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Old 11-13-2011, 07:42 AM   #41
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RE: Too much anchor

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nomadwilly wrote:
You think I'd be fine w all that stuff in my face huh? *NO. Remember that I told you on my last boat I removed my bow rail?

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Sorry to hear that, Eric. I guess I can remove your name from my list.

*
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:05 AM   #42
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RE: Too much anchor

HaHa Walt. Since you're so fussy about your boat (and said as much) I'm assuming you would'nt want your boat going to SE Alaska and be tied to a float out in our delightful weather. It would'nt suffer any more than Willy of course but if you were to give me your boat I could make a concession to leave the bow rail on.*Some boats even look better w their bow rails than without. As an example Willy looks fine w her stanchions and cables. But when the varnish went south it would need to be replaced w my home made oil finish. Thrilled I'm sure you are w that thought but I'm not going to move back down south to find covered moorage for a nice boat. I may do that for other reasons though. Are you really making a list Walt? How many are on it? Would be fun to hear something about the potential recipients but you could'nt even tell us that after the deal was done. Thinking about this must be a lot of fun though.
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:21 PM   #43
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RE: Too much anchor

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:
Are you really making a list Walt? How many are on it?
*Yes, I have a list at the present time. 4 Forum members (they know who they are) and 5 people outside of the Forum. I have made no decision yet and will inform the Forum after the deal is done. (Should he or she want that.)

Keep in mind that my options are to:

1) Keep her

2)Sell her

3) Gift her

4) Satifsy everyone and scuttle her.
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:41 PM   #44
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RE: Too much anchor

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SeaHorse II wrote:

nomadwilly wrote:
Are you really making a list Walt? How many are on it?
*Yes, I have a list at the present time. 4 Forum members (they know who they are) and 5 people outside of the Forum. I have made no decision yet and will inform the Forum after the deal is done. (Should he or she want that.)

Keep in mind that my options are to:

1) Keep her

2)Sell her

3) Gift her

4) Satifsy everyone and scuttle her.



Scuttle! No no no!! I don't think this would make anybody happy!
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:43 PM   #45
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RE: Too much anchor

Now that you've said that I can say I think your bow rail looks good in the pic and if ther'es anything wrong w it it would be that it's visually a bit extensive as in too much bow rail. However it has an undeniable upside in that it makes the upper part of the cabin look smaller. The overhang at both ends just about eliminate the slight visual imperfection as does the raised fwd sheer. My Willy has a quite pronounced overhang in front of the cabin and I thought many times how bad the boat would look without it. But not seeing the view from the helm I can't comment on the view from there but bow rails and any other stuff above the line of sight above *the cap rail always does no good for visability.
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Old 11-13-2011, 12:58 PM   #46
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Too much anchor

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nomadwilly wrote:
.... but bow rails and any other stuff above the line of sight above *the cap rail always does no good for visability.
*Maybe you need your eyes checked, Eric, if you can't see stuff in the water with a 1-1/2" diameter bow rail ten or twelve feet out in front of you.* Maybe it's not the rail that's your problem :-) :-) :-)





-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 13th of November 2011 02:00:38 PM
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:41 PM   #47
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RE: Too much anchor

Quote:
Marin wrote:

nomadwilly wrote:
.... but bow rails and any other stuff above the line of sight above *the cap rail always does no good for visability.
*Maybe you need your eyes checked, Eric, if you can't see stuff in the water with a 1-1/2" diameter bow rail ten or twelve feet out in front of you.* Maybe it's not the rail that's your problem :-) :-) :-)





-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 13th of November 2011 02:00:38 PM


Well I for one am just pleased that this thread has not turned into another anchor debate as so many others seem to......... :biggrin:
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Old 11-13-2011, 06:47 PM   #48
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RE: Too much anchor

It is indeed my problem Marin and I deal w it by buying boats w good visibility and modifying the "stuff" on the bow to suit me.

Steve, *This is the anchor thread place and I think an anchor debate is entirely appropriate. Except I'd rather have a discussion than a debate. Right now we're supposed to be talking about anchors * .....specifically the size of anchors and the OP unique winch and anchor situation. Do'nt recall if he got what he needed. Perhaps he's been sit'in in front of his screen waiting to get back to anchors.
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:06 PM   #49
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RE: Too much anchor

This doesn't look like too much anchor for a 60-foot-or-something trawler (photographed today at the Vallejo Marina.
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:37 PM   #50
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RE: Too much anchor

Interesting winch. Interesting boat. Not impressed w the anchor.
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:41 AM   #51
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RE: Too much anchor

Quote:
Forkliftt wrote:
I am considering replacing my old plow with a new Manganese Delta. The 35# shows to be for a 42-50' powerboat. We are in sand or mud anytime we anchor. Will run 25' of chain and the balance 5/8 line. Having the windage a Sundeck has, I would probably prefer to go with the larger 45# version, but the mechanical windlass would make retrieval a chore. Thoughts??

Thanks Santa! He probably had a tough time getting the 44 pounder down the chimney. Next question, I'm going to go ahead and set up a new chain/ rode combination. Is 5/8 the best choice or should I consider going to 3/4" rode?
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Old 12-26-2011, 05:23 AM   #52
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RE: Too much anchor

"The 35# shows to be for a 42-50' powerboat. We are in sand or mud anytime we anchor. Will run 25' of chain and the balance 5/8 line"

It would be simpler to replace the 5/8 line with 1/2 or 7/16.

For any modern anchor to work the loads must be fed to the anchor slowly , without a big yank.

It takes far too much load to stretch 5/8 line for a tiny anchor to continue to hold.

Solution . heavier anchor or lighter anchor line. Both work.

But thin line IS more subject to chafe.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:42 PM   #53
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RE: Too much anchor

There is no such thing as "too much anchor"..... I always go larger than my boat requires...just feels safer that way, and I have never had a problem when anchored even in bad weather....
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:07 AM   #54
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RE: Too much anchor

Quote:
Forkliftt wrote:
I am considering replacing my old plow with a new Manganese Delta. The 35# shows to be for a 42-50' powerboat. We are in sand or mud anytime we anchor. Will run 25' of chain and the balance 5/8 line. Having the windage a Sundeck has, I would probably prefer to go with the larger 45# version, but the mechanical windlass would make retrieval a chore. Thoughts??

By "mechanical windlass" do you mean a manual windlass, not electric ?

That's what was on my boat when I bought it and yes, it was a PITA to raise the anchor.* Regardless of the anchor weight, the chain is pretty heavy.

It didn't take me long to decide to invest several boat dollars in an electric windlass, cable, switches, etc.* Installation took a few hours and now, it's just push a button and watch it come up.* Big improvement.* I've never had a problem with my bruce knockoff dragging, but I may go to the next bigger size just because I can and they are not expensive as far as boat parts go.
*
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:09 AM   #55
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Too much anchor

Quote:
rwidman wrote:
Quote:
I've never had a problem with my bruce knockoff dragging, but I may go to the next bigger size just because I can and they are not expensive as far as boat parts go.
*Ron, if you are looking for a new anchor, it might be worth taking a look here..(below)..as someone else on the forum came up with the following contact details, suggesting SARCAs might now be available over there.* You could end up with something better than a Bruce, and without the weight penalty.* Think of the bragging rights if you ended up one of the few with one in North America on the forum.* Besides, it would be nice to have some company.

Gemma wrote....

I have no affiliation Sarca but Im told you can check out some Sarca anchors in the USA for yourself if you wish at

Joseph B. H. Smith
Director, Special Projects
SEACOR Environmental Products LLC (SEP)
9520 - 10th Avenue South, Suite 175,
Seattle WA 98108-5067 USA
-------------------------------------------------------
PH: +1-206-378-4101; FX: +1-206-378-4103
Mobile: +1-206-423-2661; SKYPE: sepseattle1
Email: jbhsmith@ckor.com
SEP Web Site: www.seacor-env.com
Corporate Web Site: www.seacorholdings.com STRENGTH IN DIVERSITY

PS, I hope we haven't lead you up the garden path - maybe a phonecall is the way to go, as having just looked, there is nothing about any anchor on their website.

PB


-- Edited by Peter B on Friday 17th of February 2012 06:22:23 AM
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Old 02-18-2012, 08:09 PM   #56
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RE: Too much anchor

Hi Peter B, Sorry about the Seacore contact it will be going on the website next week,yes they do have some of our anchors instock,just for the record Peter has no association with our company Anchor Right Australia,don't even no the guy, a little bit sad when somone tries to enlighten the market to new product, I thought that was what your discussions and the bennefits of the forum were about.

It's great to see we have a happy customer but we are not new kids on the block and have been around for at least 16 years, long before new generation discussions, we just keep a low profile in your part of the world as until now have never been interested in exporting.

FF Surley you are aware new technoldgy will always be advancing product whatever it may be, no we are not tonka and we have been as mentioned around now for approx 16 years, I am sure I wont be around to see if new anchor designs move ahead of our adge old designs, at the end of the day we all have our own take on anchor performance and the end result will allways be how well it works for you.

In the light of recent ongoing anchor discussions it is now become a testy conversation, but for the bennefit of all, yachties will say good things about the equipment they use, if have experienced problems with anchors not holding then one that does creates a bit of passion for the design, end result you are getting feed back from a fellow yachtie and not from the manufacturer.

All good.

Regards Rex.
Ceo of Anchor right Australia
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:41 AM   #57
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RE: Too much anchor

"There is no such thing as "too much anchor".....

I am going to find out , while our low profile 50 ft boat has 1/3 the frontal area of many 3 story 35fters , and we almost always anchor out , and our 60 Danforth, CQR and Bruce have yer to fail.

WE purchased a 60KG British forged Bruce , and will see how well our Hyd windlass likes recovering that puppy.

In New England we frequently anchor INSIDE a mooring field so are concerned with really short scope, without going to a Bahama Moore just for an overnight.

"Surley you are aware new technoldgy will always be advancing product whatever it may be"

Sure but anchors are a matter of size , because after penetrating , its fluke area that resists pulling out.

Projected area does the work , not some "different to be different" shape.

Shape might create differences in how rapidly the anchor buries , but 2 ft or 10 ft makes little difference to most cruisers.

The anchoring mistakes I see when cruising is usually a watch fob anchor (to Mfg. Spec.) a fat heavy rode with zero stretch made for an anchor 5X the size of the one in use.
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Old 02-20-2012, 05:44 AM   #58
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Too much anchor

FF Wrote;

Sure but anchors are a matter of size, because after penetrating, its fluke area that resists pulling out.
Projected area does the work, not some "different to be different" shape.

Basically that is what Peter B is on about, if you look at the Super Sarcas design is not simply shape that makes the difference, it has a variety of various concepts, I will try to explain, the extended chisel like toe is turned down, this is attached to the widest holding area of any anchor fluke on the market with cutting edges running the full length of the fluke, the chisel toe is able to penetrate very hard surfaces and is equally up to it in very soft substrate because of the large holding area offered, even when shallow set. But how well would it hold when buried deep, well that answers itself.

Further, you will notice that Super Sarca carries its ballast weight across the rear of the fluke, this configuration is unlike any predecessor before it, if you care to view our video you will also notice that Super Sarca is again different in the way it is orientated, toe entry from the moment strain is applied the Rhode.
Now combine all of the above, when the toe starts to penetrate, chisel toe is low resistant cutting edges run front to rear of its broad fluke. The ballast weight at the rear is now being lifted and becomes an absolute driving force, burying the anchor extremely fast. S/Sarcas design is not some difference to be different.

The fluke is a low projector convex design that does not plough and has other major benefits; it will turn a full 360 degrees on the spot even when shallow set, further, the convex design doesnt bring up a bucket of mud adding extreme weight to the windless.
The slotted pulling shank is designed with much added strength to cover for any weakness under strain, this has found to be very useful in giving you the best chance of retrieval, they are proof tested beyond their requirements and certified with Super High Holding Power certification.

This is why Peter B has stated he only needs one anchor for all his needs, Super Sarca was a worlds first as a purpose built combination anchor, to those that deploy the S/Sarca will verify the design lends itself to many types of substrate with exceptional holding power. S/Sarca is not new; it has been around for some 16 years.

Make no mistake I am not saying to forget about a second anchor as that is good sense for a number of reasons but the S/Sarca has stood the test of time; there are literally thousands of them in Australia and N.Z.

You mentioned on the other thread rollers, Tonka and SARCA in the same sentence, ironic as the Tonka was*so well built they lasted and now have become a collectors item, I come from a family of thirteen and only owned a wooden home-made look alike.

I could not care a less about marketing in you part of the world but the opportunity has popped up by Seacor contacting me, we are so busy with the market share we have here, my son is interested in the USA not me, but I must say if we are going to be judgmental of a product then we should quantify ourselves and the only way you can do that is by experiencing the product, anchor in this case.

FF you appear to have substantial influence on this forum and are highly regarded for your comments, rightly so and it would be fitting if you are interested to trial one of our anchors for a full season, or anyone for that matter, I will give you a one hundred per cent money back guarantee if the product doesnt live up to our claims.

It just may be, we can make your anchoring more reliable and safer.

Joe Smith from Seacor emailed me today explaining part of their business has been sold so the web site is getting a makeover, the S/Sarca anchor and excels will appear on their site in the near future, you are fortunate to have such a good company in North America, make no mistake Joe will not be ordering container loads of anchors and making claims to flood the market as we have just witnessed, sadly that company has created a lot of negativity for any future anchor design, we should encourage new development as an anchor could very well one day save your life.

Joe has the steady as she gos approach and will rely purely on feedback from his customers as in satisfaction, performance and Quality, not claims. Joe also stated he has already sold two thirds of the stock.

Incidentally our entire product range is made in Australia out of quality Australian steel, so FF that lump of steel eventually pressed into an anchor doesnt equate to the profit you suggested, there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow unless you manufacture in China.

If you have any questions please ask, if you want you can do some research on our web site, method of field testing, proof testing holding power certs its all there. www.anchorright.com.au it should all make interesting discussion should you except my offer.

Regards
Rex.
CEO of Anchor Right Australia.
.




-- Edited by Rex on Monday 20th of February 2012 06:52:11 AM
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:59 AM   #59
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RE: Too much anchor

Rex

Welcome, I hope you didn't step into it mate, but:
<ul>[*]What is quality Australia steel as opposed to say that from other places?[*]Where is your forging or plate layup*done?[*]With 100s of millions of tons per year of Australian iron ore and coal going to China to make steel, please don't fall into the refrain "we don't use steel from China."[*]You make no mention of chain, windlass or proper anchor size which to some is more relevant than anchor brand.[*]What part of Australia are you located?[*]Last but not least, what size of Sarca should be used on a 130,000# moderate wind shape blue water trawler?[/list]Thanks for entering the fray
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:18 AM   #60
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Too much anchor

Sunchaser Wrote;

What is quality Australia steel as opposed to say that from other places?
Where is your forging or plate layup done?
With 100s of millions of tons per year of Australian iron ore and coal going to China to make steel, please don't fall into the refrain "we don't use steel from China."
You make no mention of chain, windlass or proper anchor size which to some is more relevant than anchor brand.
What part of Australia are you located?
Last but not least, what size of Sarca should be used on a 130,000# moderate wind shape blue water trawler


Hi Sunchaser, a fray you say, I feel as if I just opened the door and have black eye.

Have no idea the quality of steel from other places, let me rephrase, manufactured in Australia using quality steel, in saying that yes we do use quality Australian steel commonly known as bis plate -bisaloy designed and made in Australia approx. 4 times stronger than the highest grade of mild steel with great flexing properties.

Forging, if you class filling the fluke head of the Excel with molten cast as forging, its done at a local foundry and poured at 16 hundred degrees.

Never mentioned using steel form China, not sure, we may when it comes to mild steel, dont know where it comes from, I recall saying we do not manufacture in China.

Chain, rope, Rhode not interested, making designing anchors is what we do best; we do not supply any type or combination of anchor Rhodes, I will leave those discussions up to you as you all have a different* take on it, the combination of chain size, rope whether you couple two anchors together, yes I have my take on that but I dont want another black eye so will leave it up to what works best for you.

Disagree, if an anchor design performs better than another brand, then*that is relevant,*then selecting the correct*chain, rope, or chain and*rope together will give you better performance overhall.**


I come from Victoria, nestled up in the Dandenongs.

I take it you are saying your boat weight is 130 ton, if so Iwould recomend a 120 KG Super Sarca.

Mate if you ever come over here drop in, it would be great to meet you and*give you tour on just how we go about our business.

You are looking at around 150 ton on the left running two150 K.G. Super Sarca's and the outer reef yacht on the right 66 ton, runs a 88 K.G. Excel

Sunchaser, I hope I have covered your queries, but to save a lot of discussion you might find researching our site interesting, www.anchorright.com.au
Regards.
Rex.
CEO of Anchor Right Australia.

Sorry but the photos I posted won't appear.



-- Edited by Rex on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 03:25:55 AM



-- Edited by Rex on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 03:29:18 AM


-- Edited by Rex on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 03:47:15 AM
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