Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-18-2017, 07:42 AM   #1
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,593
For Those With Bruce Anchors

My second anchor is a Bruce/claw.

Interesting video. Though I am not quite sure what the summation is on this?

__________________
Advertisement

menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 08:12 AM   #2
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,635
Simple, use 5:1 scope and you'll be fine. I anchored in all sorts of places with a right size Bruce and my drags were always on shorter scopes. The Bruce was replaced with a bigger Vulcan which has proven to be a real short scope workhorse. What is your primary anchor?

Further, I have never found a need for a backup anchor. Mine is a Fortress 55. Put a coat of Galvinizing on your Bruce and it will look good (unused too) forever!
__________________

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 08:16 AM   #3
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,682
My second anchor is an original Bruce 66 lbs. Usually works very well. I don't anchor less than 7:1 and avoid all the drama.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 09:52 AM   #4
Wannabe
 
Britannia's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 764
My primary is a 110lb (genuine) Bruce with 350' of 1/2" chain. Like Ted, I always have 7:1 scope or better unless depth doesn't permit.

Richard
Britannia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 10:10 AM   #5
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
What is your primary anchor?
75# CQR plow.
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 10:14 AM   #6
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
75# CQR plow.
Doing it "retro" (old school).

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 10:28 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
75# CQR plow.
Possibly too small an anchor? HOPCAR could have the right size anchor to you before you depart. May I suggest a Vulcan?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 11:32 AM   #8
Guru
 
Old deckhand's Avatar
 
City: Sitka
Country: Same
Vessel Model: Transpacific Marine Eagle 32
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 519
I have used a 33 and 66 Bruse with all chain. Both found the infamous Bruce rock and failed to hold even in almost calm conditions. Congrats on a great video!
Old deckhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 11:32 AM   #9
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
75# CQR plow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Doing it "retro" (old school).

Ted
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Possibly too small an anchor? HOPCAR could have the right size anchor to you before you depart. May I suggest a Vulcan?
We've cruised 5 seasons in the Bahamas from Mayaguana to the Abacos. We had a cqr that worked well in grass where the Bruce didn't. We now have a Rocna that works better than the cqr in more varied conditions. 75lb anchor for a 53' boat, I'd upsize.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 11:46 AM   #10
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,747
IF you don't have a real Danforth

a Bruce works almost as well, and is frequently easier to get on the bow roller.
FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 11:47 AM   #11
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,593
You guys and your anchors!
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 12:59 PM   #12
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,635
Menzies

You most likely will do just fine with what you have. Raising the bash the Bruce specter is enticing though for those of us that have successfully anchored time and again with a right sized Bruce on decent scope.

Check out the other anchor thread about dragging a 45# Manson and now the owner is wondering why he removed a perfectly good larger Delta.

So long as submergible Go Pros exist any anchor can have its day in short scope court.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 02:19 PM   #13
Guru
 
menzies's Avatar
 
City: Jacksonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: SONAS
Vessel Model: Grand Alaskan 53
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Menzies

You most likely will do just fine with what you have. Raising the bash the Bruce specter is enticing though for those of us that have successfully anchored time and again with a right sized Bruce on decent scope.

Check out the other anchor thread about dragging a 45# Manson and now the owner is wondering why he removed a perfectly good larger Delta.

So long as submergible Go Pros exist any anchor can have its day in short scope court.
Oh, I have no concerns at all regarding the tackle I have.

Just thought some would find the video interesting. And was wondering what was proven by it, to me nothing much at all.

Any anchor will lift with too short a scope, and who is to say what will hold with an engine going 3000 RPM in reverse!
menzies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 03:15 PM   #14
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 15,245
I'll tackle the original question.

There's two parts of the test. 1. The short scope capability 2. The 3 knot tidal reversal. Or Veering test to the extreme.

1. Short scope performance is probably little known here as most are afraid to do it. The significance of Steve's test is that it's clear that the Bruce and a number of other anchors do have remarkable short scope performance. I have anchored from 2-1 to 3-1 in many anchorages in Alaska and when I speak of it here many are usually horrified that I would even try such a "stunt" and say that they would'nt anchor ever at less than 7-1.
One of the great things foruns do is expand our knowledge, opinions and come much closser tp knowing what others are doing. The Bruce has had a good rep for short scope for 40 years. But seeing it in action beats dock talk big time. Thank you Steve.

2. Steve's reversal test dos'nt show us much about what we may come up against as this violent of a reversal is very unlikely to happen. Gentle reversals are far far more likely to happen. That said the test shows some anchors can cope w it. That in itself is amazing. But the apparent causes give much opportunity for analysis. The Danforths dragged on their side! Something I would have thought impossible and points out the very important role the stock plays in the Danforth type anchor. The Supreme readily clogged w "salad" and that just about eliminated it's effectiveness.

So I think a great deal was learned and Steve showed us it was easy to uncover unknowns and show us there is always more to learn.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 03:25 PM   #15
Guru
 
Ken E.'s Avatar
 
City: Bellingham WA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 700
I'd like to hear what Nomad Willy and Eye Schulman might have to say on the video, being anchor gurus. Seems like bottom type is a big part of the equation in terms of scope required to stay put.
Ken E. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 03:49 PM   #16
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken E. View Post
... Seems like bottom type is a big part of the equation in terms of scope required to stay put.
That was my point in post #9. The Bahamas, where Menzies is heading, all have their own set of challenges; sand, grass, thin layers of sand over hard pan, rocky areas plus you're usually anchoring in depths less than 15' . A 5-1 scope is not very much even adding for the height of your bow. We rarely put out less than 100' and 125' is more the norm. The bottoms aren't very sticky there.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 04:16 PM   #17
Guru
 
Ken E.'s Avatar
 
City: Bellingham WA
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Hatt Trick
Vessel Model: 45' Hatteras Convertible
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
That was my point in post #9. The Bahamas, where Menzies is heading, all have their own set of challenges; sand, grass, thin layers of sand over hard pan, rocky areas plus you're usually anchoring in depths less than 15' . A 5-1 scope is not very much even adding for the height of your bow. We rarely put out less than 100' and 125' is more the norm. The bottoms aren't very sticky there.
In the PNW and Alaska, and on mostly mud bottoms, it is rare that I'll use more than 3:1 scope with a 66 lb. Lewmar (Bruce knockoff), 3/8 all-chain rode. Maybe more if the wind comes up, but it would have to be blowing pretty hard to go to 5:1. I've always stayed put using this formula, 15 years in this Hatteras and with my earlier boats. On hard pan or rock though, more scope would certainly pay dividends.
Ken E. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 05:18 PM   #18
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,099
Very timely this thread: I got very tired of plowing up my favourite anchorages, trying to get my old Delta to take a set so a friend got this for me, 30kg Trefoil (Italian Bruce clone) in 316 stainless. It's now the shiniest thing on my boat (the only shiny thing on my boat) and here it lurks, awaiting its first test.

This photo will look just right to our Aussie members, for the rest I apologize.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0962.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	95.2 KB
ID:	61740  
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
What are we offended about today?
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 05:34 PM   #19
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,682
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
My second anchor is a Bruce/claw.

Interesting video. Though I am not quite sure what the summation is on this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
75# CQR plow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by menzies View Post
You guys and your anchors!
Hey you were the one who dug the hole, we just pushed you in.

Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2017, 07:25 PM   #20
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 11,878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken E. View Post
... Seems like bottom type is a big part of the equation in terms of scope required to stay put.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
That was my point in post #9. The Bahamas, where Menzies is heading, all have their own set of challenges; sand, grass, thin layers of sand over hard pan, rocky areas plus you're usually anchoring in depths less than 15' . A 5-1 scope is not very much even adding for the height of your bow. We rarely put out less than 100' and 125' is more the norm. The bottoms aren't very sticky there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken E. View Post
In the PNW and Alaska, and on mostly mud bottoms, it is rare that I'll use more than 3:1 scope with a 66 lb. Lewmar (Bruce knockoff), 3/8 all-chain rode. Maybe more if the wind comes up, but it would have to be blowing pretty hard to go to 5:1. I've always stayed put using this formula, 15 years in this Hatteras and with my earlier boats. On hard pan or rock though, more scope would certainly pay dividends.
OK, I have one of those dreaded Lewmar Claw Bruce knockoffs. Mine is only 33 lbs/15 kg on my 24000 Lb 34 LRC. Mine has served me well in the SF Bay and CA Delta where I operate but YMMV.

Great info in these 3 posts, IMO. The bottom matters...and in my area, depths less than 15 ft grow grass and weeds and I avoid anchoring in them except for the MOST protected coves. Fortunately we have LOTS of semi-sticky mud that to me seems just right. Just sticky enough to hold the anchor but it's relatively easy to wash off. Often, I don't even have to rinse it.

If you're not bare-handing the rode, why not put out lots? Aside from crowded conditions, I let it a lot hang out there...never less than 100 ft.

I frequently anchor near Alcatraz Island facing the Golden Gate for Fleet Week in San Francisco. It's typically 50 ft deep and the place is packed with boats of all kinds. Several times I have anchored there at 3:1 without a concern. The thing about crowds at events like this is that some know how to anchor and, as I found out, some don't. I was anchored in about 40 ft with 240 out - about a 5:1 scope. That's when a 65 ft Hatteras landed on my bow like a pickle on a fork. My anchor held me AND him in about 15K of wind on an opposite direction ebb flow.

Since then I have anchored overnight with my boat plus a rafted 40+ ft trawler (40 DeFever and 42 GB) on my single claw without dragging. I will admit to laying out 7:1 for raftups and other times when room allows. Why not run the windlass a few more seconds? It's not costing me anything.

In my area, on my boat and IMO, the claw is king. But then again, YMMV...
__________________

FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012