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Old 02-29-2016, 12:30 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Rain Dog,
You mean the small eye that the pin goes through or the pin itself through the end chain link?
I am saying putting the pin through the chain link is the only way to attach it to the chain. The shackle body itself will not fit through a chain link, so it could not be attached with the pin through the anchor. I am curious for people attaching the shackle pin to the anchor, what shackles and chain they are using.

For the record I think the pin should always go through the chain link for the reason stated in post #3.
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Old 02-29-2016, 02:28 AM   #22
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Ok, fair comment, but here as an example is my set-up, done especially for the Super Sarca in this case, because the pin must be through the slot in the anchor shank for reasons previously stated.

To get around the issue you raised Rain Dog, of not being able to get the ends of the shackle through the chain, my first pic was when I was still using a swivel, so it went through that ok. I have now, listening to others on here however, dispensed with that, which proved no real loss I must say, and so in the second pic I got around it by using a slightly oversized shackle through the chain, then the anchor shackle through that. Works well, and simpler, especially as the swivel required a second shackle anyway, and that was looking a bit tired, so now there's a nice new shiny larger one in its place, sans swivel. I seize (mouse) my pins with galv'd wire and a cable tie.
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Old 02-29-2016, 06:44 AM   #23
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The larger the shakle , the harder it is for the shank to bury.
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Old 02-29-2016, 07:30 AM   #24
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If you consider using two shackles, you can eliminate almost all of the issues discussed. The pin screw of one of shackles through the anchor hole/slot and the pin of the second shackle through the chain. What you create is a system that almost eliminates the lateral stress on the pin connection as the boat swings and the anchor stays put. Whenever you use one shackle, there will always will be a point where the shackle "locks up" on lateral pull.

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Old 02-29-2016, 07:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bedford View Post
If you consider using two shackles, you can eliminate almost all of the issues discussed. The pin screw of one of shackles through the anchor hole/slot and the pin of the second shackle through the chain. What you create is a system that almost eliminates the lateral stress on the pin connection as the boat swings and the anchor stays put. Whenever you use one shackle, there will always will be a point where the shackle "locks up" on lateral pull.

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Not sure how using 2 shackles is any different.

If the shackle can be half cocked in any way I am not sure that is good.

But pin in anchor or chain usually results in some way the chain could pull funny on the shackle...they really are only designed for straight line pulls...any lateral pull can't be good for them...especially the long ones I see being used in slots.

Now that might be recommended by the engineers as within design limits and OK...probably why we aren't hearing of shackle failures despite the 2 ways they can be used.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:54 AM   #26
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We have high test chain and found alloy shackles fit the link. 1st Chain Supply is just one manufacturer. I think Crosby also sells them.

1st Chain Supply - galvanized alloy steel shackles! Now you don't have to order oversized end links to have shackles that match the strength of your chain. The pins on the alloy shackles below will fit inside the last link of your chain and still be the same strength or higher than your chain.

https://www.1st-chainsupply.com/chai...lass_chain.htm
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:14 AM   #27
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I personally wouldn't worry about the lateral stresses on the pin...large ships routinely have the "pin" through the anchor shank and the "body" part attached to the chain. Certainly if your anchor manufacturer has a recommended setup then I would go that way.

I would, however, recommend the use of a swivel between the anchor and chain, as well as seizing your shackles with seizing wire (or even zip ties)...this will reduce twisting loads on the ground tackle and prevent the shackle pins from working their way out.
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:54 AM   #28
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We have high test chain and found alloy shackles fit the link. 1st Chain Supply is just one manufacturer. I think Crosby also sells them.
This is what I use too.

But as to the original question of which way to attache the shackle, I worry that if you put the body of the shackle through the chain (as pictured in post #1), your shackle is way undersized for your chain. All the shackles I am have personally used will not fit that way if you are using a shackle as strong as your chain.
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Old 02-29-2016, 10:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Rain Dog View Post
This is what I use too.

But as to the original question of which way to attache the shackle, I worry that if you put the body of the shackle through the chain (as pictured in post #1), your shackle is way undersized for your chain. All the shackles I am have personally used will not fit that way if you are using a shackle as strong as your chain.
This is another reason to use a swivel...the eye of the swivel is much larger than the chain link, so you can attach the shackle however you desire.
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Old 02-29-2016, 10:09 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Dog View Post
This is what I use too.

But as to the original question of which way to attache the shackle, I worry that if you put the body of the shackle through the chain (as pictured in post #1), your shackle is way undersized for your chain. All the shackles I am have personally used will not fit that way if you are using a shackle as strong as your chain.
Also why I assumed anchors usually have an elongated hole in their shank (Like Larry's photo) to pass the eye of the shackle...not just the pin.

If they wanted just the pin, I would think a round hole would be best so the shackle couldn't rotate enough it impart a prying motion on the shackle, just shear(?) on the pin.
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Old 02-29-2016, 11:05 AM   #31
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Ok, fair comment, but here as an example is my set-up, done especially for the Super Sarca in this case, because the pin must be through the slot in the anchor shank for reasons previously stated.

To get around the issue you raised Rain Dog, of not being able to get the ends of the shackle through the chain, my first pic was when I was still using a swivel, so it went through that ok. I have now, listening to others on here however, dispensed with that, which proved no real loss I must say, and so in the second pic I got around it by using a slightly oversized shackle through the chain, then the anchor shackle through that. Works well, and simpler, especially as the swivel required a second shackle anyway, and that was looking a bit tired, so now there's a nice new shiny larger one in its place, sans swivel. I seize (mouse) my pins with galv'd wire and a cable tie.
Peter why not just the last chain link through the long anchor shackle? Will the shackle pin ends go through the chain link?
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Old 02-29-2016, 11:25 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Also why I assumed anchors usually have an elongated hole in their shank (Like Larry's photo) to pass the eye of the shackle...not just the pin.

If they wanted just the pin, I would think a round hole would be best so the shackle couldn't rotate enough it impart a prying motion on the shackle, just shear(?) on the pin.
This was covered in post #1 and 11.

However the side load on the shank/shackle using the pin in the shank puts the pin in sheer load but it's in sheer even all lined up. The side pull problem potential is that it develops forces that are acting to pry the shackle ends appart. Of course the pin then goes into tension load and prevents the "prying" force from loading the shaclke in that way. The pin then is taking loads that it probably was designed for. Using a pin w a cotter key in the end would be very questionable. I've never seen this done and assume the threaded pin is engineered for the tension load created by the side loads from a rode and anchor shank mismatch .... ie not lined up.

So I see no structural downside for the shackle or pin w the pin in the shank configuration.
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Old 02-29-2016, 11:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Dog View Post
This is what I use too.

But as to the original question of which way to attache the shackle, I worry that if you put the body of the shackle through the chain (as pictured in post #1), your shackle is way undersized for your chain. All the shackles I am have personally used will not fit that way if you are using a shackle as strong as your chain.
Rain Dog,
I bought that anchor new and the shackle was an option. I liked the shackles so well I bought several of them. The anchor manufacturer really liked them and I'm almost positive they are HT. Just can't remember.

He wanted me to find a fishing boat w several hundred hp to try and pull the 18lb anchor out after a good set. So he had great faith in both the anchor and the shackle. But it was my anchor that would have been lost. And I didn't want to ask someone to go that far out of their way so in the end told or hinted strongly that he should do his own testing.
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Old 02-29-2016, 11:52 AM   #34
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I disagree with a lot of shackle loading assumptions here...and can't even be sure of my own as I am no engineer.


As posted...probably until near working load, maybe even breaking loads are met...will it matter? I don't know. Like many factors in anchoring, the shipper can and often is the weak link right from selecting when and where to anchor.


But I know most things used in rigging are designed to take straight loads and are mated (mostly by design) so that straight loads can be achieved. If impossible, going larger helps...but mostly trying to attain the straight pull is the answer.....I highly suspect the threads in a shackle aren't designed to hold anything...just keep the pin in.
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Peter why not just the last chain link through the long anchor shackle? Will the shackle pin ends go through the chain link?
No Eric, they won't. Otherwise I would have just done that. But to get a shackle that would makes the shackle too small for the loads. Several others have mentioned this same limiting factor in trying to achieve this, so often one ends up needing a swivel to link them, as they have larger loops, or a second shackle as I have.

But here's another thought for all those concerned re asymmetrical loads, twisting and pulling the ends of the shackle apart if the pin is through the shank.

Just think... if the pin of the shackle, which is straight, is through the loop of the chain, with the loop or U of the shackle through the anchor shank hole/slot, tension will pull the chain link along the pin to one end or the other anyway - it certainly is not going to stay nicely centred on the middle of the pin - so, inevitably, even with straight longitudinal pull, there will be a force tending to distract the leg of the shackle away from its mate anyway, either from the pin head end, or the threaded end.
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Old 03-01-2016, 06:58 AM   #36
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Have thought about it and went out and played around with anchor chain and shackle.

On my set up, and others I have used...but not all..... I do think one way is a little better.

I will stick to my guns (usually because I DO think about my posts long and hard) including the point that others have made...probably makes little difference even near max load and usually my point that I never hope to get anywhere's near fully testing my ground tackle.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:23 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
We have high test chain and found alloy shackles fit the link. 1st Chain Supply is just one manufacturer. I think Crosby also sells them.

1st Chain Supply - galvanized alloy steel shackles! Now you don't have to order oversized end links to have shackles that match the strength of your chain. The pins on the alloy shackles below will fit inside the last link of your chain and still be the same strength or higher than your chain.

https://www.1st-chainsupply.com/chai...lass_chain.htm
Yes. SS shackles are usually weaker than proper alloy made ones. The wrong shackle pretty well moots the discussion about which way to mount the connector. Then, did I see another weak link such as an inferior swivel in a picture?

Last but not least, matching chain and pin dimensions allow the largest, multidirectional loads and strongest shackle. That is why Flywright's picture is the right way.
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:59 AM   #38
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OK Tom I'll give ya this one.

I'll agree it's more correct even though many anchors come w a round hole at the end of the shank. I noticed the CQR comes w a round hole. But the Manson plow comes w a slot. I looked on my computer at WM and FS and observed about 85% of the anchors found on trawlers are slotted. Presumably the slot is more expensive to make assuming the slot is made by a milling machine and not a punch. And I think that assumption can be made.

The slot, presumably is put there to allow the passage of the pin ears sideways through the slot. Also the slot allows rotation of the shackle head in the slot. It's not clear that there is an advantage to the rotation function but it's "fairly" clear the shackle rotation may be put there to allow the shackle rotation.

Overwhelming evidence? Nuff for me. I'm a convert.

PeterB if you Don't like the connecting chain link off to one side of the shackle pin it would be easy to insert a few flat washers (even nylon) to center the chain pull on the shackle pin.
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:49 PM   #39
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Uneven pulling of the rode to the side stressing the shackle is of no consequence, the shackle is very strong and can easily take it, as long as it is not a tiny little thing, and it matches the chain it is attached to. I think I used a copper wire to secure the pin in case it works loose. It has never loosened.
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:18 PM   #40
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Uneven pulling of the rode to the side stressing the shackle is of no consequence, the shackle is very strong and can easily take it, as long as it is not a tiny little thing, and it matches the chain it is attached to. I think I used a copper wire to secure the pin in case it works loose. It has never loosened.
If working load is much less than breaking load...how does NOT using it as intended (twisted load, prying action, stress on threads) all factor in?

As I have previously said...I hope to never even come close to working load...but those that are posting "maximum strength"...then I don't think a twisted shackle is "of no consequence".
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