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Old 07-10-2012, 10:50 PM   #21
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I pin lock the anchor chain when underway and the anchor is self deploying.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:54 PM   #22
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The two legs of our V-bridle snubber go to our heavily backed deck cleats on the foredeck as do our mooring lines.
Ah yes, V-bridle snubber lines. I attach them on the bollard. Here I am, gathering the lines in preparation for moving to a different anchorage.

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Old 07-11-2012, 07:55 AM   #23
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I note in Marin`s windlass pic, a line secured to the cleat of the windlass casing. It is very convenient to use it,but I`ve been warned against using it long term to secure say,a mooring line on strength grounds, so usually avoid using it, even for the snubber line when anchored. Any thoughts/experiences? BruceK
I installed the windlass (it's a replacement for the factory installed manual windlass) and the cleat myself. The entire area is factory reinforced, about 1 1/2" thick, and I added large fender washers under the cleat bolts.



I use the cleat to secure the anchor underway as shown and also to cleat the rode while anchored. I'm pretty confident in its strength. Remember, the load is very close to perpendicular to the mounting bolts.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:27 AM   #24
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Ok guys thanks for the photos and other ideas. I do have one of the chain locks off one of my dads boat that will stop deployment of chain it is very heavy duty and you release it with a push of the foot and it flips up my dad would never have wanted a self launching anchor. I think using that and a quick dash to the bow to push the release before i am to the anchor spot then from the helm i can with the windlass drop the hook right where i want it. As i do cruise alone alot being single and my girlfriend has other things to do.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:43 PM   #25
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What I mean by self launching is that when you release the pin keeping the anchor secure while underway, the anchor still stays in place. And when you activate the windlass with the foot switch to release some chain, the anchor starts to deploy without having to nudge or push it forward.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:55 PM   #26
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What I mean by self launching is that when you release the pin keeping the anchor secure while underway, the anchor still stays in place. And when you activate the windlass with the foot switch to release some chain, the anchor starts to deploy without having to nudge or push it forward.
Same here.

This photo shows the bow pulpit hardware which allows the self-launch a little more clearly. The forward stainless section pivots allowing the anchor to release as the chain is extended. The white stainless cable is my safety tether which I release as I approach my anchorage.

My wired lower helm switch and wireless windlass remote allow activation from anywhere on the boat. A raw water washdown hose in a flush-mount recessed canister at the bow completes the system.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:35 PM   #27
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To launch my anchor, first must release the ratchet lever to unlock the windlass, give the chain a foot of slack, and then push the anchor off the anchor roller. Raising and lowering the anchor can be controlled at the windlass via foot pedals or in the pilothouse with switches.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:50 PM   #28
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Our Bruce was not self-deploying because of the angle of the boat pulpit, the depth of the bronze channel that comprises the backbone of the pulpit, and angle at which the chain went back to the windlass wildcat, which was straight back down the pulpit channel. As opposed to the photos from FlyWright and others where the pulpit is more level and the chain slants up from the pulpit and thus holds the anchor "nose down" in a position where it is inclined to slide forward when the rode is slacked off. On our boat, the Bruce lay back with its shank right down in the bottom of the bronze pulpit channel. So deploying it required it to be pushed forward a bit. It wasn't a problem, it wasn't inconvenient, and it played no role in our decision to get rid of the anchor a few years later.

But the Rocna on the same pulpit with the wildcat of the new windlass at the same height as the old windlass balances quite differently than the Bruce. This was apparently a design decision on the part of Peter Smith, and the result is that the anchor starts to deploy the moment the rode starts to feed out, even on our boat with its angled-up pulpit and straight-back chain angle. It's a nice feature and we prefer it to what we had before with the Bruce.

When we bought the boat it has a big Danforth knock-off on the pulpit (which was a good choice for the boat's previous home of SFO Bay), and while we replaced it within two days of getting the boat to Bellingham, it wasn't self-deploying either.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:49 PM   #29
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Marin, I think your windlass cleat would be plenty strong enough for any anchoring you would probably do in the next 10 years. And I'll bet your winch is fastened to the foredeck as securely as your anchoring cleat on the deck.

Rwidman, Do you mean the load is at right angles to your cleat bolts? And do you have a short chain and cleat your rode w the nylon line part of the rode? Cleat looks a bit small but 1 1/2" of backing sounds very secure. I think my anchor cleat is a four bolt 14" cleat of the same type as you have. I have two separate 12" mooring line cleats on each side of the anchor cleat in the middle. My Willy weighs more but I'll bet your boat has more windage. Very tidy installation compared to mine. If I ever go to chain rode I'll prolly have a windlass just about like that. I feel I need a wash down system first. And the need for a new ground tackle system may never happen.
I was look'in at those Troll boats before I decided to keep Willy. I love the wheelhouse windows.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:53 PM   #30
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Marin, I think your windlass cleat would be plenty strong enough for any anchoring you would probably do in the next 10 years. And I'll bet your winch is fastened to the foredeck as securely as your anchoring cleat on the deck.

Rwidman, Do you mean the load is at right angles to your cleat bolts? And do you have a short chain and cleat your rode w the nylon line part of the rode? Cleat looks a bit small but 1 1/2" of backing sounds very secure. I think my anchor cleat is a four bolt 14" cleat of the same type as you have. I have two separate 12" mooring line cleats on each side of the anchor cleat in the middle. My Willy weighs more but I'll bet your boat has more windage. Very tidy installation compared to mine. If I ever go to chain rode I'll prolly have a windlass just about like that. I feel I need a wash down system first. And the need for a new ground tackle system may never happen.
I was look'in at those Troll boats before I decided to keep Willy. I love the wheelhouse windows.
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Yes, I have 30' of 5/16" chain and 180' or so of 5/8" line. As the boat rides at anchor, the rode pulls front to back on the cleat. The force is not trying to pull the cleat out of the boat, it would be trying to pull it sideways.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:05 PM   #31
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Marin, I think your windlass cleat would be plenty strong enough for any anchoring you would probably do in the next 10 years. And I'll bet your winch is fastened to the foredeck as securely as your anchoring cleat on the deck.
We prefer a v-bridle snubber to a single line snubber so securing one of the snubber lines to the windlass cleat would actually be an awkward setup as opposed to each line coming through a bow hawse and to a deck cleat right there.

The windlass and teak mounting block are secured with long bronze rods threaded at each end. The rods run thorugh the windlass base, a base plate I had made by PYI, the laminated teak block, the deck and a pair of heavy stainless backing plates under the deck. The whole works is "sandwiched" together with the fasteners on both ends of the four bronze rods.

In addition we had a heavy stainless brace fabricated that connects the front of the teak block to the heavy angle brace that supports the back end of the pulpit. This prevents the block from "leaning" forward under the weight of deploying or retrieving the anchor.

When we bought the boat the original windlass was secured the same way with four rods but the backing "plates" were thin teak strips and there was no forward brace. As we learned when we were checking out the boat in California prior to the sea trial and surveys, when the anchor was pulled in there was enough play in the windlass/block mounting that the back of the block would lift up off the deck by a quarter inch or so. We corrected that after taking delivery of the boat--- that's when we had the forebrace made up--- but the new windlass is secured much more solidly now.

But we still don't put any significant strain on the windlass or pulpit when setting or breaking out the anchor. We put that load on the deck cleats. And once we're at anchor, there is still no load on the pulpit or windlass since the snubber lines are secured to the deck cleats. There are no leverage issues with the deck cleats where there would be with the cleat on top of the windlass.

But you're probably right, the thing is probably plenty strong enough for what we do. But since we don't need to use it there is no need to test the theory.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:45 PM   #32
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The IG 36 has an enclosed box type structure on which the windlass is mounted. Last year the whole structure, cracked, rotted, with signs of past patching, had to be rebuilt,suggesting a windlass puts out substantial loads.
To get a fair run for the snubber to the mooring cleat, without wearing the fresh paint off the aft top edge of the structure, I screwed a short length of half round s/steel along its edge.BruceK
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:32 PM   #33
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New to the trawler world, but have been anchoring in the Caribbean for 30 years with every type of anchor. Now that everything that I own is at the end of my anchor rode I have the best, with the 2nd best on the other roller. Read up on the Rocna. Science has entered the anchor world. The CQR plows the bottom so one can plant sea grass. The Bruce is great for catching big rocks.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:26 PM   #34
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The IG 36 has an enclosed box type structure on which the windlass is mounted. Last year the whole structure, cracked, rotted, with signs of past patching, had to be rebuilt,suggesting a windlass puts out substantial loads.
To get a fair run for the snubber to the mooring cleat, without wearing the fresh paint off the aft top edge of the structure, I screwed a short length of half round s/steel along its edge.BruceK
I think some of the rot issues might also be related to how the water and plant debris is contained during the anchoring process. This was a concern with mine when I converted from a Powerwinch with rode over the top of my pulpit box to a windlass on top of the box with rode passing through the box.



The box is secured by four 5/8" threaded rods which run from the top stainless plate to my 12"x10" stainless backing plate. I had a 4 inch diameter stainless tube fabricated and welded to the top mounting plate. This sealed tube runs through the box and backing plate to both guide the rode and contain the water and debris. Three additional pulpit mounting bolts attach to the bow caprail. I use the washdown whenever needed and have noticed no problems so far, but I'm keeping an eye on it.

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Old 07-13-2012, 06:51 AM   #35
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New to the trawler world, but have been anchoring in the Caribbean for 30 years with every type of anchor. Now that everything that I own is at the end of my anchor rode I have the best, with the 2nd best on the other roller. Read up on the Rocna. Science has entered the anchor world. The CQR plows the bottom so one can plant sea grass. The Bruce is great for catching big rocks.
Many of us did...we just don't believe the marketing hype...we believe in real world experiences which are all over the map suggesting no clear cut science...new or not.

Not talking for everyone here...just passing along a condensed generalization.

Use the word best with anchors and you will ...well...I'll let you find out the hard way...
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Old 07-13-2012, 08:31 AM   #36
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The Lofrans Tigres I installed 2 years ago, the 45# Delta is self launching once the rope is off. There are controls at the bow and on the flybridge. I usually remove the safety rope approaching the anchorage and lower from the flybridge.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:54 PM   #37
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Capt. Paul,
Rocna rules! We have been trying to purge all anchor brands from the forum that are'nt but many (most all) of us have dug out little flukes into the sand and resisted such direction. It's the anchor on the Windhorse and one could hardly doubt the wisdom of the men that brought a boat w such a leading edge of technology .... I mean ... Just look at thing ... It puts all the rest of us into the dark age. I was temped to touch one of the Windhorse decendents w the idea that some great maritime knowledge would befall me and perhaps I could rise above other mariners and leap tall masts w a single bound. In w the new and out w the old. Full speed ahead for science is here and will relieve us from ....... well you prolly get the picture and if you need any more information to this end ... wallow in the Trawler Forum archives and get every opinion imaginable. We let anybody in the archives too.
Seriously Paul the "science" your'e talking is pure hype and advertising. I'm not doubting the Rocna's a good anchor though. Essentially every anchor designer makes what he thinks is an improvement (or 2 or 3) on his favorite anchor, gives it a name and tries to market same. The only anchor designer that truly did anything scientific is the Frenchman that designed the Spade. He experimented (w scientific method I believe) and found that the concave surface generates the greatest amount of drag or resistance. Mushroom anchors and many others arrived at the same conclusion but probably not very scientifically. The Rocna is/was a rip-of/copy/decendant of the German anchor called the Bugel. But if you really want an anchor whose design is most scientific look at the XYZ. But as I've said before the greatest variable in anchoring without a doubt is the bottom conditions where the anchor is placed. How it's placed is another topic.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:59 PM   #38
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Steve it looks like you have doors that open to the anchor locker. For chain that looks like a really smart set-up.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:13 PM   #39
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The Rocna is/was a rip-of/copy/decendant of the German anchor called the Bugel.
In the interest of accuracy, not to start another this-vs-that debate, the Rocna has some significant differences from the older Bugel. Peter Smith wrote an article way, way back about how he arrived at the Rocna's design. He had no qualms about crediting the other designs that he incorporated.

First of all, his initial motivation was to create an anchor strictly for his own use on his own boat that would perform more reliably than what he had been using in the southwestern Pacific. So (he wrote) he looked at other anchor designs and combined elements which he thought made good sense. So the rollbar and automatic on-its-side positioning came from the Bugel, the spade fluke design from something else (don't remember what), and the basic shank design from something else (don't remember what).

He combined these elements and then made changes that he felt would improve the overall performance of the combination. For example he came up with the "skid plate" idea for where the rollbar is welded to the sides of the fluke to improve the leverage when the anchor is on its side and pulled by the rode to knife the fluke sideways down into the bottom.

He had the resulting design fabricated and found that it worked the way he'd hoped on his own boat. IIRC, it was only after people he met during his sailing that inquired about the anchor on his bow and then expressed an interest in getting one of their own that he began to think about perhaps creating a business to fabricate and sell the design.

Now how the anchor and its development are positioned or spun today I have no idea. We got ours years ago, it works as advertised, and other than discussions on this forum I pay no attention whatsoever to anchors anymore beause I don't need to. So I'm not up on how the Rocna is being promoted or positioned today by the current owers of the brand.

But in the begining way back when, Smith made no bones about where he got the design ideas that he combined with ideas of his own to create what became the Rocna.
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Old 07-13-2012, 11:00 PM   #40
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Steve it looks like you have doors that open to the anchor locker. For chain that looks like a really smart set-up.
Thanks, that would be nice but they are two lockers which hold some lines, floats and the wash down valve and hose. Access to the chain locker is through a door in the fwd cabin.
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