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Old 03-09-2015, 02:11 PM   #21
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anyone have anchor sales statistics for anchors handy? or want to do the research?


my internet is spotty while travelling....
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Old 03-09-2015, 02:47 PM   #22
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LSeveral months ago I went into Fisheries Supply (a big store in Seattle) and was overwhelmed by the Rocna presence there. Went to a bit of a hallway to the room where the anchors are and they had 7 or 8 huge chrome looking SS Rocna's stood up on their buts. A stunning display of anchor marketing. There were other anchors in the store and not hard to find but not far from it. I asked the sales clerk if they had bought out Rocna. He said they sell more Rocna's than all the others combined. Marin said this would happen 5 or 6 years ago. I should have paid more attention to him. It's an extremely good anchor so there's little downside to it and I like to see competition in industry being basically a capitalist. But there's stuff about Rocna I don't like and the anchor isn't perfect either. And I highly suspect the Boss and the Vulcan won't measure up to the Supreme or Rocna roll bar anchor. But I'm sure the future isn't going to be paved in roll bars.

The apparent corner on the anchor market in Puget Sound by Rocna may only be a local bloom so I'm hoping someone will rise to psneeld's question
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Old 03-09-2015, 03:16 PM   #23
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Genuine "Old Style" anchors like a Herrishoff still have a place today , mostly as a rock pick , but a crown lift line line must be used.

The big complaint is that the fluke sticking up can catch a wrap in a tide and upset the anchor.

The "modern" burring anchor solves this problem , but must reset in the tidal condition , usually they do.

The older anchors were considered proper at 10 lbs per ft of LOA.

Yes your 50 ft boat would require a 500 lb anchor , but for overnight in a protected harbor only a 100 or 150 might be deployed.

These usually had a bent pipe on deck (as crane) , were hauled up by the windlass , hooked to the tackle on the crane and swung aboard.

Taking it down was simple and it would stow flat lashed on deck.

The Danforth was the pioneer in light weight anchors a pound a foot , 1/10 of the norm!!

Weight does not work to measure anchor size any more , aluminum or titanium , some of the new flyweights are mere copies of the Danforth , or his competitor the CQR.

AS what gets dragged down and in the bottom counts most,,my system is to use a larger CQR than I would a Danforth.

A Danforth 35H or a 45 CQR , for about the same holding.

Still have that 100lb Herrishoff from my voyaging days , but it does get a bit heavy to drag up on deck these days.

FF,
That's an overwhelming amount of anchor weight for "older anchors" and am wondering what anchors would be in that catergory. I'm sure the Kedge and Herreshoff would be included but are you talking about Navy and Dreadnoughts as well? As I recal the Herreshoff had about twice as much holding power as the basic Kedge. A modern bronze Herreshoff was in a test reciently and scored well for what it is. I'll look it up.

Many to most of us could make good use of the old bent pipe crane on the bow to lift an anchor aboard. Bow pulpits could be whacked off and moorage costs reduced and a better looking boat realized. Would seem a good alternative to me for once a day (or so) anchoring but not for fishing where many anchorings a day may be the norm. On my Willy the bent pipe crane could be used w/o a power winch attached. But a 100lb Herreshoff would be lighter by far than an all chain rode. Kedges are easy to find but I know of no sources for Herreshoff anchors over 22lbs.
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Old 03-09-2015, 04:32 PM   #24
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In nearly 1500 miles of ICW on the east coast this year and walking around thousands of boats in marinas, restaurants, passing by them close aboard in front of homes...I bet the total number of Rocnas I have seen is less than 10.

Just because one sales guy in one store says they are the hottest selling anchor doesn't make it so for so many reasons I won't even try and list them.

I don't know if they are or arent all that popular...I don't know if they are good or bad.....

All I know is what I see hanging on a lot of cruising boats and the vast majority don't have any of the new generation anchors hanging....that ought to say something as I am not even close to being the first to post it.
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:41 PM   #25
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Walking the docks around here I see Bruce, Danforth, CQR and the like. I succumbed and bought a Ronca, it's not got wet yet.
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:09 PM   #26
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The most common anchors on our dock (by the way, there are no modern roll-bar anchors if not counting the one Bugel) are the plow and claw:


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Old 03-09-2015, 06:40 PM   #27
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Based on all the old style anchors being used...I can't believe any occupied anchorage is safe to anchor in....and people are worried about running genset when doom and gloom is only a puff of wind away!!!
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Old 03-09-2015, 07:23 PM   #28
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Based on all the old style anchors being used...I can't believe any occupied anchorage is safe to anchor in....and people are worried about running genset when doom and gloom is only a puff of wind away!!!
Well I have sort of said it before almost all the anchors out there work and if you know how to use them there will rarely be a problem especially in protected anchorages. There are some differences in how some of the units work and a skipper can take advantage of that. For instance the lighter deep diggers can be rigged with minimal chain to obtain a very light easy to handle rig that has considerable holding power and on some boats that can be a big plus. If a boat runs down in the stern a 75lb CQR with 400 foot of chain might be a better answer. Then there is every thing in between the two extremes where most boats live.
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Old 03-09-2015, 07:39 PM   #29
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The most common anchors on our dock (by the way, there are no modern roll-bar anchors if not counting the one Bugel) are the plow and claw:
When in 1998 we first started keeping our boat in the harbor we're in, the most prevelant anchors were Bruce/claw and CQR for power and sail. Today the Bruce/claw seems pretty much as prevelant as ever but CQRs seem to be getting fewer and farther between.

The growth in anchor types has been occuring in newer types-- Rocna, spades of various types, and plow-type anchors that aren't CQRs.

Nothing scientific about this nor is it any indication of sales statistics. Just my observation walking the docks to our boat and what's on the guest dock and in the big boatyard in the harbor.
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Old 03-09-2015, 07:44 PM   #30
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Seems that most boaters don't "upgrade" unless their anchor(s) fail(s) them.
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Old 03-09-2015, 08:27 PM   #31
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These are two that I've had for a while from earlier boats .
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Old 03-09-2015, 09:07 PM   #32
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Marin I don't think there's such a thing as a roll bar anchor.

There's scoop anchors and plow anchors and several to many other types. Your Rocna and my Supreme (past tense) are scoop anchors w a roll bar attachment. Roll bars are just an accessory to aid the anchor in righting itself. The roll bar is just an aid for setting performance. But when you say "roll bar anchor" we'll know what you're talking about.

Marty please tell us your experiences w the Kedge anchor. Probably very few here have any knowledge regarding their performance.
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Old 03-09-2015, 09:34 PM   #33
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Sorry Eric I do not have any experience with this anchor . It was on a 1965 32 ft Islander sailboat that I used to own .It also came with a 20 lb CQR . I had this boat in my backyard reworking for 7 years .The boat was from the northeast .
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:31 AM   #34
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Marin I don't think there's such a thing as a roll bar anchor.
Not sure I follow your reasoning. Rollbar anchors are anchors that have a roll bar as an integral part of the anchor. The fluke can be whatever shape the designer chose but the unique feature of the anchor is the rollbar. Hence the generic name of rollbar anchor.

An airplane is an airplane but when you put floats on it it's called a floatplane. Not "an airplane with accessory floats mounted on the bottom."

Same thing with the rollbar anchor I think.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:46 AM   #35
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Seems that most boaters don't "upgrade" unless their anchor(s) fail(s) them.
That or the boat is moved from one region to another. Our boat spent its whole life in San Francisco Bay until we bought it and trucked it north. The boat had a pair of big Danforth knock-offs on it (bow and stern). This made sense as it's my understanding that the bay and delta and river where from PO photos our boat apparently spent much of its time have primarily mud bottoms and the Danforth type has a great reputation for holding in mud.

Up here there is a pretty wide variety of bottoms and a Danforth type is not very popular. So we changed to what a huge number of boaters have here and that is a Bruce.

A few years later after multiple annoying "failures" and one very serious one we went in search of a better anchor and did indeed "upgrade."
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:45 PM   #36
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OK Marin ....
The roll bar does kinda stick out.
Something I thought about today is that the Supreme is better suited to being a roll bar anchor as it's fluke is so rounded. It rolls around on it's fluke bottom really well ... being so round. The Rocna w it's two flat surfaces on the fluke bottom would seem to not want to roll as well. Never heard of anybody having any trouble getting it to set though. It's odd that the Supreme has a more involved and more expensive to build methods but the Rocna has the higher price.

Anyway I wonder if the upper part of the slotted shank on the Supreme could be cut off. I'll bet the small amount of strength loss wouldn't be noticed unless really extreme conditions were encountered and that's very unlikely in the Puget Sound area. And if it failed I'm guessing the shank would just bend and all would probably not be lost. But then I could just get ahead of the game, have a shank fabed that pleases me and have it welded on. Perhaps that would be mod #7.
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:11 PM   #37
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Eric-- When we deploy an anchor we don't just let it carefully down onto the seabed and then wait motionless to see what will happen. We start easing back, paying out rode and also pullng on the anchor. The genius of the rollbar design is that no matter how it lands on the bottom, the moment you start to pull on it the design forces it to immediatlely lay over on its side with the fluke in a position to slice down into the bottom like a knife blade.

So it makes no difference whether the fluke is more rounded or less rounded or concave or convex. What's important is that pullng on the end of the shank makes the anchor roll onto its side from whatever position it ended up in when it first hit the bottom.

FWIW a Rocna fluke is not a wedge of two flat pieces of metal. There is a curve to the fluke.
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Old 03-11-2015, 10:35 PM   #38
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FWIW a Rocna fluke is not a wedge of two flat pieces of metal. There is a curve to the fluke.
Eric--- Well, that's not as true a statement as I had thought it was. You'd think I'd know the shape of our own anchor fairly well by now, but in fact your description is more accurate.

The two sections of the fluke do not make a hard angle in the lower section of the fluke (pointy end), but it's not near as rounded as I was envisioning in my head.

I guess it what's you'd call a "soft angle."

The first photo is one I took of our installation. I took it as a record of the new, taller pulpit bail or keeper we made to allow the anchor to lie down more in the pulpit channel, not as an illustration of the anchor itself. But is sort of gives an idea of the "soft angle" of the lower part of the fluke.

The second photo I found on the web and while it shows this "softer angle" down near the point it also confirms your description of the fluke as a pair of flat planes joined into a V.

The anchor still ends up on its side in the proper setting position the moment you pull on the shank, but I wanted to acknowledge your more accurate description of the fluke shape.
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Old 03-11-2015, 11:20 PM   #39
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Yes and thank you Marin.
I notice the roll bar on the Rocna is over 180 degrees around. Perhaps this makes up for the difference in roundness. Just a thought.

The way I deploy my anchors I'll bet I get a set every time. The only way it can drag inverted is to set it up vertically and tip it over backwards. Then I need to hold the shank up at about 45 degrees to make it drag upside down. Can't imagine how that could happen while actually anchoring.

I remember someone else saying they saw another Supreme w the RB cut off. But they left about 2" and I think that was a mistake. Of course there's about an inch left on mine because of the skids on the outboard edges of the fluke .. to keep the back of the fluke high to force the tip down. But this 1" of the roll bar is below the fluke on the supreme kinda like the Rocna. I have other ways of making the CG even lower. As long as the anchor is laying down I think it should work very well. Gotta admit some chain may or probably help there.
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Old 03-12-2015, 02:07 AM   #40
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Eric--- I think if there is any flaw in your cut-down anchor theory it's that the anchor no longer has the geometry to lie on its side with the fluke at more or less 90 degrees (sideways) to the bottom. Which means the fluke will never be positioned to pivot like a knife blade down into the bottom, thus cutting through weed, crusty surfaces, and so on. Instead your anchor is now essentially a spade anchor and will depend on the tip biting into the surface and then digging in as it's dragged along.

Not that this doesn't work, of course. But to me, the advantage the rollbar anchor has is, because it always starts its set from the same position--- it's geometry gives it no choice--- the setting action is designed to take maximum advantage of that position.

The result is that, by almost all user reports, videos, etc. the rollbar anchors slice down in, pivot, and come to a stop within not much more forward movement than the length of the anchor.

Which is why I've always referred to the rollbar anchors as pro-active anchors. As opposed to the other types which I call drop-drag-and-hope anchors because that's in essence what you do. The anchor lands on the bottom however it lands, and then you start dragging it along in the hope that the fluke tip or the tips of at least one of the flukes on a multiple-fluke anchor will catch on the bottom hard enough to dig the fluke(s) in and stop the anchor.

Centuries of using this process to set an anchor proves that this method works the vast majority of the time. But we've dragged our Bruce along the bottom far enough that we ran out of room and had to pick up, move back up and try again, and I'm sure a lot of people here have experienced the same thing with their anchors on occasion.

Never say never, of course, but we've never yet had to do that with our rollbar anchor.

So it will be very interesting to hear how your ex-rollbar-turned-spade anchor works. My guess is it will dig in at some point almost all the time. Whether or not it performs more consistently or quickly than a true spade remains to be seen.
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