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Old 09-21-2014, 07:49 PM   #1
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Super Sarca spotted on the New River

Big ol'e cat with a big ol'e Super Sarca.
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:59 PM   #2
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Wonder where he got it?

If I bought another anchor that would be it. But I have at least 5 as it is.
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:17 AM   #3
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Yep…that there's a Super Sarca all right….not exactly beautiful, but business like, and do the business they do...in spades, (although not a spade).

PS. Normally pulled in to horizontal lie, of course.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:56 AM   #4
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Wonder where he got it?

If I bought another anchor that would be it. But I have at least 5 as it is.

Maybe the boat was built in New Zealand or Australia.
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:28 AM   #5
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Maybe the boat was built in New Zealand or Australia.

That's what I was thinking.
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:35 AM   #6
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Those Sarcas must be amazing. Does anyone else think this anchor appears to be small for such a large boat?
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:00 AM   #7
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Yes Don,
The bigger the boat the smaller the anchor ... it seems. I think I actually know the reason for that.

We of small craft talk a lot about anchors and it's very often said "bigger is better". Ever heard that one? Ha. The boaters say it and even the manufacturers say that. Maybe here on TF saying something that's so obviously correct has great appeal. Nobody can argue about that and it makes one look wise and experienced. May also make one look like he goes cruising in Patagonia or the Aleutian Islands. Puts hair on one's chest .. so to speak. Manufacturers love it as they not only get to sell bigger anchors but then a customer goes on the rocks in a blow the manufacturer can say "I told you bigger is better". Beats the heck out of recomending a smaller anchor and the guy goes on the rocks.

When a guy buys his boat his peers told him "bigger is better". Sounded like sage advice. Then he heard that several or more times from boaters like TF members and guys on the docks. So he got a bigger anchor. The next guy (with that boat) got a bigger one for all the same reasons. It appears to be a stupid thing to get a smaller anchor so they just keep getting bigger.

I have some small anchors. One I'm quite sure came w the boat from Willard as I've seen several others like it. It's a 13lb Danforth. Used it in winds up to 35 knots. Never dragged. Always set promptly. Then I heard bigger is better. Got some anchors 18 to 22lbs. They all have worked well. But I see guys w 35lb anchors on Willards like mine and I decide to get a couple anchors that have a rep for not holding so well so I get some 35lb anchors. Over twice as big as the anchor that Willard seemed to think was big enough. A lot of guys on TF have purchased new anchors. Have you ever heard of them getting a SMALLER one? Even though the manufacturers say their anchors have super high holding power. Or the anchor tests say the same. But the guys keep getting bigger anchors.

Then we look at bigger boats or even ships and say "the anchor sure looks small". I've mentioned him before but there's a guy in our yard that goes to SE Alaska every year (I think) w a custom commercial looking steel boat that has a Navy anchor on the bow. It dosn't look big. If anything it looks small. But he uses it year after year. He seems to sorta think for himself. He has thick plastic windows all around his wheelhouse and no windshield wipers. I asked him how he gets along w/o wipers and he said "don't need'um". I wondered about that as we were about to take Willy to Alaska and the Willard had plastic windows and no wipers. We went and he was right. Don't need'um. But there were times that I wished we had wipers but really didn't need them.

Getting an engine for a boat is a bit like getting an anchor for a boat. The penalty for screwing up and getting one too small can be great. but there's little penalty to pay if one err's on the too big side. I was afraid to get an engine too small. I figured that 32hp would be fine but bought an engine a little bigger. I think anchors of 15 to 18lbs are plenty big enough for Willy but I'm a little afraid to go out on a trip w a 10 or 12lb anchor.

Bigger is better.

Here is a very large yacht w a rather small Navy anchor. Don't think the Navy anchor is known for high holding power. But look at what it has to "hold".
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:35 PM   #8
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Bigger is better.

Here is a very large yacht w a rather small Navy anchor. Don't think the Navy anchor is known for high holding power. But look at what it has to "hold".
First of all Silverado at anchor has a person on the bridge and awake 24/7. Her anchors are about 400 pounds each and she carries two 120 fathom chains, 5/8" or 3/4" stud link, which weighs around 5 lbs a foot and has a 50,000 pound working load rating. The anchor is a place-holder, the 1500 pounds of chain ensures there's never much pull on it. Working load rating on the chain is one 10th to one 12th of vessel displacement.

The anchors that come with boats as standard are always too small. I see hundreds of charter boats trying to anchor every year, invariably with anchors that are too small and chain that's too light. They drag their puny anchors all over the bay. The manufacturers just cheap out on basic equipment. If the anchor and chain is big enough you don't have to worry if it's set or not, put it down and leave it alone. You'll never see Silverado trying to set his anchor, or any ship for that mater.
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:40 PM   #9
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Yes Don,
The bigger the boat the smaller the anchor ... it seems. I think I actually know the reason for that.

We of small craft talk a lot about anchors and it's very often said "bigger is better". Ever heard that one? Ha. The boaters say it and even the manufacturers say that. Maybe here on TF saying something that's so obviously correct has great appeal. Nobody can argue about that and it makes one look wise and experienced. May also make one look like he goes cruising in Patagonia or the Aleutian Islands. Puts hair on one's chest .. so to speak. Manufacturers love it as they not only get to sell bigger anchors but then a customer goes on the rocks in a blow the manufacturer can say "I told you bigger is better". Beats the heck out of recomending a smaller anchor and the guy goes on the rocks.

When a guy buys his boat his peers told him "bigger is better". Sounded like sage advice. Then he heard that several or more times from boaters like TF members and guys on the docks. So he got a bigger anchor. The next guy (with that boat) got a bigger one for all the same reasons. It appears to be a stupid thing to get a smaller anchor so they just keep getting bigger.

I have some small anchors. One I'm quite sure came w the boat from Willard as I've seen several others like it. It's a 13lb Danforth. Used it in winds up to 35 knots. Never dragged. Always set promptly. Then I heard bigger is better. Got some anchors 18 to 22lbs. They all have worked well. But I see guys w 35lb anchors on Willards like mine and I decide to get a couple anchors that have a rep for not holding so well so I get some 35lb anchors. Over twice as big as the anchor that Willard seemed to think was big enough. A lot of guys on TF have purchased new anchors. Have you ever heard of them getting a SMALLER one? Even though the manufacturers say their anchors have super high holding power. Or the anchor tests say the same. But the guys keep getting bigger anchors.

Then we look at bigger boats or even ships and say "the anchor sure looks small". I've mentioned him before but there's a guy in our yard that goes to SE Alaska every year (I think) w a custom commercial looking steel boat that has a Navy anchor on the bow. It dosn't look big. If anything it looks small. But he uses it year after year. He seems to sorta think for himself. He has thick plastic windows all around his wheelhouse and no windshield wipers. I asked him how he gets along w/o wipers and he said "don't need'um". I wondered about that as we were about to take Willy to Alaska and the Willard had plastic windows and no wipers. We went and he was right. Don't need'um. But there were times that I wished we had wipers but really didn't need them.

Getting an engine for a boat is a bit like getting an anchor for a boat. The penalty for screwing up and getting one too small can be great. but there's little penalty to pay if one err's on the too big side. I was afraid to get an engine too small. I figured that 32hp would be fine but bought an engine a little bigger. I think anchors of 15 to 18lbs are plenty big enough for Willy but I'm a little afraid to go out on a trip w a 10 or 12lb anchor.

Bigger is better.

Here is a very large yacht w a rather small Navy anchor. Don't think the Navy anchor is known for high holding power. But look at what it has to "hold".

Anddddd here we go....
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Old 09-22-2014, 02:58 PM   #10
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TAD,
I'm surprised boat manufacturers would actually but their boats out there in a state of being dangerous. Don't they get sued? Haven't heard of any.

Yes I do know much of that that pertains to really big vessels but I'm talk'in more of the boats featured in the OP. The bigger yachts skippered by their owners. The bigger boats DO sport smaller anchors re the size of the boats. And very few boaters get smaller anchors. One would think half of the time anchors would get smaller but it almost never happens. Much of it can or may be explained by the practice of manufacturers undersizing ground tackle.

I think more boaters should be thinking for themselves instead of looking at other boaters that don't know any more than they do. You don't learn much by following the horse in front of you. Digging, research and objective observations can go a long way.
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Old 09-24-2014, 02:32 AM   #11
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Eric, I think the issue is getting one that is big enough - mainly so it sinks in and sets quickly and well. As the Fortress thread illustrated, even the small anchors that did set and dig well in held quite a high load. So the thing is, as long as the anchor sets and digas in well, then the rest is up to the weight of the rode and the caternary, etc as Tad mentioned. That I suspect is why once the anchor is big enough, bigger does not necessarily get any better, because in most situations, the anchor just tethers the end of the rode to the spot. Which is why many of us advocate whole chain rode...except in very deep water where that might be impractical, as you found up there in Alaska type anchorages.
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:55 AM   #12
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Yes Peter .. big enough,
But there's a very wide range of what that is and it even varies between anchors. I have an 18lb XYZ and consider that big enough. It was in a 50 knot gale. I have a 22lb Claw and got a 33lb awhile back. Now I'm think'in 44lbs would be "better". Clearly though if your anchor was so big your little boat could'nt set it it may be too big. 33lbs seems a nice weight for a low holding power anchor for Willy but 44 is only 10lbs more. Only 10lbs. Why not? How about a 55?. Only 11lbs more ...........
Back to reality Marin had a 33lb low holding power anchor and it dragged. And I personally can be easily convinced his Bruce was too small so bigger is better seemed to apply nicely. But he opted not only to get a bigger anchor but a higher performing anchor too. He may have gone further than necessary. A 44lb Bruce or a 33lb Rocna would probably end his dragging days forever but like I said above "it's only 11lbs".
But if I put a 44lb Claw on Willy I'd be more over the top than Marin w the 44lb Rocna.

Also I've said for years that putting chain weight into the anchor is a large increase in ground tackle performance. 20lbs of chain buys you very little performance but 20lbs more anchor increases anchoring performance a lot. If I have to "spend" ground tackle weight .... I'd spend it on the anchor.

The small anchor penetrating deep or the big anchor penetrating not so much looks like an issue that revolves around sea bed conditions. If the bottom gets harder as the anchor goes down (and very few go very far) then it could be that a smaller anchor may actually have an edge. Especially if the top layer of sea bed was soupy mud and 18" down quite hard. But for a smaller anchor to outperform a larger one I'm think'in a very unusual sea bed would be about the only thing that would bring that about.

And if I was to get a SS 22lbs would seem about right but I'd probably get a 33. So yes I do buy into bigger anchors being better.
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Old 09-24-2014, 03:49 PM   #13
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Now that I have time (at Starbucks) I'll address the other half of your post Peter.

Peter wrote;
" So the thing is, as long as the anchor sets and digas in well, then the rest is up to the weight of the rode and the caternary, etc as Tad mentioned. That I suspect is why once the anchor is big enough, bigger does not necessarily get any better, because in most situations, the anchor just tethers the end of the rode to the spot. Which is why many of us advocate whole chain rode...except in very deep water where that might be impractical, as you found up there in Alaska type anchorages."

On our sized boats IMO the biggest role the chain has is to hold the anchor shank down enough so the anchor sets. After that it acts as a shock absorber as long as there is catenary. Once the catenary is gone the chain serves no purpose and nylon line would be better as there would still be shock absorption. On a big ship things are very different a s TAD points out. But w our smallish boats the chain helps most of the time while there is catenary. Many or most anchors won't hold well enough to pull an all chain rode straight so what happens after the chain is straight dosn't count for much in practice.

As to my thinking the upper half of the chain is there for convenience only ...
if you had an all chain rode deployed w a foot or so of catenary and then hung a weight from the middle of the upper half of the chain I think you would see a rise in the middle half of the lower half. So the weight of the upper half of the rode is actually doing the opposite of catenary .... it would tend to raise the upper end of the shank and make it more likely to break out. In addition to that the chain is attached to the anchor and the boat w some catenary. Let's say you and I were holding the ends of a 50' chain w one foot of catenary. It would take lots of pull to pull the chain up to 1' of cat but if you added weight to the center like someone sat in the middle the chain would drop to the ground from the pull on the ends.

If you transplanted the above to a typical anchoring situation you'd have a chain attached to the sea bottom and to the boat. Let's say you had 200lbs of pull on each end if the chain. The weight of the chain will try to force the rode downward pulling on both ends. Since half of that would be pulling on the anchor the anchor could hold the boat in position with more wind than if the boat and sea bottom were joined by something weighing less than chain ... like nylon line because the chain weight wouldn't be pulling on the anchor end.
So if you had two boats anchored exactly the same in the same bottom one w all chain and one w all line the anchor w all chain would drag sooner .. that is w less wind. So an all line rode should out perform an all chain rode up to the loss of catenary and then they should be equal.

I'm not saying there's a huge difference but I do think the upper half of An all chain rode is just wasted weight and money. It is more convenient as only one thing is used in the makeup of the rode. No worries about line slipping in the gypsy.
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