chain. It's a nuisance but not a show stopper. The Admiral can't do it though.It is run by a DC motor so I see no reason why reversing the polarity on the motor wouldn't make it run backward.
Capn Craig.... I have spoken to people who claim they have done that with an Ideal windlass.... I have an Ideal on our boat also. I had a discussion with one of the engineers at Ideal...they sell a kit that adds a switch, another solenoid and a harness to make the windlass operate in reverse.

We have 400' of chain on our 60 lb CQR.....and I am thinking about adding that kit to our windlass....
JAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 10:04 PM   #15
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,154
Currently, until I figure out what's wrong... My windlass is DOWN only.
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 10:28 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoF1 View Post
Currently, until I figure out what's wrong... My windlass is DOWN only.
Ain't boating fun
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 04:58 PM   #17
Guru
 
Shoalwaters's Avatar
 
City: Rodney Bay Lagoon
Country: St. Lucia, West Indies
Vessel Name: "Dragon Lady"
Vessel Model: DeFever 41
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 681
Gulfstar. Yes, in order to remove the cover you do have to unbolt the whole unit from the deck! The half dozen machine screws holding the cover on are then accessible. After that, undo the big nut and remove rope drum and gypsy. Then tilt the cover and slide it off over the drive shaft. My rope drum was frozen onto the shaft and removal would have destroyed the whole thing. I made two vertical cuts through the cover either side of the gypsy. the cover now lifts off leaving a small piece in place. One of the cuts is visible in the picture below.

I welded an aluminium strip onto each end of the cover. Stainless bolts with wing nuts make removal a breeze. My windlass sits on the bowsprit, so this was easy to arrange; yours might need a slightly different approach.

Meridian. The reversing solenoid lives in a little box under the foredeck. I have a pair of waterproof foot switches next to the windlass. They don't handle any significant current, but it's nice to have both hands free.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Cut + flange.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	111.3 KB
ID:	11912  
__________________
Mike
If all else fails, read the instructions
If it ain't broke, don't fix it
Shoalwaters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 08:45 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: Full Time Cruising East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Meridian
Vessel Model: Krogen-42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 756
I just got my Powerwinch cover off and the unit cleaned. It is a model 412 and looks just a little different that the one Mike has shown above. I have the original documentation which shows the all the parts. Shown at the top of the page "This is a permanent magnetic motor and is polorized for rotation. Reversing may cause motor gear to back off the threaded shaft and/or possible damage to motor or wiring"

What does "polorized to rotation" mean? I'll check tomorrow and see if it has the lock-out bearing
meridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 11:12 PM   #19
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
I believe it means it is not designed to be reversed. Motor damage and/or mechanical failure may occur.
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2012, 11:37 PM   #20
Guru
 
City: Full Time Cruising East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Meridian
Vessel Model: Krogen-42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 756
My thanks to Mike. I took mine apart, changed the non-reversing bearing, used a DPDT switch in place of the original, works good so far.
__________________

meridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012