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Old 03-01-2016, 02:33 PM   #41
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In industry like cranes ect rigging a shackle may be much more sorted out and there one could probably find the actual best way to use a shackle. On much larger anchors such as found on ships I'm quite sure most anchors are rigged to have the pin through the shank that has a round hole in it's end.

I'm sure the max strength is achieved w the shackle in line w the tension .. in our case the rode and the load applied to the center of the pin. Another thought on that is that when high loads are applied to an anchor shackle it will be in line w the anchor. But if the shackle pin was through the chain link w/o washers the center it a sideways biased load will result on the shackle arms. On Al's post #19 one can see that on our type boats that angle/bias would be quite small. Never seen a shackle rigged w washers to insure that that alignment happens though. I remove my anchors from the rode every time I use them so it would be a little extra effort if I did that. I could blame it on PeterB though.
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Old 03-01-2016, 02:58 PM   #42
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Here's what the pros say...

Shackles (Rocna Knowledge Base)

On this site, they show it both ways.

How to Construct an Anchor Rode | Boating Magazine

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Old 03-01-2016, 03:33 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
Here's what the pros say...

Shackles (Rocna Knowledge Base)

On this site, they show it both ways.

How to Construct an Anchor Rode | Boating Magazine

I have always set mine up with pin in the chain, or whichever way allows me to use the biggest shackle I can fit.
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Old 03-01-2016, 03:46 PM   #44
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I consider Rocna to be a biased source and over zealous promoter of their product that was once produced w unsuitable material. The blame for that rests on Peter Smiths shoulders. I'll never buy a Rocna product or buy into their promotional material and the above is clearly such.

Find a better source of information.

But as per post #38 I have concluded that the pin in the chain is the preferable rigging. The difference is worth talking about only in that greater understanding of boating and specifically anchoring emerges from the discussion.
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Old 03-01-2016, 04:23 PM   #45
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I consider Rocna to be a biased source and over zealous promoter of their product that was once produced w unsuitable material. The blame for that rests on Peter Smiths shoulders. I'll never buy a Rocna product or buy into their promotional material and the above is clearly such.

Find a better source of information.
Eric, it sounds like you have a strong bias, too. You've got some serious blinders on that cause you to ignore sources of professional information. I sincerely doubt any anchor manufacturer would recommend connections to his anchor that would be detrimental to the performance of the anchor he's selling.

Thanks for your advice, but I'll continue to consider professional sources for technical information in areas in which they have considerably more experience than I.
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:34 PM   #46
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Al,
You went easy on me. Thanks
People are still buying Volkswagens too.
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:26 PM   #47
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PeterB if you Don't like the connecting chain link off to one side of the shackle pin it would be easy to insert a few flat washers (even nylon) to center the chain pull on the shackle pin.
Yes, but who does..?
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:28 PM   #48
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Have thought about it and went out and played around with anchor chain and shackle. On my set up, and others I have used...but not all..... I do think one way is a little better.
And that way was...?
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:24 PM   #49
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Peter,
Never seen it but it would even up the tension on each arm of the shackle too.

psneeld is in the pin in chain camp. Unless he's converted like me.
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:25 AM   #50
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Here's what the pros say...

Shackles (Rocna Knowledge Base)

On this site, they show it both ways.

How to Construct an Anchor Rode | Boating Magazine

Looks like the shackle pin runs through the shank on the larger picture, and the pin runs through the chain on the blow-up (C).

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Old 03-02-2016, 10:18 AM   #51
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I consider Rocna to be a biased source and over zealous promoter of their product that was once produced w unsuitable material I'll never buy a Rocna product or buy into their promotional material and the above is clearly such. .
Geez, and I just bought a Vulcan with QA / QC supplied my good friends at Canada Metals. What a fool I am.

Next thing you know my Aluminum anchor made by Fortress will rot away or my anchor shackle be installed upside down. I'm not allowed to use a swivel for fear of facing Marin's wrath. BBB chain is inferior for reasons I cannot grasp.

Maybe I'll go cruising and once again take a badly needed hiatus from all these perplexities.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:06 AM   #52
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Having been around production rigging for most of my career (not a rigger, but I have flown my share of audio arrays). On chain motors, shackle pins always go through the chain to let the dynamic load hanging below to find its center. TBH, there is a lot of contributions to this thread that really don't matter very much (not to belittle yall's contributions at all). Well before a shackle failure or chain failure, the anchor would break out of the bottom (IMHO). Good shackles are extremely strong. That's why they have been around so long and are so widely used. We bought one that was rated the same as our chain (4500#). Does it matter what way they are installed? Probably not. However, I am following what every rigger I have ever met has done... Pin thru the chain.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:08 AM   #53
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Chris,
In the upper Rocna link the pin is through the shank in the pics and here in the Rocna text .....
"Some anchors will not accept the head of an adequately sized shackle, being designed for the pin instead. This necessitates the use of two shackles, connected body-to-body with each other, and the pins through the anchor and the chain respectively. This is less than elegant, and doubles the chance of a shackle failure – well designed anchors, including the Rocna, have an elongated rode attachment point through which the shackle head can pass."
The "less than elegant" and "well designed anchors, including the Rocna," are clearly promotional choices of words. A we know best advertising not to mention the word "knowledge" in the link. All Rocna produced text claims or implies they know best and others are just groping around in the forest.

In the boating magazine link the big illustration does clearly show the anchor shackle attached w the pin through the anchor shank. Good eye Chris.
The man that designed the XYZ anchor in post #1 is an engineer and he obviously thinks the pin should go through the anchor shank. Numerous other anchors are designed the same way. The reason I am able to get the shackle ear (arm end) through the chain link is that it is larger chain than one would normally use (for weight near the anchor). I've always done it that way and never thought about using a smaller chain. Wonder what other people do w the XYZ anchor? Hmmmm. Probably use two shackles. But that would be "less than elegant" ha ha. XYZ supplied me w those shackles. Interestingly they have red colored pins and red pins aren't mentioned in the Rocna link. Probably an industrial color code.

But the enlarged drawing of the shank end and shackle does show the pin through the chain. I wonder if typical shackles used in pleasure boat anchoring are weaker than the chain? Most people probably go to the hardware store for anchor shackles or to the marine store like WM and buy galvanized steel (stronger) or SS shackles if they frequent the yacht club. Most probably don't know if their shackles are as strong as their chain. Most of the time I don't but all my ground tackle is larger than normal. Haha ... excluding most of my anchors.

Smith (or one of his minions) said in the link that the use of two shackles "is less than elegant, and doubles the chance of a shackle failure". Well anyone that fears shackle failure can obviously attach shackles that are rated the same or higher than the chain they are using. And anyone that fears "less than elegant" is already in a yacht club.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:18 AM   #54
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Geez, and I just bought a Vulcan with QA / QC supplied my good friends at Canada Metals. What a fool I am.

Next thing you know my Aluminum anchor made by Fortress will rot away or my anchor shackle be installed upside down. I'm not allowed to use a swivel for fear of facing Marin's wrath. BBB chain is inferior for reasons I cannot grasp.

Maybe I'll go cruising and once again take a badly needed hiatus from all these perplexities.
or just buy whatever heavy duty crap you want, toss it all together and try not to anchor out in heavier winds than say 30 knots sustained and none of it will ever matter...


if you like to challenge tropical storms and more....just ask the guy at the marine store what ensemble you need.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:21 AM   #55
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Geez, and I just bought a Vulcan with QA / QC supplied my good friends at Canada Metals. What a fool I am.

Next thing you know my Aluminum anchor made by Fortress will rot away or my anchor shackle be installed upside down. I'm not allowed to use a swivel for fear of facing Marin's wrath. BBB chain is inferior for reasons I cannot grasp.

Maybe I'll go cruising and once again take a badly needed hiatus from all these perplexities.
Tom,
Did you read my high praise for the appearance of the Vulcan anchor? Several weeks ago I think. I do like it a lot. Wouldn't buy one though considering the source. There also has not been any Vulcan anchors featured in relatively unbiased after market tests. I think it will do quite well when that happens. But I'm not criticizing you for buying one as I use an XYZ regularly that has never been tested.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:23 AM   #56
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How does the hive feel about swivels?

I have always felt they are a weak link, add moving parts not easily inspected and can be of questionable origin and not really necessary.

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Old 03-02-2016, 11:36 AM   #57
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Eric - "In the boating magazine link the big illustration does clearly show the anchor shackle attached w the pin through the anchor shank. Good eye Chris. "

That's why I posted "On this site, they show it both ways."
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:57 AM   #58
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Having been around production rigging for most of my career (not a rigger, but I have flown my share of audio arrays). On chain motors, shackle pins always go through the chain to let the dynamic load hanging below to find its center. .
My experience too, that is how the book is written and courses taught. Last big job I was on there were about 50 cranes with heaviest lift around 100 tons per crane and 2 to 3 attached to one pick.
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:03 PM   #59
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Having been around production rigging for most of my career (not a rigger, but I have flown my share of audio arrays). On chain motors, shackle pins always go through the chain to let the dynamic load hanging below to find its center. TBH, there is a lot of contributions to this thread that really don't matter very much (not to belittle yall's contributions at all). Well before a shackle failure or chain failure, the anchor would break out of the bottom (IMHO). Good shackles are extremely strong. That's why they have been around so long and are so widely used. We bought one that was rated the same as our chain (4500#). Does it matter what way they are installed? Probably not. However, I am following what every rigger I have ever met has done... Pin thru the chain.
Tom.B,
I was hoping we'd get some industrial input. I was a truck driver for quite a few years and have seen a lot of crane work and other rigging but I can't remember any details. Much of it was done w cable ends w/o a thimble and I was not impressed w that. At times though rigging was done by good professionals that seemed to know what they were doing. I drove big trucks at times and picked up loads at the Hanford Nuclear Plant where I had to (at times) wait for a crew to decontaminate the thing I came to get. So at times I'm sure I've seen shackles used properly .. but can't remember details.

But is the "pin through the chain" an accepted standard ..or something that's just done because it looks good or is the thing that comes to mind like what I usually did as a truck driver? I do agree w you that it probably doesn't matter much (or at all) w our anchors as most will break out before the shackle will fail. But what a professional rigger usually does is probably the best thing we've had so far to decide what is best.
You wrote;
"chain motors, shackle pins always go through the chain to let the dynamic load hanging below to find its center"

I'd like you to tell us what the "chain motor" is and what is meant by "find its center"? If you put the pin through the last chain link the shackle will almost always be not lined up .. the chain link will go to one side of the gap between the shackle arms .. not on center. It would seem one shackle arm will be loaded more than the other.
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Old 03-02-2016, 12:09 PM   #60
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Eric - "In the boating magazine link the big illustration does clearly show the anchor shackle attached w the pin through the anchor shank. Good eye Chris. "

That's why I posted "On this site, they show it both ways."
DUHHH ... Can't believe I missed that.
I'll take the magazine over Rocna. They both should be able to be held accountable though. And either should know.
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