Supreme Wack Job

[Nomad Willy]

Some grinding took off the roll bar.

When I bought the Supreme it was advertised as a 15lb anchor. It weighed 18lbs. Now it weighs 15lbs. The roll bar was heavier than I though it would be. As a result the CG is considerably lower. The only way one can make it drag is to stand it up vertical and tip it backwards away from the fluke. Very unlikely for the anchor to end up vertical and as soon as one started to back down it would be on it's side. Should work but then it's anchoring and surprises abound.

I have another modification planned that should take the place of the roll bar and force the anchor to orient itself properly. Very little weight and drag.

I want to try it as seen in the pics before further modification. I don't want to add stuff and then want to come back where I was before. I'm going to use the little cable as seen in the last pic to help w the penetration. If it won't penetrate deeper that the stock anchor w the roll bar then my mod is pointless.

 

[Larry M]

Eric: You really should change your forum name to manyanchors.

 

[hmason]

OMG, you removed the carry handle.

 

[Moonstruck]

Eric, you are going to wind up with a Boss.

 

[markpierce]

Eric: You really should change your forum name to manyanchors.

I've even addressed him "manyanchors" a couple times.

 

[N4712]

Maybe I should do that to my little supreme on my dusky, it hasn't been impressing me.. Maybe I need a Rocna...

 

[BruceK]

I always like the blue paint job hiding the signs of modification, I call it "Eric`s blue" This time the missing roll bar is a dead giveaway.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Larry and Mark,
In the past many wanted me to change my forum name back to nomadwilly. I didn't because I had been manyboats for a time and thought that would be confusing. I noticed it was confusing when some had musical avatars. Our names and avatars identify us and IMO a lot of stability is our friend.

"manyanchors? ... I only have 6.

hmason,
The handle could be had cheap.

Moonstruck,
Indeed it does look much like the Boss. And for good reasons. Both are Mansons. And so far all Ive don is remove some of it. I set out to design an anchor that would be better than a roll bar anchor and so did Manson. Or perhaps it was much the same for Anchor Right Australia re the Excel. Both needed an anchor that could perform like a Claw in the bows of boats. Where they would spend 999.9% of their time. Anchor Right and Manson went in different directions. One in the direction of another popular anchor manufacturer (Delta) and built a better plough anchor. That is an assumption as independent anchor testing has not been done .. that I know of. And then testing is just testing .. or somewhere between testing and messing around w anchors. However all reports on the Excel (that I've read) have been very positive. The Boss is an attempt at improving Manson's already very successful scoop anchor and the Vulcan seems headed in the same direction. I have my own ideas and in time you shall see them. But it won't look like a Boss and even less like the Vulcan (on purpose or accidental???) therefore won't be a Boss.

N4712,
Dusky? Wazzzat? I thought you already had a Rocna. And don't try this mod on the Rocna. I think the success of this mod is somewhat to very dependent on the roundness of the bottom of the fluke .. that which the Rocna lacks.

Bruce you mean blue like this?

 

[Donsan]

"manyanchors? ... I only have 6.

Well 5 3/4 or 5 1/2 now...

 

[N4712]

On little Oliver I bought a supreme, don't know why I did. Must've been one of those in the moment buys. She has about 5ft of chain and 150' of I don't know what size rode. She seems to like the Bahamian sand but not grass/weed in the keys.

 

[eyschulman]

Eric I like the paint job. Now what about drilling a small hole in the rear of the shovel surface for a retrieval line with a small float maybe four feet up. aside from being there to attach a retrieval line it would with the correct floatation help angel the point of the anchor slightly down to help the dig-in angle.

 

[psneeld]

On little Oliver I bought a supreme, don't know why I did. Must've been one of those in the moment buys. She has about 5ft of chain and 150' of I don't know what size rode. She seems to like the Bahamian sand but not grass/weed in the keys.
View attachment 38055

Why not a Supreme?????...it's as good as any other anchor till someone proves otherwise and it sure has it's list of approvals and accolades....

Probably at the time of purchase it was heaper than many and just as good...so it sounds like a great purchase to me...


And certainly from all the anchor posts and threads you can see that no one has proven hardly anything about anchors....


Keep the roll bar....I think it does it's job just fine without reduction in performance...especially for a boat you probably wont anchor out in a hurricane. Especially something as nice as a Dusky.

 

[FF]

"And certainly from all the anchor posts and threads you can see that no one has proven hardly anything about anchors.."

Perhaps , but most think this is one area where SIZE DOES COUNT.

No one has yet explained their desire for a watchfob anchor.

 

[Marin]

No one has yet explained their desire for a watchfob anchor.

I agree that size very much counts. But for people who haul their anchors by hand size/weight can be detrimental.

 

[eyschulman]

I agree that size very much counts. But for people who haul their anchors by hand size/weight can be detrimental.

If the Fortress anchor commercial proved anything at all it was that size may count smaller was better. All anchors are not created equal and to talk about old heavy iron where size and weight were and are important in the same context as newer light deep digging anchors is not realistic. Yes size and weight does matter but that has to be referenced with which anchor and weather one means size as greater or lesser. There is that thread of evidence that maybe a small deep digger goes deeper and can sustain more pull load than the same larger anchor. Old knowledge also tends to die slow.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Just like extra chain weight there's no point in carrying anchor weight either.

I'm just a tinkerer but it seems to me I may be able to make the Supreme anchor work as well as it normally does w/o the roll bar. Deeper penetration should result in greater holding power but some holding power should/will be lost because of the loss of the interference drag from the close proximity of the roll bar and the fluke. The idea is that the gain from deeper penetration will be greater than the loss of interplane drag. And then a smaller anchor will indeed hold a bigger boat .... if it works as intended.

 

[Al]

I gotta say fellows, following the discussions on anchors through this forum is a hoot!! At times I fear leaving the dock for thinking that the anchor issue will keep me up at night.

Such detail on each and every anchor selection. Size, weight, chain vs rope, scope, material, winch or hand over hand, it just blows the mind. Honest to God one becomes penis envie over all the information that flows here.

No intent to offend, rather to registrar that anchoring becomes a challenge thinking of all the anchor marine minutia information digested as the chain rattles over the roller. "Now What?"

Thanks for the chatter, Cheers and carry on,

Al

 

[FF]

"But for people who haul their anchors by hand size/weight can be detrimental."

No question , but this is Trawler Forum, a manual SL 555 is a rare novelty , not sure if there are any Hand over Hand Jobs here.

So if the bow will hold a 45lb or 60lb easily , and the windlass or capstan is properly sized , why this desire for watch fobs?

Less to paint white?

I DO LOVE the modern anchors tho as it makes real anchors CQR or Danforth in heavier sizes quite inexpensive to purchase used.

I would rather ship 3 or 4 "old" style larger anchors than one new $1,000 flyweight!

 

[Nomad Willy]

Even my little bow will handle a 45lb anchor FF. But I wouldn't burden it w 200lbs of chain. And chain or no chain I ain't hsul'in no 45lb anchor .. actually I could w the small amount of chain I usually use. Hand haul'in from the deep is a whole lot different than just doing the last few feet.

At 15lbs FF my whacked Supreme isn't exactly a flyweight. I'd say normal is only 4 or 5 lbs over that. My Willard was (I believe) originally equipped w a 13lb Danny.

FF says "I would rather ship 3 or 4 "old" style larger anchors than one new $1,000 flyweight" ... I'm think'in that way about cars now. Driving my new "flyweight" Jetta for a few days and then my old 73 Buick is a shock .. a pleasant shock. I'm think'in how great it drives. Then get back into the new Jet car and feel I've died and gone to heaven. Today I'm going to drive the "tweener" .. a 95 Buick.

Al stay tuned ... glad you're having fun.

eyeshulman .. now you're think'in outside the box .. " Now what about drilling a small hole in the rear of the shovel surface for a retrieval line with a small float maybe four feet up. aside from being there to attach a retrieval line it would with the correct floatation help angel the point of the anchor slightly down to help the dig-in angle."
There was an anchor along that line of thinking called the Hydrobubble. It had a large baseball sized plastic air chamber on top of the shank that held the anchor (small SS sheet metal plough) up in the right side up configuration theoretically all the time. Occasionally in anchor tests it surprised everybody and performed well. I'm very sensitive though and think the guys would make fun of me w a balloon lift anchor. I told my wife I posted pics of my wacked Supreme and she said I better be careful .. they may take away my guru status.

Re the Supreme psneeld wrote;
"Probably at the time of purchase it was heaper than many and just as good...so it sounds like a great purchase to me..."
Indeed. More Rocna's are sold and in this case I think it shows the power of advertising. They are not same (in performance) though and for that reason I choose the Supreme. And I do favor dark horses.

I may call this anchor the Supreme Digger.

 

[FF]

Genuine "Old Style" anchors like a Herrishoff still have a place today , mostly as a rock pick , but a crown lift line line must be used.

The big complaint is that the fluke sticking up can catch a wrap in a tide and upset the anchor.

The "modern" burring anchor solves this problem , but must reset in the tidal condition , usually they do.

The older anchors were considered proper at 10 lbs per ft of LOA.

Yes your 50 ft boat would require a 500 lb anchor , but for overnight in a protected harbor only a 100 or 150 might be deployed.

These usually had a bent pipe on deck (as crane) , were hauled up by the windlass , hooked to the tackle on the crane and swung aboard.

Taking it down was simple and it would stow flat lashed on deck.

The Danforth was the pioneer in light weight anchors a pound a foot , 1/10 of the norm!!

Weight does not work to measure anchor size any more , aluminum or titanium , some of the new flyweights are mere copies of the Danforth , or his competitor the CQR.

AS what gets dragged down and in the bottom counts most,,my system is to use a larger CQR than I would a Danforth.

A Danforth 35H or a 45 CQR , for about the same holding.

Still have that 100lb Herrishoff from my voyaging days , but it does get a bit heavy to drag up on deck these days.

 

[psneeld]

anyone have anchor sales statistics for anchors handy? or want to do the research?


my internet is spotty while travelling....

 

[Nomad Willy]

LSeveral months ago I went into Fisheries Supply (a big store in Seattle) and was overwhelmed by the Rocna presence there. Went to a bit of a hallway to the room where the anchors are and they had 7 or 8 huge chrome looking SS Rocna's stood up on their buts. A stunning display of anchor marketing. There were other anchors in the store and not hard to find but not far from it. I asked the sales clerk if they had bought out Rocna. He said they sell more Rocna's than all the others combined. Marin said this would happen 5 or 6 years ago. I should have paid more attention to him. It's an extremely good anchor so there's little downside to it and I like to see competition in industry being basically a capitalist. But there's stuff about Rocna I don't like and the anchor isn't perfect either. And I highly suspect the Boss and the Vulcan won't measure up to the Supreme or Rocna roll bar anchor. But I'm sure the future isn't going to be paved in roll bars.

The apparent corner on the anchor market in Puget Sound by Rocna may only be a local bloom so I'm hoping someone will rise to psneeld's question

 

[Nomad Willy]

Genuine "Old Style" anchors like a Herrishoff still have a place today , mostly as a rock pick , but a crown lift line line must be used.

The big complaint is that the fluke sticking up can catch a wrap in a tide and upset the anchor.

The "modern" burring anchor solves this problem , but must reset in the tidal condition , usually they do.

The older anchors were considered proper at 10 lbs per ft of LOA.

Yes your 50 ft boat would require a 500 lb anchor , but for overnight in a protected harbor only a 100 or 150 might be deployed.

These usually had a bent pipe on deck (as crane) , were hauled up by the windlass , hooked to the tackle on the crane and swung aboard.

Taking it down was simple and it would stow flat lashed on deck.

The Danforth was the pioneer in light weight anchors a pound a foot , 1/10 of the norm!!

Weight does not work to measure anchor size any more , aluminum or titanium , some of the new flyweights are mere copies of the Danforth , or his competitor the CQR.

AS what gets dragged down and in the bottom counts most,,my system is to use a larger CQR than I would a Danforth.

A Danforth 35H or a 45 CQR , for about the same holding.

Still have that 100lb Herrishoff from my voyaging days , but it does get a bit heavy to drag up on deck these days.

FF,
That's an overwhelming amount of anchor weight for "older anchors" and am wondering what anchors would be in that catergory. I'm sure the Kedge and Herreshoff would be included but are you talking about Navy and Dreadnoughts as well? As I recal the Herreshoff had about twice as much holding power as the basic Kedge. A modern bronze Herreshoff was in a test reciently and scored well for what it is. I'll look it up.

Many to most of us could make good use of the old bent pipe crane on the bow to lift an anchor aboard. Bow pulpits could be whacked off and moorage costs reduced and a better looking boat realized. Would seem a good alternative to me for once a day (or so) anchoring but not for fishing where many anchorings a day may be the norm. On my Willy the bent pipe crane could be used w/o a power winch attached. But a 100lb Herreshoff would be lighter by far than an all chain rode. Kedges are easy to find but I know of no sources for Herreshoff anchors over 22lbs.

 

[psneeld]

In nearly 1500 miles of ICW on the east coast this year and walking around thousands of boats in marinas, restaurants, passing by them close aboard in front of homes...I bet the total number of Rocnas I have seen is less than 10.

Just because one sales guy in one store says they are the hottest selling anchor doesn't make it so for so many reasons I won't even try and list them.

I don't know if they are or arent all that popular...I don't know if they are good or bad.....

All I know is what I see hanging on a lot of cruising boats and the vast majority don't have any of the new generation anchors hanging....that ought to say something as I am not even close to being the first to post it.

 

[dhmeissner]

Walking the docks around here I see Bruce, Danforth, CQR and the like. I succumbed and bought a Ronca, it's not got wet yet.

 

[markpierce]

The most common anchors on our dock (by the way, there are no modern roll-bar anchors if not counting the one Bugel) are the plow and claw:

 

[psneeld]

Based on all the old style anchors being used...I can't believe any occupied anchorage is safe to anchor in....and people are worried about running genset when doom and gloom is only a puff of wind away!!!

 

[eyschulman]

Based on all the old style anchors being used...I can't believe any occupied anchorage is safe to anchor in....and people are worried about running genset when doom and gloom is only a puff of wind away!!!

Well I have sort of said it before almost all the anchors out there work and if you know how to use them there will rarely be a problem especially in protected anchorages. There are some differences in how some of the units work and a skipper can take advantage of that. For instance the lighter deep diggers can be rigged with minimal chain to obtain a very light easy to handle rig that has considerable holding power and on some boats that can be a big plus. If a boat runs down in the stern a 75lb CQR with 400 foot of chain might be a better answer. Then there is every thing in between the two extremes where most boats live.

 

[Marin]

The most common anchors on our dock (by the way, there are no modern roll-bar anchors if not counting the one Bugel) are the plow and claw:

When in 1998 we first started keeping our boat in the harbor we're in, the most prevelant anchors were Bruce/claw and CQR for power and sail. Today the Bruce/claw seems pretty much as prevelant as ever but CQRs seem to be getting fewer and farther between.

The growth in anchor types has been occuring in newer types-- Rocna, spades of various types, and plow-type anchors that aren't CQRs.

Nothing scientific about this nor is it any indication of sales statistics. Just my observation walking the docks to our boat and what's on the guest dock and in the big boatyard in the harbor.

 

[markpierce]

Seems that most boaters don't "upgrade" unless their anchor(s) fail(s) them.