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Old 11-11-2010, 10:54 AM   #21
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Quote:
FF wrote:

HALF POWER???

Most mediocre props will create 20lbs of thrust for each HP applied.


Half power?* Naw,* we often use short bursts of FULL power (both engines and once the slack is out).* 20lbs of thrust in forward might be normal, but I wonder what you get in reverse, probably far less. Never had any problems at all, but we sure sleep better. Anyway, I believe in always setting the anchor as though a big storm was coming through in the middle of the night.* We try to set at least 7 to 1, but even with over 300 feet of chain, here in Alaska getting that kind of scope is often hard to do.* What is there to be gained by using shorter scope, or a minimal set?* Sure if* your in a crowded anchorage (rare here) you might be limited, but otherwise, I let it all out almost every time, set it hard, and simply get it back in the morning.* Sometimes it's difficult to pull the anchor out of the bottom, but sitting on top of it with the chain verticle for a few minutes normally does the job.* The weather changes so fast here that I dont' see any advantage to saving the wear on a little chain by keeping it in the locker............Arctic Traveller
Trawler training and yacht charters at www.arctictraveller.com

And Marin, your correct, new chain wheels are available, but being imported from Italy the price was a shocker.* Ours still pulls the anchor up fine, so it stays for now.**

*
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Old 11-11-2010, 11:40 AM   #22
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

"I dont' see any advantage to saving the wear on a little chain by keeping it in the locker............ "

For Us the advantage is less the stench brought aboard by the thingies in the mud.

The less chain below deck the less stinking ., or the less scrubbing to deep 6 the mud.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:19 PM   #23
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

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nomadwilly wrote:


Marin's system/drill is excellent except I would power up to straight over the anchor even in no wind.*
Eric---* We don't pull the boat up over the anchor with the windlass if there's no wind or current, we pull the boat up to the anchor with the weight of the chain.* So I'll bring in enough chain to lift it all off the bottom and then I stop the windlass and let the weight of the chain sinking back to the bottom ease the boat forward.* Then I pull the chain up off the bottom again, and then let it pull the boat forward some more. By this time the boat is easing forward on its own momentum so it's just a matter of powering in the slack as it's created.* If there's enough wind or current to prevent the boat from drifting forward on its own like this then we'll use an engine to move it forward over the anchor.

Peter--- We don't set against the pulpit or the windlass because a really experienced boater taught us not to and that's the advice we've stayed with.* I have seen a pulpit break although this was as a result of trying to power an anchor out of the bottom, not set it.* But I daresay the bronze pulpit on our GB would probably take quite a load.* The Lofrans is a stong windlass, but I don't know how strong.* Given the simplicity and ease of our method of using a setting "snubber," I figure why test either the pulpit or the windlass components.* I know how the deck cleats are backed.

To set our anchor we generally use a fast idle on both engines in reverse.* If the catenary comes out of the chain and we can then detect no further rearward movement by looking at the trees on the shore, we figure we're good.* If high winds were expected we'd use more power to check the set.* As you say, the new anchors don't take much rearward pressure or movment to set them in most circumstances.

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Old 11-11-2010, 02:36 PM   #24
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Now can you tell if it's dragging? What method do you use?
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:46 PM   #25
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Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:

Now can you tell if it's dragging? What method do you use?
*I put my foot or hand on the chain, after the bow roller and check for "skip."* If the anchor is dragging then you'll be able to feel it in the chain as any vibrations will ride up it*and you'll feel it skipping or dragging across the bottom.* If you've snubbed then do the same thing except with the tightened snub line.

If I know there is good holding then I just drop and snub immediately, then hang out and take visual cues to check for drag.* If I'm in a questionable or unfamiliar area and it isn't windy then I'll check for skip and if I don't feel any movement, snub it and then tug in reverse at fast idle to ensure it sets while having someone else check again for skip.* If the water is clear like in parts of FLA or the Carribean I will put on a mask and look at my set to be completely sure, since chances are I won't be familiar as I am in home waters.


-- Edited by Egregious on Thursday 11th of November 2010 03:52:26 PM
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:25 PM   #26
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Quote:
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Now can you tell if it's dragging? What method do you use?
We look at the trees on shore (there are a lot of them up here).* When there is no relative motion between trees closer to us and trees farther away when we are backing down to set the anchor, we are stationary and the anchor is set.*

We had instances with the Bruce we used to have*in oozy mud bottoms*when it wouldn't set and*instead*just slid*along*the bottom.* But there was nothing in the "feel" of the rode that indicated it was dragging.* The only indication was that the relative motion between the trees on shore never stopped.* So this is the only method we rely on to determine if the anchor is set or is dragging.*

Obviously it doesn't have to be trees.* It can be houses or boulders or any*objects where there is a good*distance between the ones nearest you and the ones farther away.
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:27 PM   #27
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Quote:
FF wrote:

"I dont' see any advantage to saving the wear on a little chain by keeping it in the locker............ "

For Us the advantage is less the stench brought aboard by the thingies in the mud.

The less chain below deck the less stinking ., or the less scrubbing to deep 6 the mud.

Mud?* What's that?* Here in Alaska, we have glacial silt one in a while.* Only once in Icy Bay did I experience having the chain come up packed with the stuff.* It was the stickiest mess I ever saw and it took over half an hour to haul and clean the chain.* Normally, the anchor and chain come up clean..............Arctic Traveller
*
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:39 PM   #28
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

As I retrieve my chain rode and Bruce (which is connected to the chain via a* swivel no less) I wash it down with fresh water. That gets rid of*the mud and debris but not the clinging starfish. For those guys I use gloves.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:15 PM   #29
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

I had BAD mud on the north end of Prince of Wales Island in Calder Bay * ..just south of Calder Mountian. I think I can still smell it. I think I could weather a 75 knot gale in there though * * large bay, almost flat bottom and full of Sea Otters. Saw 30 or so at one time.`
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:30 AM   #30
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Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Quote:
Arctic Traveller wrote:

...* As for raising the anchor, I'd love to drive the boat directly over the anchor, but I can never figure out just where it is.* I've tried using a trip line and float, but got it tangled in the stabilizers more than once.* ...
Somewhere(?) I read about this method of using a weighted trip line to keep the float more directly over the anchor.** It would all need to be sized appropriately, but generally, the heavier the weight the more directly over the anchor even in wind or current (too big a float and weight could weaken the anchor set).* Besides being a better locator, keeping the lines basically straight up and own should minimize entaglements.

I haven't tried this yet, but it seems like one of those simple but briiliant ideas.* One thought I had was a plastic gallon orange jug (or 2) with the trip line through the handle(s) to a fishing weight.

I drew up this crude diagram to illustrate it.



-- Edited by Tonic on Sunday 14th of November 2010 02:35:05 AM
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:11 AM   #31
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

In a really tight anchorage that slip system is great.

Since anyone that will be in there with you will be on 2 anchors knowing actually where the anchors (nor 30 ft away cause someone was lazy)ARE is a great help.

Esp anchoring in a narrow channel, where all are nose to tail like an elephant heard.

WE use the sounding lead as a weight , always handy since its right out with the anchor.

A bowline attaches the weight to the anchor , so it can quickly be switched if a burying (CQR) is needed rather than a Danforth or Bruce.
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:56 AM   #32
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Quote:
Tonic wrote:

*
Somewhere(?) I read about this method of using a weighted trip line to keep the float more directly over the anchor.**

That's pretty much what I tried.* I got the idea from FF, but I'm not sure where I went wrong, it seems like it should work fine. * I got lucky both times, and was able to grab the line with a boat hook, untie the weight and pull the line off the stabilizer fin shaft.* Had that not worked, I would have ended up going swimming, not my idea of fun first thing in the AM.* Perhaps a bigger weight would do the trick, but I got a little gun shy.................Arctic Traveller
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:22 PM   #33
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

I don't understand this. If you keep pulling up more slack until you can't get anymore without pulling too hard then your'e right over the anchor. If you back down on it and the anchor dos'nt come out easily your'e either not on top or you've hooked onto a discarded bulldozer. But it should work basically all the time * .. keep pulling up slack until there is no more, *..back down a bit and out it comes. It seems super simple to me.
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Old 11-14-2010, 05:43 PM   #34
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

I don't understand this. If you keep pulling up more slack until you can't get anymore without pulling too hard then your'e right over the anchor. If you back down on it and the anchor dos'nt come out easily your'e either not on top or you've hooked onto a discarded bulldozer. But it should work basically all the time * .. keep pulling up slack until there is no more, *..back down a bit and out it comes. It seems super simple to me.
The idea is to know where the anchor is, so you can drive right to it, and the windlass doesn't end up pulling the boat forward instead.* Without a float marking it, one can only guess the wearabouts of the anchor. Currently we simply start pulling for a bit, stop and see which way the boat wants to drift, then power in that direction.* Otherwise, your quite correct about how to get it up once you are over the top. .....Arctic Traveller

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Old 11-14-2010, 06:31 PM   #35
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Jeff,
Who cares where it is? as soon as one pulls all the slack out of it it will be straight down. Right where one needs and wants to be.
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Old 11-14-2010, 09:17 PM   #36
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Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

No slack doesn't necessarily mean that you're over the anchor. Just yesterday we were anchored in a 2kt current with a 12kt wind in the same direction. I had about 150 feet of all chain out and bridled to my forward cleats. We were in 15 feet of water. No slack!

Ray Muldrew
GB42 San Francisco

-- Edited by Giggitoni on Sunday 14th of November 2010 10:22:29 PM
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Old 11-14-2010, 10:27 PM   #37
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

I stand corrected!* We have little and sometimes no chain so pulling up over the anchor is easy. My wife runs the boat and I pull up the rode standing right on the bow looking down most of the time seeing where the rode is leading*** ..and of course when it is straight down and won't get any more vertical I tie it off and back down a little till it breaks loose
..then I get to do the tug-o-war and pull it in. Got caught w my pants down on the* swivel talk not considering boats w anchors too heavy to twist around*** ...as in the case of Delfin's use of the swivel. Iv'e got to stay connected to the fact that almost all of you guys have boats bigger than mine. Sorry I strayed from the line.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:22 AM   #38
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Eric, once you're over the anchor, and planning to use boat movement to pull it free from the bottom, why do you back down, doesn't it make more sense to then just move gently forward, in effect then using the shank of the anchor as extra leverage to twist the fluke tip up, and out.....? This is essentially what we do with a Sarca anchor to break it free, only the slot in the shank allows the pull to be moved forward to the fluke end, so in effect one backs the fluke out. Very handy if caught under the bulldozer you just mentioned, but good also in a reef or if caught under any fixed obstruction, but also even for just the heavy, weapons grade mud one encounters from time to time. This techique works well with more orthodox plough, Danforth, and Bruce type anchors as well, just sans the slot in the shank, but in mud it's not needed. If you back it out, you are tending to dig it in again until pure force overcomes the bottom layer over it by virtue of the near vertical angle of the pull, but it still puts more strain on the bow assembly than pushing the shank forward and up, surely....?
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Old 11-15-2010, 05:14 AM   #39
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Gees guys most of the time I just start my engine (when I have one) the missus stays at the wheel and then I just gently activate the windlass and it slowly pulls the boat along up to the anchor and then up she comes, unless of course it is caught on something and that is rare even out in the reef country.
I may sometimes get her to nudge ahead if we are really hanging back with an extremely heavy tide run or strong wind but most of the time it doesn't require that.

My big reef star anchor is a whole different kettle of fish.
She has a running float on it, all rope and 10 mts of chain.
I just steam away and around so that the float tries to bury and pick the anchor out of the reef and then stream down the rode onto the chain and float the anchor ready for hauling in.
The chain is attached to the bottom of the anchor and then tied with some breakable twine to the top, so it breaks away and then pulls the anchor out by the bottom.

Benn
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Old 11-15-2010, 10:41 AM   #40
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RE: Sorry, but I have an anchoring question...

Interesting Peter. I guess I assumed the boat would be pulled sideways and one woul;d get the rode closer to the propeller. The latter would be nearly impossible be a threat and I assume that since you don't mention it the boat does not get pulled sideways. Never tried it but breaking out in reverse has'nt been a problem but it would seem that going fwd would work better for the reason you stated. Good idea Peter * *..I'll try it.Benn,
Yes * ...if I'm reading you correctly lots of skippers here in SE Alaska rig the anchor (especially the claws) so some light wire or 1/8" nylon that breaks free of the end of the shank and transfers the pull to the other end of the anchor (where the bitter end of the chain is attached) to pull out backwards. Sorry * *..I don't understand the "running float" part.
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