Too Much Chain?

[Shrew]

Some things I would consider.

1) Chain allows you to set a shorter scope for the same relative depth, when compared to line

2) a chain rode maintains a very steep angle as opposed to line. Less chance of someone fouling your rode in their running gear.

3) Should someone's running gear get fouled in your rode, chain will not part, while line may part.

4) G4 or G7 may be more costly, but has a much higher strength to weight ratio.

5) Consider you anchor depth averages. I carry enough chain to anchor with all chain up to 10:1 in the deepest water of 95% of my anchorages. I've only ever used up to 50% of my chain length.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I have just about all nylon line (5/8ths) at over 425’.

Bought this when I was Alaska bound. Lots of places are 500’ deep and a few very close to shore. Shore being vertical rock at times. I always intended to have 200’ of 1/2” for an extension but never got around to it. Probably because there’s a 2nd rode in the anchor locker and never had it out.

I’ve always thought a long rode was a big safety factor. Never deployed the whole rode though. Anchored deep but not quite over 100’. So at 100’ I,ve got way over a 3-1 scope.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Shrew,
Most anchors perform quite well at 3-1 scope and many at less than that. See Steve’s Anchor Setting Vids.

I agree w all 5 of your points but don’t think any one or even all five warrant more than a boat length of chain. Opinions may vary ...... haha.

 

[Nightsky]

Aaa Sooo,
Like a Kedge eh?
Still see them on boats .. amazing.

Probably more like a Northill.

 

[Nightsky]

Doesn't it depends on what anchor you are using?

Totally agree! Danforth and Fortress anchors benefit from short length of chain with balance being rope. Reason being an all chain rode would keep the shank and flukes closer to parallel, making digging in of the flukes more difficult.

 

[Nomad Willy]

But when the chain pulls the shank down below the flukes .....

 

[Nomad Willy]

Probably more like a Northill.

I’ve seen a lot of Northills but most are home made.

There is a resemblance tween the Northils and the Kedge but I can’t imagine confusing the two.

 

[Shrew]

I have just about all nylon line (5/8ths) at over 425’.

Bought this when I was Alaska bound. Lots of places are 500’ deep and a few very close to shore. Shore being vertical rock at times. .

Great example how variations in environment can be significant and there is no 'one-fits-all' rule.

I've fished through the inside waterways. My theory would not apply to that area or many Fjords. Agreed , most of the water was 300 - 500 ft deep, and
yes, often very close to shore. Carrying 2,000 ft of chain is simply not feasible. And most electric windlasses would not be able to lift 300' of chain plus the anchor vertically.

 

[Knot Salted]

Uh oh...you can add 100 to the post count.

Yes you can[emoji38]

 

[aboatman]

It is about the only thing I hate about my boat is the chain locker. It is poorly designed. No access from above, you have 2 doors in the forward cabin. It is shallow which means every 40 feet I have to run down 2-3 flights of stairs (depending where I am) to knock over the pile then back up the stairs. When you have 250 feet out, it gets old quick.

A friend of mine converted his rode to all chain from the combination rode it was designed for. He had the same problem of the chain piling up and having to go inside and open the door to the anchor locker and knock the pile over.

(This is true, I saw it). He bought and installed a windshield wiper motor and arm in a position where he could push a button and the arm would knock the pile over remotely.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

A friend of mine converted his rode to all chain from the combination rode it was designed for. He had the same problem of the chain piling up and having to go inside and open the door to the anchor locker and knock the pile over.

(This is true, I saw it). He bought and installed a windshield wiper motor and arm in a position where he could push a button and the arm would knock the pile over remotely.

Interesting. Pic or video?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Boatnan wrote;
“He bought and installed a windshield wiper motor and arm in a position where he could push a button and the arm would knock the pile over remotely”.

Doubt if that lasted very long.

 

[psneeld]

does anyone really think that an all chain user with say 200 feet of chain doesnt have a bunch of nylon they could attach if necessary?

arguing all chain or combo is just a matter of degree for real cruisers...

those that see it one way or the other worry me....

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

does anyone really think that an all chain user with say 200 feet of chain doesnt have a bunch of nylon they could attach if necessary?

arguing all chain or combo is just a matter of degree for real cruisers...

those that see it one way or the other worry me....

Well I don't have any nylon with my 550 ft of chain.....

 

[BruceK]

Not all gypsys cope with combination rode,with Muir you need a new gypsy. Of course if you really needed to add the line you`d probably not mind recovering it by hand.

 

[FF]

On our boat we seldom enter coral areas , so prefer about 5 ft of chain and the rest nylon.

I am lazy so spending a half hour on the bow scrubbing chain every AM (to keep down the dead stuff in the mud stench) is of no interest.

AS an ex sailor its easy to take a turn on the windlass and figure 8 the line on deck as it comes aboard.

It soon dries out and doesn't bring a stink below. It is also instantly ready to be deployed.

To me the right amount of chain reaches from the anchor secure in its roller to a deck chain stopper , some distance before the windlass.

This means the line need not be tied off in transit , the stopper is simply kicked and the anchor deploys.

Yup, I'm lazy.

 

[aboatman]

Interesting. Pic or video?

Nope. He sold the boat and bought a Nordic Tug and moved to a different marina. I see him on Facebook but seldom in person.

My thought was, instead of using the wiper arm to knock the pile down by pushing a button every few seconds, he should have attached it to a loop with the chain funning through the loop and wired it up to move the loop back and forth when the windlass was running to distribute the chain evenly.

I didn't tell him, but my real thought was, he should never have replaced that chain/rope rode to all chain on that 29' Sea Ray in the first place.

 

[aboatman]

I don't worry about what type of rode (or anchor) other people use, I use what works for my boat in my cruising conditions. If someone asks, I am happy to give my opinion but some of us are anchoring in 15' of water and some in 250' of water. Some of us have 28' boats, some have 58' boats.

As for washing the rode, if it's covered in mud, I'll make an attempt to rinse it as I'm bringing it up. Otherwise, I just pull it with the windlass and it goes directly into the locker. No noticeable smell.

 

[Nomad Willy]

aboatman wrote;
“I didn't tell him, but my real thought was, he should never have replaced that chain/rope rode to all chain on that 29' Sea Ray in the first place.[/QUOTE]

Haven’t talked about how much chain for a long time.
My thoughts on the matter are on the new thread “How Much Chain”.

 

[FF]

For folks that chose chain , remember for effortless chain use it is part of a system so should be in a proper "chain locker."

This is sizes to the type and length of chain , so it will stow and not require a hand below helping it come up out of a pile.

Skeens as usual is" Da Book".

Skene's Elements of Yacht Design, Eighth Edition: Francis S. Kinney ...

https://www.amazon.com/Skenes-Elements-Yacht-Design-Eighth/dp/0396079687


Skene's Elements of Yacht Design, Eighth Edition [Francis S. Kinney] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Eighth Edition, m Fifth printing, published by Dodd, Mead Co.

Just as a box of fuel makes a really poor fuel tank,

a hole in the deck dropping chain into a pile below is also a poor almost unworkable system.

 

[Willin]

I always hear about anchoring in coral. I’ve been boating in tropics all my life... I hope no one on this forum is even considering to anchor in coral.

 

[FF]

With a choice of bow down or stern down , bow down will usually run faster than stern down , towing tons of water.

 

[OldDan1943]

Perhaps a visual observation will give you guidance when traveling at hull speed?
Of course that requires another person to make this observation and near flat water.
I do agree with FF, speed up, stern down. Then, you are dragging the swim platform in the water.

 

[Nomad Willy]

FF wrote;
“With a choice of bow down or stern down , bow down will usually run faster than stern down , towing tons of water.”

One could go backwards. Works fairly well w the Willard.

Dan I don’t see the swim platform in the act.
It’s the transom below the WL causing turbulence that’s the problem.

You can row a skiff faster backwards if the rower and the CG is far enough fwd to raise the transom largely or completely out of the water. Will be very difficult to row even half way straight.

But a trawler w CG too far fwd will be hard to steer even in calm water especially w small rudders.

 

[OldDan1943]

FF wrote;
“With a choice of bow down or stern down , bow down will usually run faster than stern down , towing tons of water.”

One could go backwards. Works fairly well w the Willard.

Dan I don’t see the swim platform in the act.
It’s the transom below the WL causing turbulence that’s the problem.

You can row a skiff faster backwards if the rower and the CG is far enough fwd to raise the transom largely out of the water.

But a trawler w CG too far fwd will be hard to steer even in calm water especially w small rudders.

Norman, it drags in the water.
Most recreational single engine trawlers have a big rudder.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Dan,
Most rec trawlers have small rudders as they are SD and designed to exceed or far exceed hull speed. That equates to going fast where big rudders aren’t an asset.

Who the ____ is Norman?

 

[OldDan1943]

Dan,
Most rec trawlers have small rudders as they are SD and designed to exceed or far exceed hull speed. That equates to going fast where big rudders aren’t an asset.

Who the ____ is Norman?

Spell check. LOL
Okay, I have a medium barn door for a rudder.