Go Back   Trawler Forum > Maintenance and Systems > Anchors and Anchoring

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-14-2016, 10:04 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 262
Solution for deploying anchor via power windlass at helm idea...opinion ?

My 65 foot Viking has a huge stainless anchor and all chain rode...but best I can figure it can only be deployed or retreved by someone stepping on the foot switches at the bow. Which seems ridiculous to me...previous 40 foot Egg Harbor I could just flip a switch at the helm or use the bow foot switches.

Having said that, there is a toggle for the windlass at the lower helm...but all it does is turn the system "on"...you still have to push a foot button at the bow to actually lower or raise it. (and FWIW, there are also two separate circuit breakers in case of overload)

Sooooo, why couldn't I make a block of wood wedge to stuff between the lower button and the foot guard above so that switch is always "on" and use the "system on" toggle on the helm to control it from there ? Then pull the wood and wedge the "raise" button on to retrieve it ?

Of course it would be better to rewire the situation so this is not necessary and have separate raise and lower toggles on the helm.... but 65 mile trip coming up soon I don't have time for that and this seems like a good quick and dirty way to do it.... or am I missing something ?

==================================

As an aside, for future reference, does there exist an aftermarket rotary encoder that could digitally count windlass revolutions and thus calculate each revolution to estimate the amount of chain deployed ?
__________________
Advertisement

Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2016, 10:16 PM   #2
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,148
I can think of a couple of things you could do. But all will involve some wiring.

- Wire a toggle switch at your helm. Center off, and up/down. A momentary contact switch (springs back to center/off) would be safest. From teh helm, you could pre-deploy most of your chain, if not carry out the whole anchoring process.

- Maxwell makes a chain counter and control panel. If you happen to have a maxwell windless is should be pretty straight forward to hook it up. If it's not a maxwell, then it might not be possible to hook up it up. There is a magnetic counter than counts capstain revolutions and converts to feet of chain.

We mostly anchor in deep water, so pre-deploy the anchor while doing final positioning of the boat, holding the anchor about 10' off the bottom. Then once in position, drop the last 10' and mark the spot on the chart plotter and anchor alarm, they layout the rest of the chain.
__________________

__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2016, 10:39 PM   #3
Guru
 
City: Hampton Va Back River
Country: United States
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 773
Maybe you could do this without much rewiring.
I was thinking if you take the two wires going to that on - off switch, attach to a new momentary switch, on - off - on, so each wire is now on an 'on' lug of the switch. + Power goes into the on-off-on switch center lug.

Send that power to a relay that turns on the motor forward or back. And return the small relay current back to - negative by a common ground which you most likely already have up in the bow area. So this way you don't need to run a new wire, just reconfigure wires at the windlass.

I of course have no idea what you circuit schematic is or gauge wire you have on that on-off switch you have now. Using it to control a relay it won't matter if it is smaller or bigger.
sdowney717 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 12:21 AM   #4
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,633
There are 'wireless' windlass remotes that can provide windlass function through a wireless fob. A receiver is connected to your existing solenoid, maybe near your bow controls.

Lewmar 3-Button Wireless Windlass Remote Kit
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 01:38 AM   #5
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,792
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Yes, I agree with the other suggestions - get it done properly, or just wait until you can. The idea of you wedging full time on, a solenoid that activates a high current bearing circuit, and just driving it from the helm circuit-activating switch, in other words a low current circuit that merely activates the foot switch, but not designed to be exposed to a really high current circuit, gives me the smell of burning, over-heating wiring up my nose, for some reason. The foot switch is designed to be used that way, (in bursts), but the helm switch may well not be, in other words.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 02:46 AM   #6
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,754
Google wireless winch control.

You can get one off eBay for less than $10.

The control doesn't know, nor care, whether you've installed it on a boat or a truck.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 07:29 AM   #7
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 12,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Google wireless winch control.

You can get one off eBay for less than $10.

The control doesn't know, nor care, whether you've installed it on a boat or a truck.
...or as in slowneys717 post....that is that I did but you can also run those same wires from the helm control to the bottom of the foot switches if that is easier. All you are doing is using the same circuits but jumping over the foot switches.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 08:32 AM   #8
Guru
 
ranger42c's Avatar
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 42' Sportfish
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dune View Post
Having said that, there is a toggle for the windlass at the lower helm...but all it does is turn the system "on"...you still have to push a foot button at the bow to actually lower or raise it. (and FWIW, there are also two separate circuit breakers in case of overload)

==================================

As an aside, for future reference, does there exist an aftermarket rotary encoder that could digitally count windlass revolutions and thus calculate each revolution to estimate the amount of chain deployed ?

Hard to imagine Viking wiring it that way. Is it maybe a 3-way switch at the helm -- with a loose wire? Or maybe a 3-way switch that's not completely working? A call to Viking?

Maxwell makes a rode counter; probably others do as well. Works by sensing a magnet installed in the rotor. Works great for chain; not so much for rope (if you use a rope or combo rode).

-Chris
__________________
South River, Chesapeake Bay
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 08:32 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
Yes, I agree with the other suggestions - get it done properly, or just wait until you can. The idea of you wedging full time on, a solenoid that activates a high current bearing circuit, and just driving it from the helm circuit-activating switch, in other words a low current circuit that merely activates the foot switch, but not designed to be exposed to a really high current circuit, gives me the smell of burning, over-heating wiring up my nose, for some reason. The foot switch is designed to be used that way, (in bursts), but the helm switch may well not be, in other words.
Seems like there would be no current flowing thru the foot switch until I flipped the helm toggle whether the foot switch is in on or off position, and the helm toggle would be exactly the same in terms of time on. In fact if what I propose is not ok then what is the purpose of the helm windlass toggle existing ..... since it also has a circuit breaker on the main panel plus a big red overload button in the engine room ?
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 08:43 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Hard to imagine Viking wiring it that way. Is it maybe a 3-way switch at the helm -- with a loose wire? Or maybe a 3-way switch that's not completely working? A call to Viking?
Yes, strange indeed. The helm switch is definitely 2 way on off only...temping to wonder if a previous owner might have replaced it with the wrong switch except it is only labeled "windlass"....

.one would think if meant for helm control of chain direction it would have labeling info to that effect....and yet as mentioned if not for that then why does it exist at all when there are two other circuit breakers for it anyway ?
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 09:12 AM   #11
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Essex, Ct
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,088
I don't think it is strange at all. My Mainship Pilot 34 is wired that way. The helm on/off switch just breaks the positive supply going to the foot switches. It is sized to carry the solenoid current just like the foot switches are.


So yes, even though it is a big kludge, there is nothing unsafe about wedging the foot switch down and then toggling the helm switch on an up or down cycle.


But I think I would trip that breaker in between ups and downs to give another layer of protection in case someone bumps the helm switch.


David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 09:15 AM   #12
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,792
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dune View Post
In fact if what I propose is not ok then what is the purpose of the helm windlass toggle existing ..... since it also has a circuit breaker on the main panel plus a big red overload button in the engine room ?
I guess that was actually my point. Presumably, the helm toggle is to activate the foot switch circuit near the windlass only when required and so it would not be activated by accident by someone stepping on it at some other time, when the anchor windlass suddenly whirring into action would not be good. However, the fact that it does not also double as a remote way of actually operating the windlass without use of the foot switch just suggests that maybe it is not designed to do that.

However, as someone who only has a helm toggle to activate the anchor windlass, which I love, and would hardly ever want to use a foot switch up front, I totally understand you wanting to do it. But it might be wise to get a marine electrician to advise on it before you try your temporary modification, just in case. That would be my only concern, and an electrician should be able to quickly confirm your idea is ok - or not. The remote controller sounds good, but would need some wiring in of the receiver to the solenoid or foot switch I expect. Again, an electrician might be good..? Just sayin'
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 09:23 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Dune's Avatar
 
City: Coastal SC
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Viking 65 CP MY (run at trawler speeds !)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
I don't think it is strange at all. My Mainship Pilot 34 is wired that way. The helm on/off switch just breaks the positive supply going to the foot switches.

Which the nearby circuit breaker would also do.... so I still don't get it.

Also kinda weird about the big red overload windlass button being in the most inconvenient place..... in the engine room...which of course isn't labeled as to if it should be pulled "out" or pushed "in" for reset (obviously you do the opposite of the state it is in if it needs reset except one doesn't know if it needs resetting or not... but I did figure out the "pushed in" position is "on"....which of course is logical but I do have machines where you pull buttons out to turn on so not a given conclusion)
Dune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 01:06 PM   #14
Veteran Member
 
GoneFarrell's Avatar
 
City: La Conner, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Imagine
Vessel Model: Farrell 34
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Google wireless winch control.

You can get one off eBay for less than $10.

The control doesn't know, nor care, whether you've installed it on a boat or a truck.
I just finished hooking up one of those remote control winch kits to my windlass.
Way better than the clunky old foot switches that would hang up and cause me much grief.

One important detail about these Amazon kits: the relays on the receiver end have a significant dwell (delay) time to return to the "open" position. On my winch that translates to one whole turn on the gypsy after I release the "up" button on the remote. That is OK for retrieval to the waterline, but no way I'd use it to bump the anchor on board.

I think the remote marine versions offered by the windass manufacturers have less dwell to the off position, but I have no info to back that up. Be sure to ask about that if you go that way, or find a boater in your area with the setup and ask for a demo or their experience. It should be part of what you pay for/get with an OEM solution.

I have to be up forward anyway to clean off the retrieved chain/anchor and roll the chain so the flukes will lay in without problems. That I do by hand, but my ground tackle doesn't weigh 65# !
GoneFarrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 02:30 PM   #15
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,457
Dune, it's hard to say what your existing helm switch is without more info.
It is common to have an isolation switch and/or circuit breaker for the windlass at the helm. This would be wired with heavy cable and handling full current to the windlass motor. If it is a control switch of any type, the cabling would be much lighter gauge, and just going to the windlass relay.
If it just isolates your relay, your plan may work as a short term fix.
AusCan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 05:32 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,754
Your anchor should be secured by more than the windlass while underway and the rode should be secured while at anchor (not just relying on the windlass) so as a practical matter, you have to go to the bow to release the anchor before dropping it and again before raising it.


Considering the above, you are already at the bow anyway in both situations so having switches at the bow is all you really need.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 05:35 PM   #17
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dune View Post
.................Also kinda weird about the big red overload windlass button being in the most inconvenient place..... in the engine room...
That's probably so it can be close to the electrical source (battery) to comply with ABYC requirements.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 06:23 PM   #18
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,339
We drop anchor from the helm. Only in a coral field is someone up forward. Staying at the helm allows me to determine the spot for the drop and to keep our aft movement under control. With our constant 15 kt winds we frequently put the engine into forward to slow down the backward movement.

I am up forward to release the anchor which is done when we enter the harbor and long before we drop. I am also up forward at the finish using the remote (cabled) to drop the chain to play out the anchor bridle.

When we lift anchor I am up forward with the remote while the admiral is at the helm moving the boat. Only if we are a risk of hitting another boat while weighing anchor do I stay at the helm and the admiral handles the remote.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2016, 06:28 PM   #19
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFarrell View Post
I think the remote marine versions offered by the windass manufacturers have less dwell to the off position, but I have no info to back that up. Be sure to ask about that if you go that way, or find a boater in your area with the setup and ask for a demo or their experience.
I have the Lewmar wireless remote and while it does have SOME delay, it's very slight and easily learned after about 3 retrievals. Having said that, I usually do the final set into the anchor roller from the wired lower helm control to avoid an overtight rode.

It's been a reliable unit with an advertised 30 ft range that I seriously doubt. I bet 20 ft would be more like it. Not really a problem on my 34. It allows operation from the bow, FB or lower helm doorway.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2016, 07:40 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
City: Houma, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V LUNASEA
Vessel Model: 45ft Bluewater Coastal
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 248
[QUOTE=Capt.Bill11;488830]Google wireless winch control.

You can get one off eBay for less than $10.

The control doesn't know, nor care, whether you've installed it on a boat or a truck. [/QUOT

The one I installed works GREAT!!
__________________

kartracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012