Setting anchor

[No Mast]

Having learned the hard way that the shear pin in the windlass is the weak point in the entire setup, and knowing I don't want to pull 130 ft of chain and anchor by hand again, we now have a new anchoring technique. We attach the bridle preferably before the chain is taking the strain of the boat, and definitely before we back down on the anchor.

Of course if I were smarter I'd have spare shear pins with me.

 

[foreverunderway]

I only set the anchor with the engine if there is no wind at all or if I'm Med mooring.
I will drop my anchor, pay out the chain as the wind blows me back and set the brake on the windlass at 3x the depth. She will round up bow to wind and I know the anchor has set. I may pay out a bit more chain and then I put on the snub line. We have not dragged once in over 5 years of living on the hook with our ½" chain and 88# Rocna. We dove on the Rocna for the first year or so after acquiring it, and it was very rare that it moved more than its own length before digging in.

To answer your question directly, yes, when I must set the chain with the engine, I do it with the chain on the gypsy. But I do not do it hard or with any speed. It is a gentle tug to ensure the chain is laid out straight and the anchor has begun to dig in.

 

[RickyD]

Ok everybody, don't yell at me. For 20 years on my sailboat at my favorite anchoring behind a headland at Catalina Island, I would motor my boat slowly towards shore. At about 40' depth on my old flasher depth finder I'd start dropping the anchor. Yes over the bow. Then fairly quickly put the engine in neutral. Glide into about 10' depth and snub the line. When the boat inertia would set the anchor and we would spin a 180, I'd throw out a stern hook. Then position myself further out. Stetting the stern hook along the way. Worked many time perfectly except once when we picked up a bunch of kelp on the danforth and she just slid along the bottom. Had to hurry to turn the boat out with the tiller and then motor out to retrieve and reset.

In my first trawler, I always backed down very slowly on my CQR which always set well. Did not snub until after being set. I love a protected anchorage and I would mostly spin around my chain rode rather than actually pulling on the anchor. Slept like a baby with a slight rocking motion.

 

[BrianSmith]

We attach the snubbers, then back down to set, then throttle up to 1,000 rpm and watch the last numbers on lat and long.

 

[Steve Bedford]

BrianSmith wrote: “We attach the snobbery, then back down to set. Then throttle up to 1,000 rpm and watch the last numbers on the lat and long.”

No Mast wrote: “We attach the bridle preferably before the chain is taking the strain of the boat, and definitely before we back down on the anchor.”

This is pretty much exactly what we do when we are anchoring for an overnight stay. At 3:1 or 4:1, I just pull the chain taunt without a bridle or snubber or device to remove the load from the windlass. Just enough for me to be confident the Super Max is in a good hold on the seabed. Then I lay out the scope I want and I attach a bridle just for backing down that I secure to the chain with a rolling hitch and back down at 1000 rpms. That bridle has less stretch than the snubber. Remove the rolling hitch lay out a little more with the actual snubber.

Perhaps over kill to protect the windlass but it works for me. On retrieving the anchor, if there is no strain on the chain after removing the snubber, I will use the windlass to “move the boat forward” as the chain comes in. However, if/when the chain becomes taunt, I stop the windlass and if forward momentum does not continue (and slacken the chain), we use the diesel. The anchor typically requires me to use the diesel to break free from the seabed. (No, I choose not to use a trip line.)

Steve

 

[Peter B]

Ok everybody, don't yell at me. For 20 years on my sailboat at my favorite anchoring behind a headland at Catalina Island, I would motor my boat slowly towards shore. At about 40' depth on my old flasher depth finder I'd start dropping the anchor. Yes over the bow. Then fairly quickly put the engine in neutral. Glide into about 10' depth and snub the line. When the boat inertia would set the anchor and we would spin a 180

No need to be bashful Ricky. I'm from a yachting (sailboats) background originally, as are many on here, and I have described this tactic several times. What you describe is a recognised yachtie's anchor drop. I still often use the technique as I enter an anchorage, from upwind especially, and it works just as well on a trawler style vessel - even better in some ways, as you don't run any risk of the chain getting on the wrong side of the keel. I usually throw a bit of helm to one side or the other, depending on wind direction, to make sure the chain clears the skeg and hull, and yes, the momentum sets the pick nicely. Letting out the required amount of rode for over-nighting then a very relaxed affair.

 

[dwhatty]

Used to anchor under sail in my youthful days.

Now I sit on my "trawler" at our mooring at cocktail time and watch a schooner of the Maine charter fleet (aka cattle boats) come into the harbor under sail, drop the anchor and chain while underway under sail.

Anchor grabs.

Schooner rounds up into the wind.

Beautiful. Timeless.

 

[koliver]

Ricky: That is the technique I used frequently in my sailboats. I have bigger and better ground tackle on the trawler, and use that technique rarely. With a 10k lb sailboat and a small danforth, that worked well and never left any risk of not setting the first time.
On the trawler, with 44k lbs, and a CQR, never a failed set by simply dropping and backing up, one engine at idle.
No I don't attach the snubber before setting. I leave the chain in the gypsy and use the brake to control the amount that goes out as/after setting.

 

[dhays]

This is pretty much exactly what we do when we are anchoring for an overnight stay. At 3:1 or 4:1, I just pull the chain taunt without a bridle or snubber or device to remove the load from the windlass. Just enough for me to be confident the Super Max is in a good hold on the seabed. Then I lay out the scope I want and I attach a bridle just for backing down that I secure to the chain with a rolling hitch and back down at 1000 rpms. That bridle has less stretch than the snubber. Remove the rolling hitch lay out a little more with the actual snubber.

Perhaps over kill to protect the windlass but it works for me. On retrieving the anchor, if there is no strain on the chain after removing the snubber, I will use the windlass to “move the boat forward” as the chain comes in. However, if/when the chain becomes taunt, I stop the windlass and if forward momentum does not continue (and slacken the chain), we use the diesel. The anchor typically requires me to use the diesel to break free from the seabed. (No, I choose not to use a trip line.)

Steve, I’m confused by your bridle vs snubber. You have a bridle that you use to set the anchor, then do you remove the bridle and attach a snubber? Can you describe a bit what you use as a bridle and then what you use as a snubber? Why the snubber instead of the bridle? Why set with the bridle and not the snubber?

When I raise anchor in calm conditions with little wind or current, I’ll use the Windlass to reduce the chain catenary and then allow the chain weight to start the boat moving forward. I’ll bring the chain just slowing enough to not eliminate the catenary yet allow the chain weight to pull the boat forward. Like you, if there is wind or current then I have my wife move the boat forward with the engine.

Most of the time, I can raise the anchor, washing the chain down as I go, rinse off the anchor, get it secured, put the cover on the windlass, shut off the water to the wash down hose, and make my way back to the pilot house to start piloting the boat without much fuss. Nice to have calm weather most of the time.

 

[MYTraveler]

I set it hard (backing down with both engines ramping up to 3/4 throttle -- with a sand bottom, it is easy to feel it dig in and to be confident that it will hold), while on the windlass, and rarely use a snubber. I have an all-chain rode, but contrary to conventional wisdom, do not experience any shock/jerk, even without a snubber. It seems that the catenary absorbs the shock very nicely.

 

[markpierce]

I drop anchor (Chinese version of a Bruce), and every time the current or wind sets the anchor securely. Good mud in the San Francisco estuary!

 

[Nomad Willy]

How do you know it’s secure Mark? Ever hooked a tree or log?

MYTravler wrote;
“I have an all-chain rode, but contrary to conventional wisdom, do not experience any shock/jerk, even without a snubber. It seems that the catenary absorbs the shock very nicely.”

I’ve been think’in that all along w the large amount of snubber talk recently. But w/o much chain (a boat length or less) the rode is the best snubber known. But I agree w you re the above.

 

[Shrew]

When the wind gets high enough, I can hear my snubbers creaking and groaning. I would not want to put those loads on the windlass.

 

[DDW]

It seems that the catenary absorbs the shock very nicely.

The chain catenary will absorb the shock well. Until it doesn't. In ordinary conditions there is not enough surge energy to straighten the chain. In really strong storm conditions there is, then you want something stretchy somewhere in the system. Rigging the snubber in 50 knots and a seaway at 3 AM in driving rain on rare occasion, has to be traded off with doing it every time at anchor/cocktail hour.

 

[sunchaser]

The chain catenary will absorb the shock well. Until it doesn't. In ordinary conditions there is not enough surge energy to straighten the chain. In really strong storm conditions there is, then you want something stretchy somewhere in the system. Rigging the snubber in 50 knots and a seaway at 3 AM in driving rain on rare occasion, has to be traded off with doing it every time at anchor/cocktail hour.

Your assuming all vessels need snubbers 100% of time. A good chain stopper suffices for many under most conditions. The stopper can be a short line to a cleat, locking pawl on horizontal windlass or deck fitting with a bolt through the chain.

I am currently surrounded by all manners of commercial vessels with nice stout deck mounted horizontal windlass drums and nary a “snubber” arrangement in sight. Possibly Eric is correct, the snubber discussion is a new phenomena brought about by flimsy fore decks and light weight vertical capstans that many of us utilize.

This BS aside, selecting a secure anchorage when big blows are predicted is sure a nice attraction of SE Alaska.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sunchaser,
Perhaps brought on mostly as a few people mentioned it and then a whole bunch thought the old salts all use snubbers. Instant buzz word. All ya gotta do is flip it out and all think you’re a sage old salt.

 

[motion30]

I am a bit confused and I have heard this scenario from others. Where they set their anchor with a short scope and then let out more chain once the anchor is in the sea bottom. That really makes no sense to me if anything you would set your anchor with a long scope they make sure it digs in and then if you need to shorten up the scope

 

[Nomad Willy]

I agree basically w you motiom,
But many anchors perform better at long scope and many at short scope too. And many in-between. And since few of us know our own anchors in this way and personally I know of no way to “look it up”. Good for independent folks but very frustrating for black and white or bythe book types. One can (over time) notice when their anchor performs less than perfect at various scopes. Every time you anchor it’s an opportunity to learn about your anchor.

So if it makes no sense to you perhaps you should experiment during benign conditions so you’re better prepared when things get nasty. I do know of one anchor that during anchor tests did better at shorter scope than longer.

 

[Steve Bedford]

Steve, I’m confused by your bridle vs snubber. You have a bridle that you use to set the anchor, then do you remove the bridle and attach a snubber? Can you describe a bit what you use as a bridle and then what you use as a snubber? Why the snubber instead of the bridle? Why set with the bridle and not the snubber?

Let me try to explain (probably easier to do than explain. If I had better skills on attaching diagrams on this list I could draw it.): To set the anchor, I have a specific line for this process. One end has a loop that I attach the starboard forward large cleat. There is a loop (made with a knot) at a specific location on the line. The knotted loop goes over the port forward large cleat. The line that extends beyond the knotted loop is then secured the exact middle of the section of the line between the two loops using a rolling hitch. The bitter end of the line then can extend directly next to the chain in the bow roller slot. I attach the bitter end to the chain using a rolling hitch while in the bow roller slot.

The distance between the two loops in the line is long enough to allow the loop to be just forward of the windlass. When setting the anchor and pulling the rode tight with the engines, I feed a little more chain out until the line is tight and and the chain from the windlass to the rolling hitch is relaxed (no tension on the windlass). I continue to back down until set. The rolling hitch is attached to the chain so that when pulling taunt, the knot is just forward of the bow roller. When I feel the set is secure, I go to neutral and reverse the windlass for only about a foot or so to untie the rolling hitch.

I remove the “setting line” (whatever one wants to call this) and install the snubber which attaches to the same cleats, goes through the anti-chafing rail chocks, under each side of the rails, and then attach to the chain using a rolling hitch (about the same place where I attached the setting line). I feed out the chain until the snubber is taking the tension and the chain aft of the rolling hitch is relaxed.

Okay, why two lines that seem to do the same thing? The “setting line” is shorter and follows through the bow roller exactly along the same path as the chain. It is easy to retreive and release. The snubber bridle (if that is what some would call this) is longer and of course the two sides do not follow along the chain in the bow roller. If something happens that I do not like in the setting process, this “setting line” is much easier to remove or re-adjust.

Hope this makes sense. Works for me quite nicely.

Steve

 

[Nomad Willy]

Steve Bedford wrote;
“If I had better skills on attaching diagrams on this list I could draw it.”

Cameras are so good now at short focal length when I really want to post a drawing I get out a 8x11 tablet and a black marking pen. Make the drawing using the whole 8x11 page. Put it on my desktop and post it as a picture. It’s so simple I don’t know why I don’t do it more often.

Just did this in about two minutes w my 14” i-pad. I do have trouble getting pics oriented right w my i-pad. Here’s another I drew for a boating forum on FB.

 

[Delfin]

How do you know it’s secure Mark? Ever hooked a tree or log?

MYTravler wrote;
“I have an all-chain rode, but contrary to conventional wisdom, do not experience any shock/jerk, even without a snubber. It seems that the catenary absorbs the shock very nicely.”

I’ve been think’in that all along w the large amount of snubber talk recently. But w/o much chain (a boat length or less) the rode is the best snubber known. But I agree w you re the above.

Catenary does supply all the shock absorbtion you need. Until it starts blowing, then it fails, which is one main reason why people use snub lines.

 

[Delfin]

I am a bit confused and I have heard this scenario from others. Where they set their anchor with a short scope and then let out more chain once the anchor is in the sea bottom. That really makes no sense to me if anything you would set your anchor with a long scope they make sure it digs in and then if you need to shorten up the scope

Others may have a different take, but the rationale is that if an anchor is "set" at short scope, it will likely only improve its set with more scope. If it is set with long scope, you have no guarantee it will remain set when you then shorten scope.

 

[dhays]

Okay, why two lines that seem to do the same thing? The “setting line” is shorter and follows through the bow roller exactly along the same path as the chain. It is easy to retreive and release. The snubber bridle (if that is what some would call this) is longer and of course the two sides do not follow along the chain in the bow roller. If something happens that I do not like in the setting process, this “setting line” is much easier to remove or re-adjust.



Hope this makes sense. Works for me quite nicely.



Steve

Makes perfect sense, thanks. I do something very similar. I use a short line that has a chain hook spliced on the end. The opposite end is cleated to a cleat next to the windlass. This is what I use for setting the anchor and securing the anchor while under way.

Once the anchor is set, I take off this time, and attached a bridle.

 

[Steve Bedford]

Setting Anchor

Eric wrote: “Cameras are so good now at short focal length when I really want to post a drawing I get out a 8x11 tablet and a black marking pen. Make the drawing using the whole 8x11 page. Put it on my desktop and post it as a picture. It’s so simple I don’t know why I don’t do it more often.“

Here goes. Hope the diagram/pic uploaded.

Steve

 

[Delfin]

Your assuming all vessels need snubbers 100% of time. A good chain stopper suffices for many under most conditions. The stopper can be a short line to a cleat, locking pawl on horizontal windlass or deck fitting with a bolt through the chain.

I am currently surrounded by all manners of commercial vessels with nice stout deck mounted horizontal windlass drums and nary a “snubber” arrangement in sight. Possibly Eric is correct, the snubber discussion is a new phenomena brought about by flimsy fore decks and light weight vertical capstans that many of us utilize.

This BS aside, selecting a secure anchorage when big blows are predicted is sure a nice attraction of SE Alaska.

It's less of an issue with Delfin, but we started using a snub line on our sailboat so we didn't have to listen to the chain grinding through the night. Not a fad, just a desire for a good night's sleep.

This is a pretty good description of our technique, and rationale. I'd use a longer snubber that Novak does, but the principle is the same.

 

[Steve Bedford]

Setting Anchor

Snubber diagram/Pic:

Steve

 

[Steve Bedford]

Setting Anchor

Snubber pic/diagram:
Hopefully this time it works!

Steve

 

[sunchaser]

It's less of an issue with Delfin, but we started using a snub line on our sailboat so we didn't have to listen to the chain grinding through the night. Not a fad, just a desire for a good night's sleep.

Good post Carl. I’d guess this mirrors most of the thinking on this thread. Certainly the case with us.

Anchoring techniques in higher winds with +5 foot surge is a whole different story. The South Pacific Islands being a good example. On power boats in the high surge waters a well oversized anchor and chain and heavy duty chain stopper is the preference of many. It would seem that chafe issues largely negate the use of a traditional (description varies) rope snubber unless backed up by a stout chain stopper.

 

[Delfin]

Good post Carl. I’d guess this mirrors most of the thinking on this thread. Certainly the case with us.

Anchoring techniques in higher winds with +5 foot surge is a whole different story. The South Pacific Islands being a good example. On power boats in the high surge waters a well oversized anchor and chain and heavy duty chain stopper is the preference of many. It would seem that chafe issues largely negate the use of a traditional (description varies) rope snubber unless backed up by a stout chain stopper.

Delfin has a very stout top roller the snub line goes over, with the chain feeding out through a lower roller, so snub line chafe over that top roller is not an issue. If a vessel doesn't have strong attachment points for a snub line that give a fair lead, IMHO one should be provided. Chafe is one of the reasons why I don't much care for bridles, since chafe is much harder to prevent.

You kind of see the roller setup in this picture, taken before I put the masts back on, or completed the interior work.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Delfin,
I wasn’t saying the snubber was a fad. Just the word and talking about it on TF.

That would make a better avatar (pic in your post #59) than your current avatar. It looks a bit like your boat is bent down in the middle. I’ll bet you’ve got much better pics than 59 too.