screw pin vs bolt type schackles

[Sue Freeman]

Our ground tackle is woefully inadequate so I'm doing research to upgrade it. The shackle currently on it is a screw pin but I see anchor shackles come in screw pin and bolt type. Are there advantages of one over the other for an anchor system? If you were starting fresh, which would you choose?
Sue Freeman
36' Grand Banks Europa

 

[6-Pack]

What is your current ground tackle?

 

[Sue Freeman]

Kind of irrelevant but, we have a 40 pound Danforth type anchor (I just bent the shaft on it) on a rusted old 135 foot chain which is bolted into the chain locker. It has a rusted old shackle (screw pin, I think) and a rusted old swivel, It's probably equipment that was original to the 1992 boat. I don't think the previous owners anchored out much. As I said, it's woefully inadequate in many respects.

 

[psneeld]

Kind of irrelevant but, we have a 40 pound Danforth type anchor (I just bent the shaft on it) on a rusted old 135 foot chain which is bolted into the chain locker. It has a rusted old shackle (screw pin, I think) and a rusted old swivel, It's probably equipment that was original to the 1992 boat. I don't think the previous owners anchored out much. As I said, it's woefully inadequate in many respects.

Most people I know use the screw pin...not that it's better...maybe just a tad handier to undo with a crescent wrench or fid.

The 40 pound Danforth I think is appropriate for boats up to 45 feet or so...but a bent shaft unless straightened to near original shape is a problem.

 

[6-Pack]

Kind of irrelevant

I was just curious as we have a 45LB CQR and have had success with it but have heard great things about the Rocna. Clearly a sidetrack from your pin question! If I was replacing the ground tackle it is something I would consider and I was wondering if you were going to stick with the Danforth.

 

[Sue Freeman]

I've been doing a lot of reading and research. We're going to go with a Manson Supreme and keep the straightened out Danforth as our second anchor. I hear the Rocnas are now made in China of inferior metals. If you can find an original one (pre-China) they're great - from what I've read.

 

[BruceK]

Our ground tackle is woefully inadequate so I'm doing research to upgrade it. The shackle currently on it is a screw pin but I see anchor shackles come in screw pin and bolt type. Are there advantages of one over the other for an anchor system?

Presumably the issue on pin type is retention. Is the existing pin "moused", ie stainless steel lockwired in place? Neither of my 2 powerboats had the pin wired at purchase, the current one is since I upgraded the anchor. Lockwiring is the reason for the hole in the flat end of the pin.
There have been massive past thread discussions on anchor types and makes including Rocna, Sarca, Lewmar, Bruce etc, dealing with advantages,disadvantages, construction qualities of certain brands varying with country of manufacture and change of brand owner, etc etc. You could make those threads part of your research.

 

[psneeld]

While I have a Manson Supreme and am not sold on anything else in particular except some sort of Danforth/Fortress as a high holding backup....

You may want to recheck the Rocna info...heard that's been resolved but I haven't been able to personally verify.

 

[HopCar]

Make sure the safe working load of the shackle is as strong or stronger than the rest of your rode. If you use a bolt type of shackle it should have a cotter pin to prevent the nut from coming off. If you use a screw pin, be sure to safety wire it.

I use a Wichard self locking stainless steel shackle that matches the strength of my chain.

 

[HopCar]

A Canada Metal sales rep was in my store about a week ago. Rocna was bought by Canada Metal in 2011. He assured me that the metal issue was resolved. I don't remember if he said they were still made in China. They might be as Canada Metal has their chain made in China. The chain looks pretty good.

I'm not convinced that roll bar anchors are the best but a lot of people think they are. I like my Delta.

 

[Brooksie]

I have both CQR 45 & Danforth Hi-Tinsel aboard and easy to change over. At first I used the CQR because I had heard good things and had never used one b/4. However, I found myself having to change over to the Danforth several times during my first 6 weeks of cruising. Finally the Danforth was left in place and no more problems. (all chain rode)

I never have had a problem with my Danforths on my Cape Cod boat and anyone I have met who does, seems not to have HiTinsel models but Std or Deepset. (nylon & chain rode)

 

[timjet]

I'm not convinced that roll bar anchors are the best but a lot of people think they are. I like my Delta.

Diverging a bit, I agree. My Delta has held well in everything except one condition. With no chain and only rope the anchor would not hold in mud. I re-installed the 50' chain but have not anchored in similar conditions.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sue I've always had and used the screw type pin and lock wired w light SS wire. I usually have several lengths of pre-cut lengths of wire ready to go. I've thought of using a screw w a drilled end (the threaded end) and safety wiring through the drilled hole instead of the shackle and screw pin hole. I've always wondered if the wire could get pinched and break.

I have a Manson Supreme and tend to lean toward anchors w good holding on short scope. For one reason or another lots of swinging room is frequently not at hand. The Supreme performs well at 3-1.

You'd probably need a few days to read all the fiction and fact about anchoring and anchors here on TF in older posts. You may be just as well off if you just went out and picked an anchor. There's a ton of guys here that think all chain is golden but I think it can be proven that a combination rode is superior. And if you are of a mind to have lots of weight in your rode that weight is best spent on the anchor itself.

 

[FF]

"type anchor"

Only the real thing not a Chinese or similar backyard copy "type anchor" is acceptable for overnight.

2 different styles is the best choice , eg. a real CQR and a Danforth H series is common.

A Danforth and a Bruce would not be different types.

If you will be south in coral an all chain rode is required , otherwise nylon is easier to cruise with.IMO

The Eye style shackels still need a tool to tighten and a piece of coat hangar wire as a safety tie is easy and fast.

 

[psneeld]

I don't think too many cruisers are convinced all chain is superior...just handier and less fuss than a combo rode in terms of retrieval and general handling. Although FF is quick to point out that chain tends to come back dirtier...I contend nylon stays wet and smells longer...so again it's a debate not a final answer on just one more item in the "great anchoring debate".

I feel a combo rode would be superior for severe conditions...but I never plan in anchoring in them because I have radios, charts, internet, a well maintained engine and a towing service...and lastly a cruising plan that shouldn't put me in that situation where I'll need the "ultimate setup". If I cruised in areas such as Alaska with williwaws or similar...my practices might be a bit different.

So for me I went with what would work well for general cruising and was easiest to assemble, handle and maintain. Much of the benefit of a combo rode are there also with an all chain rode if you use a snubber anyway.

So use either one as saying one is better than aother is still not an absolute and many will agree that no one anchor does it all anyway...cruisers should always carry what they think they should need based on their grounds and habits and a spare if they don't want to panic shop immediately upon losing their primary.

 

[Boydski]

I've thought of using a screw w a drilled end (the threaded end) and safety wiring through the drilled hole instead of the shackle and screw pin hole. I've always wondered if the wire could get pinched and break.

The bolt-type shackle is used a lot in large anchoring systems and the cotter pins or wire mousing can be problematic, with corrosion, physical damage, etc, causing the cotter pin to fail or wire to break. If the shackle will be semi-permanent, the nut is often welded to the bolt to prevent it from coming loose.

On large shackles, one of the advantages of the bolt type pin is that the nut can be loosened and the pin driven out with a hammer (or hammer wrench). For the smaller shackles used on the anchors of recreational boats, the screw pin type is more common. If the pin is moused to the shackle, it is a very secure connection. SS wire works best, but I do see people using tie-wraps (that need to be inspected and replaced frequently).

Good Luck,

 

[FF]

.I contend nylon stays wet and smells longer...so again it's a debate not a final answer on just one more item in the "great anchoring debate".

Nylon does stay wet if you push it down a hole into an unventilated small locker.

For cruising we figure 8 the anchor line right on deck , where it doesn't stink .

On deck its really easy to shoot for a O night , and does not tangle or cause problems if an emergency need arises.

All nylon gets wet , but not all nylon need be stored wet.

The mud missed with the deck wash and scrub brush from chain stinks as it is lowered into the chain locker!

I dont go cruising to scrub chain for a month at a time.

 

[psneeld]

.I contend nylon stays wet and smells longer...so again it's a debate not a final answer on just one more item in the "great anchoring debate".

Nylon does stay wet if you push it down a hole into an unventilated small locker.

For cruising we figure 8 the anchor line right on deck , where it doesn't stink .

On deck its really easy to shoot for a O night , and does not tangle or cause problems if an emergency need arises.

All nylon gets wet , but not all nylon need be stored wet.

The mud missed with the deck wash and scrub brush from chain stinks as it is lowered into the chain locker!

I dont go cruising to scrub chain for a month at a time.

your right...... guess I'll just have to keep anchoring in sandy areas and where it's mud look for the catfish place to tie up to and eat for the night

 

[Sue Freeman]

Thank you to those of you who answered my screw pin vs bolt type shackle question. I appreciate your responses.
It's amazing how this simple question morphed into a discussion on anchor types & rope vs chain???

 

[BruceK]

It's amazing how this simple question morphed into a discussion on anchor types & rope vs chain???

More amazing it didn`t extend even further. Discussions tend to go where they go, it`s called "thread drift", in extreme cases "hijack". But stay with it, it is all interesting.
Whatever type of shackle you use, no unrated shiny Chinese s/steel ones please, look for something with a load rating if possible, and be prepared to pay a little more for it.

 

[Andy G]

Thank you to those of you who answered my screw pin vs bolt type shackle question. I appreciate your responses.
It's amazing how this simple question morphed into a discussion on anchor types & rope vs chain???

Morphing is a speciality of the forum. we tend to do more morphing than a host of caterpillars.(Not sure if a group of caterpillars is called a host though).

By the way nice looking boat.

 

[FF]

It's amazing how this simple question morphed into a discussion on anchor types & rope vs chain???

"Our ground tackle is woefully inadequate so I'm doing research to upgrade it."

upgrades were discussed

 

[Peter B]

Hey...FF was right...

 

[motion30]

I don't know why we cannot find a screw pin shackle ,that uses a cotter pin on the end would see a nice clean set up

 

[River Cruiser]

If I was concerned that a screw would loosen on a clevis I would either use loc-tite or stake the threads with a center punch.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I've always felt a bit silly putting safety wire on old shackles that are hard to turn but I keep doing it.

Motion 30,
What end do you refer to .. the threaded right?
You'd need longer threads and I think screw pin shackles have tapered threads. One could drill out the threads and employ a hex cap screw w a cotter pin hole. Then you'd need to re-galvanize too. Putting a flat washer between the nut and the shackle ear would boost security. I think I'll stick w safety wire.

 

[motion30]

in heavy rigging I have used heavy duty shackles 50t to 125t. that use a nut and.cotter pin. safety wire is a pain in the neck