stacking chain problem

[geezer]

Does anybody have the problem with the anchor chain stacking against the sampson post and not allowing it to feed back in?

Our 37' Puget has a large chain locker but the sampson post goes down about 11 inches from the hole.* The chain begins the stack up in against the post until it finally stacks up and blocks the hole.* Then somebody has to go down and push the stack over so the rest of the chain can feed in.* We have been thinking of ways to direct it behind the sampson post where there is plenty room.

I'll bet somebody has run up against this and has a solution.

Thanks

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[Marin]

While it hasn't applied to us, I have seen photos of a "guide pipe" for want of a better term that directs the chain coming into the locker to a more forward (or aft) position. The idea seems to work quite well if it's properly executed. A consideration is have the end of the pipe properly flared or rolled so as to not present a chance of snagging or catching the chain as the anchor is deployed and the chain feeds up out of the locker.

 

[FlyWright]

Geezer, got pics of that sampson post in the chain locker? Is the bottom of the post 'anchored' to the floor or wall of the anchor locker? If not, can the excess be cut away to clear the space for the chain?

My sampson post is secured with a 14"x14" stainless backing plate through bolted through the deck. No portion of the post extends into the anchor locker.

I had to fashion a stainless tube to channel the chain through the bow pulpit pedestal, but it terminates at the locker 'ceiling'. Like Marin described, I had considered continuing it down and aft to allow greater fall for the rode/chain. Fortunately, it wasn't needed, but I was concerned about it catching the chain while deploying the anchor. Also, it would need to be a rather stout pipe to stand up to the abuse of anchor deployment.

 

[Steve]

This is a picture of a chain guide pipe (PVC)*in my locker. The chain enters the top of the pipe*from the windlass and the angled pipe moves the drop point aft about 10 inches, the angle the elbow fittings are 45*.

It helps but has not completely prevented the chain from tangling which happens in my case when the chain forms a tall pile and then*in rough seas or a strong wake tumbles over and knots the chain. When a knot in the chain rises to the bottom of the pipe the clutch of the windlass slips, as it should when paying out. The pipe is not too ridgidly attached just held in place by AL straps and hose clamps.

I have been thinking maybe a large diameter, about*20",*PVC pipe*standing in the chain locker, kind of like a 5 gallon bucket but much*bigger,*would contain the*chain and keep it from tumbling?* I am not sure how big it would have to be to hold my chain, 250' 5/16" G4, 'but I think that shouldn't be tto hard for an engineer friend of mine to figure out for me.

comments and suggestions always welcome*

Steve W


-- Edited by Steve on Saturday 19th of November 2011 10:32:57 PM

 

[Marin]

It's been said that something like a traffic cone under the drop of the chain will force it to pile around the cone and the cone will keep the pile from falling over. I can see how that theory would be valid although I suspect you'd have to have a pretty good sized anchor locker floor to make it work. One thing we have done, although it wasn't to cure a slumping pile problem, is put some vertical walls coming up from the floor on either side of the chain pile.* These "walls" can prevent the chain pile from slumping over far enough to cause tangles. Same idea as your five gallon bucket notion but with more volume. Depending on the configuration of your locker you may only need a pair of side walls rather than an entire box.


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 19th of November 2011 11:25:08 PM

 

[geezer]

Wow, all good ideas. Being a retired pipefitter I've been toying with the pipe idea-thanks for the picture Steve.
Putting a stainless plate on the deck and eliminating the bottom of the sampson post that goes through the chain locker and secures to the keel is also attractive and would surely solve the problem.
I'm going to try the simplest thing first and put a traffic cone down there--I think that might have a shot at working and I have one in the shop--never even thought of that.
I own the boat with an equal partner--I'll run these past him,
Thanks a lot, Geezer

 

[Marin]

geezer wrote:

Putting a stainless plate on the deck and eliminating the bottom of the sampson post that goes through the chain locker and secures to the keel is also attractive and would surely solve the problem.

*REALLY BAD IDEA.* The Sampson post is supposed to be the strongest thing on a boat.* It is supposed to be capable of carrying very heavy loads, like towing your boat in rough seas.* The reason it can do this is because it's supposed to go all the way to the keel and be heavily braced.* You are very lucky--- most boats these days cheap out and fasten their fake sampson posts to the deck, where the leverage from a line on top of the post makes it very easy to rip the post (and the deck) up.

They fact that your boat has a true sampson post that goes to the keel is a rarity these days and is a very, very good feature of the boat.* Cutting it off and securing it to backing plate under the deck will render it no better than the toy posts on boats of lesser constructions and it will be capable of holding only moderate loads.* Taking a true Sampson post and cutting it off under the deck is a REALLY bad thing to do.

 

[geezer]

That's the same argument my boat partner has--kind of a severe remedy for a solvable problem.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[koliver]

Took me many years to relax about the chain piling up, but I have, and now I stop hauling every 50 to 75 ft and go below and knock the pile over, go back up and haul some more chain. Nothing happens so fast that you haven't that much time.
For a while I tried using the long handle, reaching down through the deck hole and knocking the chain alternately to the right or the left, so it wouldn't pile up, but this was a big hassle, especially if the chain was coming up muddy and had to be hosed - not enough hands. Now I just hose it as it comes in, then go below to knock the pile over, carry on till it is all up.

 

[jleonard]

koliver wrote:
Took me many years to relax about the chain piling up, but I have, and now I stop hauling every 50 to 75 ft and go below and knock the pile over, go back up and haul some more chain. Nothing happens so fast that you haven't that much time.
For a while I tried using the long handle, reaching down through the deck hole and knocking the chain alternately to the right or the left, so it wouldn't pile up, but this was a big hassle, especially if the chain was coming up muddy and had to be hosed - not enough hands. Now I just hose it as it comes in, then go below to knock the pile over, carry on till it is all up.

*That is also how I handle it, but the frequency is at about 25 feet.

 

[Tidahapah]

I have had this same problem forever but have never got around to doing anything about it.
I just reverse the chain on the windlass at times and pull the chain out of the slump.
Doesn't allways work but gets me by.
My anchor well is split down the middle and my main anchor is in the half across from the hatch which is a pain to get at with a stick when hauling in the anchor.
I have often thought about a s/s cone but never got around to it and I also think it may take up to much space in the locker as I have 320 ft of 1/2" chain.

Geezer at no cost cut away that sampson post , it's the strongest tie of , securing point you have and you don't want it comprised in any way.


-- Edited by Tidahapah on Monday 21st of November 2011 09:17:17 PM

 

[BruceK]

The fitting diagrams for the Muir Cheetah Horizontal Windlass stipulate a minimum 300mm ( approx 1 ft) from top of gypsy to the top of the "completely stored and heaped anchor rode".

Not sure that allows for the cone/pyramid which forms in my anchor locker,* forcing me to abandon the helm, go below, slide over the V berth, open the locker,punch out the chain pyramid, and race back up before we hit something.

I suspect it is a product of anchor rode storage lockers. Never a problem on a previous boat (Masters 34), you could actually stand in the 4ft deep locker; I did once using a Gerni to blast away years of accumulated mud.

BruceK- IG36. Sydney, Australia

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[Peter B]

Some have suggested 'liberating' a marker cone 'abandoned' by the roadside and cementing it onto the floor of the chain locker as near to centred under the chain hawse as possible - makes sense to me, but I haven't come across a lost one yet.

 

[Tidahapah]

Peter,
They are all lost, you don't see them go home at night do you.

 

[Steve]

There are some available at hardware stores for about $20 but they are made of vinyl type material and too soft (I think) for the weight of the chain. Maybe fill one up with foam?
Steve W.

 

[geezer]

For a winter project ,with nothing more pressing, we have designed a "chain diversion". We made it the same width as the sampsom post, the top about 3" from the bottom of the deck, and half the distance to the locker floor. The back will be anchored to the sampson post and the foward end is wedged to the hull--it can't go down or sideways in front because of the hull angles. The top is cut at a 45 degree angle and covered with a piece of aluminum to decrease friction and prevent wear. In theory, the chain should hit the angle and be diverted to the starboard side of the sampson post. The way the hull is tapered, the chain will still begin stacking against the post as before, but when it gets the the bottom of the diverter it should begin falling against the starboard hull.

There was no room to put a cone- which may have been the answer. By the time the hull tapered back to the locker floor there is only a few inches between the hull and sampson post.

It's going in this week-end--if it actually works I'll take a picture and post it. Not much invested but a little time and a few beers.
Geezer

 

[Codger2]

Bruce Kops wrote:
BruceK- IG36. Sydney, Australia

******* Bruce:

******* Do you have any interior photos of your boat that could post?