Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-11-2019, 12:20 AM   #21
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
And while it likely doesn't matter, mostly, weaker than the chain.
Possibly, but in that 80+ blow we had our chain stretched.
The victory hook showed no sign of any change.
__________________
Advertisement

Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 05:57 AM   #22
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,525
A sailboat snap shakle is fast and does not fall off.

Splice one onto each line. 3/8 for 10K days and 1/2 inch for 20Kdays.

Be sure the spring like will not reach the running gear if it goes overboard.
__________________

FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 06:48 AM   #23
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Victory hooks support the chain better than a chain hook, more of a gentle caress over the whole link vs point loading.
Ours has seen 80+ knots.
There are no clips I've found anywhere demonstrating it's installation and/or use. Just that one stock picture.
__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 07:37 AM   #24
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 954
These pictures (somewhat poorly) illustrate the hassle of trying to make use of a snubber on the all-chain rode of our EB47.

I don't have any better bow/side view pix, and this one shows the boat during delivery when it still had both the Fortress and the plow anchors in place on the roller. I only keep the plow anchor up there now. It's tough to tell from the side view, but easier from astern, but there's a rod that at the far forward end, presumably there to help avoid the anchor/chain from coming up above the roller. This makes it tedious trying to get anything attached to the chain. Any line attached has to be either fed in from up/over that rod or fed out with the chain. Either one makes for problems. Fed out with the chain means having to carefully grab it with a boat hook, lest it drop into the water. Getting it forward and under that rod is a longer reach than you might think, just looking at these pictures.

I think the rod can be removed, and that would greatly ease putting a snubber on the chain without needing to be reaching out over the end of the roller. With the plow anchor in use it's hook shape seems to be more than sufficient for keeping it 'in place' on the roller. As shown in the picture, if I had the Fortress up there I'd probably have to keep the rod installed to avoid letting it flap upward if seas picked up.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190616_130458-001.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	63.1 KB
ID:	93822   Click image for larger version

Name:	20180412_123218.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	118.0 KB
ID:	93823   Click image for larger version

Name:	annotated 20180412_123218.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	110.7 KB
ID:	93824  
__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:21 AM   #25
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
These pictures (somewhat poorly) illustrate the hassle of trying to make use of a snubber on the all-chain rode of our EB47.

I don't have any better bow/side view pix, and this one shows the boat during delivery when it still had both the Fortress and the plow anchors in place on the roller. I only keep the plow anchor up there now. It's tough to tell from the side view, but easier from astern, but there's a rod that at the far forward end, presumably there to help avoid the anchor/chain from coming up above the roller. This makes it tedious trying to get anything attached to the chain. Any line attached has to be either fed in from up/over that rod or fed out with the chain. Either one makes for problems. Fed out with the chain means having to carefully grab it with a boat hook, lest it drop into the water. Getting it forward and under that rod is a longer reach than you might think, just looking at these pictures.

I think the rod can be removed, and that would greatly ease putting a snubber on the chain without needing to be reaching out over the end of the roller. With the plow anchor in use it's hook shape seems to be more than sufficient for keeping it 'in place' on the roller. As shown in the picture, if I had the Fortress up there I'd probably have to keep the rod installed to avoid letting it flap upward if seas picked up.
A properly rigged snubber reduces the load on the chain proportional to its length, so it's a puzzle why so many boat builders don't bother to provide an easy way to use what I think is an important safety device.
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:28 AM   #26
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
A properly rigged snubber reduces the load on the chain proportional to its length, so it's a puzzle why so many boat builders don't bother to provide an easy way to use what I think is an important safety device.
No argument there. Likely more focus on design aesthetics than anything else.

The annoying/puzzling part is the GB manual does mention securing the rode to a deck cleat, with no suggestion/mention as to how. Oh, I get that manuals are often vague, and aren't going to explain 'basic stuff'. Doesn't make it any less annoying though.
__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:05 PM   #27
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
There are no clips I've found anywhere demonstrating it's installation and/or use. Just that one stock picture.

Pretty self explanatory.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:52 PM   #28
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
No argument there. Likely more focus on design aesthetics than anything else.

The annoying/puzzling part is the GB manual does mention securing the rode to a deck cleat, with no suggestion/mention as to how. Oh, I get that manuals are often vague, and aren't going to explain 'basic stuff'. Doesn't make it any less annoying though.
I have only seen a few boat manuals, never anything about that in any of them.
I don't have a manual for my boat I figured it out.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Attitude Adjustment
40 Albin
Mystic,Ct. /New Port Richey,Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 04:02 PM   #29
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard View Post
I don't have a manual for my boat I figured it out.
Same here.
Thrown in at the deep end.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 04:08 PM   #30
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Same here.
Thrown in at the deep end.
Some are probably better than others. I've had decent luck with ones for various boats I've owned. Useful to have schematics and diagrams for various systems. Not always accurate, especially if any previous owners have 'helped' but usually better than nothing.

Even better has been having them in PDF form and saved on a dropbox, onedrive, google drive or other cloud service. I've made it a habit to make a folder for each vendor and drop in the PDFs for all of the gear on board. Including install docs, not just owners manuals or spec sheets. Never know when you'll need to now measurements or something. Saves me a trip back to the boat or home.
__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 04:11 PM   #31
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Pretty self explanatory.
Having seen various kinds and tried a few, I'm skeptical of anything claiming to be self explanatory. The Mantus thing, for example, seems like a great idea... until you actually hold one and realize how effectively it'd put a big-ass dent in the fiberglass when you drop it accidentally. Or plan old hooks that want to drop out of the chain links way too easily.

I'm going to give the soft shackles a try.
__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 05:24 PM   #32
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
Having seen various kinds and tried a few, I'm skeptical of anything claiming to be self explanatory. The Mantus thing, for example, seems like a great idea... until you actually hold one and realize how effectively it'd put a big-ass dent in the fiberglass when you drop it accidentally. Or plan old hooks that want to drop out of the chain links way too easily.

I'm going to give the soft shackles a try.
I have that Mantus thing and I never have come close to having it damage any fiberglass. Perhaps it is a function and is particular to the boat. It is quite easy to attach and detach from the chain.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 05:34 PM   #33
Veteran Member
 
Sangraal's Avatar
 
City: Virginia Beach
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Ursa Major
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 54
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 57
The soft shackle is a wonderful invention, easy to make and works well in this application. I use one on my set up with 7/16” chain and a 120# Rocna. No issues since I started with them several years ago now. Making them is fun and easy to do and I have ended up using soft shackles for many applications on our trawler.
__________________
Best,

Paul
Sangraal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 05:26 AM   #34
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,525
"A properly rigged snubber reduces the load on the chain proportional to its length, so it's a puzzle why so many boat builders don't bother to provide an easy way to use what I think is an important safety device."


A properly set up boat would have the snubber secured to a barely above the water plate to keep the anchor angle low , and enough room on deck to install a chain stopper to handle the entire load of the anchored boat when the snubber is not used.
FF is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 09:39 AM   #35
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
"A properly rigged snubber reduces the load on the chain proportional to its length, so it's a puzzle why so many boat builders don't bother to provide an easy way to use what I think is an important safety device."


A properly set up boat would have the snubber secured to a barely above the water plate to keep the anchor angle low , and enough room on deck to install a chain stopper to handle the entire load of the anchored boat when the snubber is not used.

I agree about the chain stopper. You are right about the location of the attachment point for the snubber, other than the difficulty of attaching it on some boats. I can’t reach the waterline at the bow from my deck. That means that the snubber line would be attached there full time.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 11:13 AM   #36
Guru
 
rgano's Avatar
 
City: Southport, Florida
Country: USA
Vessel Name: FROLIC
Vessel Model: Mainship 30 Pilot II since 2015. GB-42 1986-2015. Former Unlimited Tonnage Master
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 702
Send a message via Skype™ to rgano
One consideration when selecting HARDware type snubber attachments is that should the pretty SS devices out there under heavy strain have an undetected stress crack and break, the remaining HARDware on the end of a stretchy bit of nylon line is coming back at you and your boat. A carbon steel device kept in good order is less likely to do that and is likely stronger in the same size. I use neither preferring instead a braided snubber and the knowledge of the proper hitch to secure it to the rode, chain or nylon.
__________________
Rich Gano
FROLIC (2005 MainShip 30 Pilot II)
Panama City area
rgano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 11:37 AM   #37
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgano View Post
...the remaining HARDware on the end of a stretchy bit of nylon line is coming back at you and your boat.
This is good warning for anything attached to a line, heck, even the line itself. Anything put into use that could come under extreme loads presents serious risks of damage, injury and potential death. Best to have a plan thought out ahead of time on how you're going to deal with releasing something in emergency conditions.

This is why I'm somewhat hesitant to consider snubbers designed to use a loop over the onboard cleat. That presumes being able to back the rode up sufficiently to get the loop back over the cleat. My thinking is I'd rather have a cleat knot on a bitter end as there might be easier means to get it back off the cleat under that sort of situation.

Now, I don't foresee being in situations like that all that often, if ever. Especially with other help aboard. Bearing in mind I've had windlass fuse failures (since dealt with by replacing the faulty breaker ahead of the fuse). Manually cranking the windlass up is likewise tedious as the bar for doing so can't readily be stored near it. With someone else at the throttles it "shouldn't be" a big deal to push forward to relieve strain... but in an emergency I'm kinda skeptical of getting my wife/son to make that happen.

Thus my planning tends to focus on how to best, quickly, and safely get situations handled on my own, or with very little directed assistance.
__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 01:13 PM   #38
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
They're made of Dyneema, which is why they are so freaking strong. To attach a soft shackle to the chain, you just pass the loop end through the chain and the thimble, then loop the eye over the knot. Takes about 5 seconds to attach. You only need a 1/4" Dyneema (or equivalent) soft shackle to exceed the strength of the chain many fold. Here's a link to one possible manufacturer: https://www.marlowropes.com/product/dynaline-shackles

You can find them for under $15, or, you can easily make them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangraal View Post
The soft shackle is a wonderful invention, easy to make and works well in this application. I use one on my set up with 7/16” chain and a 120# Rocna. No issues since I started with them several years ago now. Making them is fun and easy to do and I have ended up using soft shackles for many applications on our trawler.
Another fan of the soft shackle here. I use the Davis Line Grabber paired with a Davis Shockle. The Shockle sits at the ready attached at the pulpit cleat. The 2 Line Grabbers are always attached at my most often used chain-only anchoring lengths of 90 and 120 ft of chain. They pass through the windlass gypsy easily and without damage.

When it's time to set the snubber, I just clip the tag end of the Shockle to the Line Grabber loop and deploy 5-10 ft of chain so the Shockle extends beyond the end of the anchor roller with a slack hanging chain loop. It's a very simple attach/detach process with no loose parts to fall overboard or fall off the chain.

If you zoom in on the photo below, you can see the black Shockle hooked to the pulpit cleat and hanging off the stbd side of the pulpit when not in use. The other end of the Shockle has a matching clip to attach to the Line Grabber loop.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Shockle Bow.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	97.4 KB
ID:	93859  
__________________
My boat is my ark. It's my mobile treehouse and my floating fishing cabin. It's my retreat and my respite. Everyday I thank God I have a boat! -Al

@DeltaBridges - 25 Delta Bridges in 25 Days
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 06:06 PM   #39
Guru
 
Simi 60's Avatar
 
City: Queensland
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Milkraft 60 converted timber trawler
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 2,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
Having seen various kinds and tried a few, I'm skeptical of anything claiming to be self explanatory. The Mantus thing, for example, seems like a great idea... until you actually hold one and realize how effectively it'd put a big-ass dent in the fiberglass when you drop it accidentally.
You don't get any instructions with a hammer either and I bet it'd put a big ass dent in your skull if you hit it accidentally.
Most people don't need instructions to figure that out.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2019, 07:16 PM   #40
Guru
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
City: Bethesda, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Solstice
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 47 Eastbay FB
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
You don't get any instructions with a hammer either and I bet it'd put a big ass dent in your skull if you hit it accidentally.
Most people don't need instructions to figure that out.
You'd think so.
__________________

__________________
-- Bill Kearney
2005 Eastbay 47 FB - Solstice
wkearney99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012