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Old 12-22-2011, 04:50 PM   #21
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Setting a Second Anchor

I always thought the old time anchor alarm was cool.* Tie a sash weight to a length of light*line the same as your anchor*scope...drop the sash weight next to your anchor and pay out scope and alarm line.* Tie off anchor, tie anchor alarm to pin with enough slack to put pin through handle of frying pan.* Hang frying pan from handle...say in a hatch or similar spot...if the anchor drags...the pin is pulled from the frying pan and when it comes crashing down...you pi** the sheets and come on deck a flyin"... WIDE AWAKE ... *


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 22nd of December 2011 05:52:29 PM
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:02 PM   #22
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

Quote:
psneeld wrote:
I always thought the old time anchor alarm was cool.* Tie a sash weight to a length of light*line the same as your anchor*scope...drop the sash weight next to your anchor and pay out scope and alarm line.* Tie off anchor, tie anchor alarm to pin with enough slack to put pin through handle of frying pan.* Hang frying pan from handle...say in a hatch or similar spot...if the anchor drags...the pin is pulled from the frying pan and when it comes crashing down...you pi** the sheets and come on deck a flyin"... WIDE AWAKE ... *

*
*I remember that. *It was the analog system.
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:06 PM   #23
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

Quote:
psneeld wrote:
I always thought the old time anchor alarm was cool.* Tie a sash weight to a length of light*line ....

*I like that.* Simple, reliable, and totally independent of electricity.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:57 AM   #24
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Setting a Second Anchor

Quote:
bobofthenorth wrote:*I got the same email but I'm skeptical, to say the least.* I can see how a smartphone GPS app could work in the main salon with glass on three sides of it but I simply don't see how it will work in our master stateroom where there's effectively no glass.* If its on the nightstand beside me its 4 or 5 feet from the nearest porthole.* If it has any GPS coverage at all the position error on the GPS fix will be so large as to render any anchor alarm function meaningless.* BICBW.
Being skeptical is good. * It's one of the reasons I made it free - it creates a pretty low threshold of pain to try it out with other backups to evaluate how well it works.

I used it pretty seriously for 2 months - every night except for 4 at marinas. *One of the things that I felt was really important was to give a continuous report of the GPS accuracy in feet (from HDOP for those into GPS technology). *In my pilothouse I get 16 feet of accuracy (iPhone 4S). *In my stateroom it shows 32-50 feet of accuracy. *Definitely less.

The iPhone 4 and 4S have a better GPS than the 3G/3GS. *I don't really consider the 3G models as acceptable. *The iPad has slightly less accuracy than the 4/4S - probably due to the larger screen/battery and interference. *It's still acceptable though.

An external GPS can be used by leaving it in the pilothouse. *That would solve a variety of issues and cause a minor powering issue for the GPS. *Additionally, the iPhone could be left in the pilothouse and remote speakers could be used in the stateroom.

DragQueen allows you to set a distance alarm and an accuracy alarm. *There's also an alarm delay (don't know why other alarms don't implement a delay). *The delay removes a great deal of false alarms without causing too much extra risk. *Most people increase the distance too much to avoid false alarms. *This gives a better real solution to the issue of GPS inaccuracy.

And yes, an Android version is coming. *It's already working on my Androids on the boat - same source code. *Then I'll be making the source free and without license so others can take and expand on it. *Programming this GPS type of thing is really quite simple. *I hope the code will entice others to create their own apps across platforms to give us all more tools.

And yes too - powering the iPhone/Android all night is a minor issue to deal with. *A future ActiveCaptain newsletter will provide some examples of what to do. *I use a New Trent product for external power and it is fantastic for overnight use. *It was one of the things I used every night while testing.





-- Edited by ActiveCaptain on Friday 23rd of December 2011 09:02:49 AM
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:53 AM   #25
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

Thanks, Jeff. *Any idea when the Droid version of Drag Queen may be ready?

I have Navionics on my Droid. *Does it work as an overlay on the chart?

I will have to be careful who hears about the apps on my Droid!
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:09 AM   #26
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

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Moonstruck wrote:
Thanks, Jeff. *Any idea when the Droid version of Drag Queen may be ready?

I have Navionics on my Droid. *Does it work as an overlay on the chart?
*I hope to have the Droid version out within a month - I'm swamped with other things. *It just needs to have the user-interface items adjusted for location when it starts up because of the different sized Android device displays. *The actual code works now.

There's no chart overlay. *That would be perhaps DragKing! *DQ is a simple alarm to act as a backup right next to your bed at night.
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:12 AM   #27
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

I have a Garmin networked system. I wired the depth sounder module to the key switch so I could leave the plotter on for the anchor drag feature while minimizing power consumption by leaving the depth sounder off.

I don't have (or want at this point) a "smart phone".
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:57 AM   #28
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

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rwidman wrote:
I have a Garmin networked system. I wired the depth sounder module to the key switch so I could leave the plotter on for the anchor drag feature while minimizing power consumption by leaving the depth sounder off.


*I would think the plotter would take more amps than the depth sounder, No?
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:13 PM   #29
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

Quote:
timjet wrote:rwidman wrote:
I have a Garmin networked system. I wired the depth sounder module to the key switch so I could leave the plotter on for the anchor drag feature while minimizing power consumption by leaving the depth sounder off.
*I would think the plotter would take more amps than the depth sounder, No?

Possibly, but turning off the depth finder saves power regardless.

*
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Old 12-23-2011, 02:59 PM   #30
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

Quote:
ActiveCaptain wrote:Being skeptical is good. * It's one of the reasons I made it free - it creates a pretty low threshold of pain to try it out with other backups to evaluate how well it works.
I used it pretty seriously for 2 months - every night except for 4 at marinas. *One of the things that I felt was really important was to give a continuous report of the GPS accuracy in feet (from HDOP for those into GPS technology). *In my pilothouse I get 16 feet of accuracy (iPhone 4S). *In my stateroom it shows 32-50 feet of accuracy. *Definitely less.

-- Edited by ActiveCaptain on Friday 23rd of December 2011 09:02:49 AM

Don't get me wrong - I certainly appreciate the effort that has gone into this and the free use is pretty generous.* Your experience with HDOP pretty well confirms what I had suspected.* I use an anchor alarm device that I don't think is available for sale yet, and it*may never be for that matter.* What I like about it is the external antenna which resolves my concern about signal attenuation in the stateroom.* Something I have noticed with it though is that there are some pretty wild position changes during the night as the satellite constellation changes.* This may be more of a concern for us northern boaters because the constellation is not usually optimised for us but I'd be interested to hear if you have seen any of that behaviour.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:11 PM   #31
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

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bobofthenorth wrote:This may be more of a concern for us northern boaters because the constellation is not usually optimised for us but I'd be interested to hear if you have seen any of that behaviour.
Well, I really don't think you're right. *I've lived in Maine for 18+ years and have a fair amount of experience testing the software I've written there. *While I haven't anchored in Maine yet with DragQueen, I have done a lot of iPhone/iPad testing in Maine waters. *The accuracy is the same there as it is here in Florida where I am right now. *On my boat with a DGPS signal, I typically see 9' of accuracy everywhere - that's with the GPS antenna on the arch with excellent exposure. *The iPhone 4 typically sees 16 feet of accuracy in the pilothouse.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:21 PM   #32
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

I could pretty easily get in over my head here but the concept is that the satellite constellation is optimised for more central latitudes and is not always optimum for northern latitudes.* Earlier I said "not usually optimised" but the more correct wording would be "not always optimised".* In the case where we have less than optimum constellations then our HDOP goes way up, maybe only for short periods of time but long enough to wake me up in the middle of the night nevertheless.* I don't think smartphones are WAAS enabled but that would be a very useful development for an anchor alarm app.
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Old 12-24-2011, 07:20 PM   #33
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

Have I set a second anchor? Yup. *

Up until last summer, perhaps once or twice, but suddenly I discovered I needed to do it every night.* That was because I was running an over night cruise boat (that won't be named) and the first time I saw it I recognized the anchor was way undersized.* It had a 400lb Navy anchor hanging up front, and when I mentioned it to the owner he assured me it was fine, but if I was worried I could simply tie the second anchor (a huge aluminum Fortress) to the primary. I had no idea how this might work, but he assured me the crew knew how to do it.*

My first trip was from Seattle to Juneau, and the first time I dropped the anchor and backed down on it, I never felt it hook up.* Over the next few days I probably plowed a mile of bottom trying to get that thing to bite.* Fortunately, up to that point the weather was calm every night, but somewhere about Rivers Inlet, the forecast called for rising winds, so I quizzed the mate about using the second anchor.* He said they simply tied the rode from the second anchor (about 30ft) to the shank of the primary, then dropped it over the side first. The theory was one or the other would hook up.*

As the trip went on, the weather stayed windy, and I used both anchors several times.* Once I got to Juneau and the owner was coming to relieve me, I told him we had a fine trip, but I thought he needed a bigger anchor.* He laughed and I went on my way.**

Three weeks later I relieved him for a couple trips, and learned to hate that undersized anchor.* Using Rosepoint, I set an anchor alarm every night, and had many a sleepless night as we plowed the bottom when the wind blew.* I finally ended up deploying the second anchor every night.* It did help, but was a huge pain for the crew to hoist by hand, and after one really windy night, it came up bent making me think it had done the lions share of holding the boat.

Only once were the rodes tangled though, so in a pinch I'd probably do the same thing again, but I'd rather have an over-sized anchor to start with......Arctic Traveller.

Trawler Training and charters at <a href="http://www.arctictraveller.com">www.arctictraveller.com
</a>

*
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Old 12-26-2011, 05:27 AM   #34
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

"and after one really windy night, it came up bent "

Should make great mailbox art , now would seem time for a better grade and size of anchor.

What is the problem with the windlass that the idle side cant be used to lift a second anchor?
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Old 12-26-2011, 02:17 PM   #35
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

There's nothing as refreshing as a good night's sleep on board a boat that's bobbing gently at anchor. But wake to the clunk of two hulls meeting, or the grind of a keel on rocks, and sweet dreams quickly turn to nightmares.

When you drop anchor, you want to make sure the boat is going to stay where you want it to; this means choosing the right location considering the swinging circle and type of bottom, properly setting the hook, and measuring out the right amount of scope. Being able to drop a second anchor, and knowing the technique, increases your options and your security. Two anchors can improve your grip on the bottom, accommodate changes in wind or current direction better, and reduce the area in which the boat swings.
<h4>The Second Anchor</h4>
Obviously, you won't be able to set two anchors if you only have one on board. Apart from being able to double up, there are a couple of other good reasons for carrying extra ground tackle. With two anchors of different designs you can choose the best one for the type of bottom; and if you have to leave a snagged anchor on the bottom, it won't be your only one.

There are a number of different methods and applications for setting two anchors. Here are two that cover a variety of situations.
<h4>The Bahamian Moor</h4>
One of the most useful methods for setting a pair of anchors is called The Bahamian Moor. Here anchors are set about 180 from each other, with the boat resting comfortably in between. Apart from the security of two anchors, the most significant advantage is a greatly reduced swinging circle: a real benefit in a crowded anchorage.
<table style="width:450px;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="50%">The technique is to drop the first anchor well to leeward of where you want the boat to finally sit while at anchor -- we'll call this the mooring target. This anchor is dropped from the stern so there's no chance of snagging the rode as the boat motors away to windward (1). Moving to windward, line is paid out until the boat is over the mooring target with the correct scope. Then the line is made fast to a stern cleat, forward power is applied and the anchor is set.</td><td width="50%"><center></center></td></tr><tr><td width="50%"><center></center></td><td width="50%">The leeward line is then uncleated and paid out as the boat continues to windward and the second hook is lowered from the bow. The boat is then backed away, line is paid out to the desired scope, made fast, and the second anchor is set (2). Again, care must be taken to keep the leeward line away from the prop, rudder and keel.</td></tr><tr><td width="50%">The leeward anchor line is now led forward and secured at the bow so the boat is free to swing by pivoting (3). It's important that the distance between the two anchors and the boat is sufficient to allow the anchor line to trail at a deep enough angle so it's clear of the keel. Having an all-chain rode helps as its weight holds it closer to the bottom.</td><td width="50%"><center></center></td></tr></tbody></table>
*

To get underway, line is paid out from the windward anchor and taken in from the leeward so the boat can drift back over the leeward anchor. Once it's off the bottom, the boat then motors up to collect the windward anchor. As always, care must be taken to avoid fowling the lines on the underside of the boat.

The Bahamian Moor works well when the wind direction is expected to remain fairly constant or shift a full 180, such as from an on-shore to an off-shore breeze, or when tidal current will reverse direction. It's not ideal when the wind blows 90 to the anchor lines. For these conditions, another method is better...
<h4>Two Anchors at 45</h4>
Setting two anchors at roughly 45 off the bow is another way of reducing swing while gaining improved holding power. This method shares the load between both anchors, and provides a backup if one anchor drags. Swing is reduced because the boat can only move in the area where the swing circles of each anchor overlap.

This is a good method to use if the wind is shifty or makes significant changes in direction..
<table style="width:450px;height:510px;" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td width="50%">
The first hook is set in the usual way, keeping in mind that the mooring target will be somewhere between the two anchors.

2. When sufficient scope is paid out, the boat is again brought to windward this time to either port or starboard of the first anchor.
</td><td width="50%"><center></center></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2">The anchor line should be kept taut to ensure the boat stays on the outer limits of its swing circle, and it's important to move slowly so the anchor isn't jerked loose. When the first line is perpendicular to the boat's centerline, the second anchor is dropped and set. Both rodes are then adjusted so the boat rides with roughly equal scope on each anchor.</td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" width="50%"><center></center></td><td valign="bottom" width="50%"><center></center></td></tr></tbody></table>
*

So, when an anchorage puts you in a tight spot or provides less than desired shelter from wind or current, take this prescription for a good night's sleep:
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Old 12-26-2011, 03:31 PM   #36
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

Quote:
FF wrote:
Should make great mailbox art , now would seem time for a better grade and size of anchor.

What is the problem with the windlass that the idle side cant be used to lift a second anchor?
*In the West, we call it "yard art"* As for a better anchor, I left hints everywhere on the boat when I finished my rotation.* I copied catalog pages of anchors and left the photos everywhere on the bridge. I took one and wrote "for a better nights sleep, use one before bedtime" and taped it on the overhead so when he laid down to sleep he would see it. I even unrolled the toilet paper, inserted one and rolled it back up so it would fall out later.* The last thing I did was change the screen saver on the nav system to a picture of a huge anchor with the words, "we need a new anchor".

When I came back for another rotation, he had changed it to read "we LOVE our anchor"* As you might guess, no new anchor.

As for the windlass, there is no idle side, since it's a commercial hydraulic drum type with just one drum......Arctic Traveller
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:30 PM   #37
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

I've used 2 anchors plenty of times. In tight anchorages , if others are on two. In tidal creeks, hang on one for the Ebb and the other for the flood. One anchor will work here , depending on stength of tide(current), bottom conditions and the ability of the anchor to reset itself 4 times a day! I sleep better with 2! I also will sometimes set 2 for a big blow about 30 degrees either side of the expected wind direction. Anchor Alarms work if you don't sleep through them!
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:10 PM   #38
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RE: Setting a Second Anchor

Quote:
ActiveCaptain wrote:Moonstruck wrote:
Thanks, Jeff. *Any idea when the Droid version of Drag Queen may be ready?

*
*I hope to have the Droid version out within a month..

*"DragQueen Anchor Alarm" was uploaded and accepted by the Android Market today. *It's free and available. *Source is being packaged up for a Wednesday release.
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #39
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Setting a Second Anchor

Hi.

Setting one. then travelling sideways to end of scope. set other one. Haul back to half of original scope. Let both out to suit from there and tie off. is one way we use.

But if ground at all "iffy". I normally lower one on 10 ft of chain. Shackle that to head of my admiralty pick.
Then lower rest of way, and set as usual.
Normally use the Plough or Bruce first, ahead of primary.
And the only anchor I would use to go to sleep on. Anywhere. after 60ish yrs at sea.
Is a LARGE admiralty pick. with bigger flukes welded onto the arms of.

my 34 ft yacht has a 60lb one side of stemhead. and 35lb Plough t'other.
Primary. ALL chain. Secondary. chain and 100mtrs 19mm nylon.
Storm\Mooring anchor (80lb Admiralty) under stairs with swivel and 40ft of chain.

42 fter had. 75lb Admiralty. 45lb plough. Both had quick release sand anchors for a brake at stern.

These modern toys may be ok on a day anchorage.

But if I'm going to sleep. I'll stick to the proven over decades anchors thank you.
Admiralty. Plough, and Bruce on a short scope only.
As big as I can carry and handle...

*

Alarm.*

Garmin have good alarm. and with Radar sleeping on proximity radius alarm.

. That covers you. and others moving into your radius.



-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 14th of January 2012 05:38:28 PM


-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 14th of January 2012 05:41:59 PM
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:50 PM   #40
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Setting a Second Anchor

Quote:
macka17 wrote:
Hi.

Setting one. then travelling sideways to end of scope. set other one. Haul back to half of original scope. Let both out to suit from there and tie off. is one way we use.

But if ground at all "iffy". I normally lower one on 10 ft of chain. Shackle that to head of my admiralty pick.
Then lower rest of way, and set as usual.
Normally use the Plough or Bruce first, ahead of primary.
And the only anchor I would use to go to sleep on. Anywhere. after 60ish yrs at sea.
Is a LARGE admiralty pick. with bigger flukes welded onto the arms of.

my 34 ft yacht has a 60lb one side of stemhead. and 35lb Plough t'other.
Primary. ALL chain. Secondary. chain and 100mtrs 19mm nylon.
Storm\Mooring anchor (80lb Admiralty) under stairs with swivel and 40ft of chain.

42 fter had. 75lb Admiralty. 45lb plough. Both had quick release sand anchors for a brake at stern.

These modern toys may be ok on a day anchorage.

But if I'm going to sleep. I'll stick to the proven over decades anchors thank you.
Admiralty. Plough, and Bruce on a short scope only.
As big as I can carry and handle...

*

Alarm.*

Garmin have good alarm. and with Radar sleeping on proximity radius alarm.

. That covers you. and others moving into your radius.



-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 14th of January 2012 05:38:28 PM



-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 14th of January 2012 05:41:59 PM
*OK Ahab...suprised you would use electronic alarms when a frying pan alarm is so much more accurate and foolproof...


-- Edited by psneeld on Saturday 14th of January 2012 05:50:48 PM
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