Sarca Excel

[JanisK]

Rex
Thanks for your quick response. As always a pleasure to deal with!

And as I said earlier I love my Super Sarca. Hopefully we can get you a few more referrals.

I must also say I was most impressed when I was at the Paynesville Slip getting Gemma repainted and rechristened NighinGayle when I saw this thumping great trawler getting some anti-fouling with two Super Sarcas forward and two aft.

Cheers
Janis

 

[Peter B]

That's one serious and business like vessel. I wonder if they deploy both anchors, or just one unless weather extreme. As it looks unlikely they would be able to rig a bridle, they probably do let both go, to keep pointing into the weather, being a twin hull, although they are fairly near the mid line, so one might be ok..?

 

[Nomad Willy]

I don't see why one would want to use two anchors because they had a twin hulled vessel. Don't really think it has anything to do w it. It's more likely that Rex dosn't have an anchor big enough. But then why not buy one anchor of a different type? Maybe it's just a visual/style thing on catamaran's. It may have two helms and two commodes in the head too.

 

[Tidahapah]

Only use one anchor at a time but being in survey must have 2 anchors ready for deployment.
Most cats have a bridle set up that is in in a Y formation and attaches to both bows to maintain center pull.
Benn

 

[BruceK]

That's one serious and business like vessel. I wonder if they deploy both anchors, or just one unless weather extreme. As it looks unlikely they would be able to rig a bridle, they probably do let both go, to keep pointing into the weather, being a twin hull, although they are fairly near the mid line, so one might be ok..?

One per hull in case the boat breaks down the midline?

 

[Rex]

Silver star, was built for heavy construction, repairs to gas and oil rigs, also for welding kilometers of steel gas pipe lines, this boat is either working or docked.


Benn is correct, under survey these boats have to have a second anchorring system ready too deploy,when it is in full work mode they deploy all four anchors, once laid they winch them until well set to keep the vessel form moving.

When the gas pipe lines have been welded they are rolled out onto another vessel in a continuos legth that trenches and lays them, they cannot afford the boat to be swinging or moving when this procsess is taking place.

Quite amzing to watch these operaters deploy all four anchors in not much more time than it takes some to deploy one.

Regards Rex

 

[DinghyDog]

Rex said:
"...the anchor is designed to engage the toe on its side, if you look at the rear you will see bottom side a straight edge, any force applied this then acts like a brake, transferring load through the shank, combine this the (bowl bus)as I call it on the underside of the fluke, this creates a roll effect further aiding the EXCEL into an upright position, fairly complicated but works a treat."

That said, I've been staring at this anchor (which has been sitting in my living room) and trying to understand the design and anticipated functionality. The below photo shows the described "straight edge", but also a 90 degree downturn which would seemingly further brake or dig in and apply additional force to the toe. I also suspect that the entire anchor would be more upright because of the directional force on the rode/shank during setting.

Just having fun with armchair speculation prior to actual testing.

Mike

 

[Nomad Willy]

DinghyDog,
I suspect that the family of anchors like or including the Delta, Shark, Rocna, Manson Supreme, Manson Boss, CQR, and probably several others lay on their side while setting at 5-1 scope or so and have a skid or something to keep the back of the anchor up and off the bottom to transfer the weight to the toe or fluke tip. This type of anchor probably does not lay on it's side at short scope when tension is on the rode as the end of the shank will be lifted up off the bottom. As you can see I like the arm chair analysis too. It would seem to me that some of these anchors may not set as well at short scope. Even once set some are better at short scope than others. Rocna has a record of less performance at short scope and they (Rocna) said to an anchor tester that their anchor should be set at 5-1 scope or more and then shortened up. So it sounded like they weren't very confident about short scope anchoring ... at least while setting and most likely after that as well. It's not hard to find an anchor that works well at long scope but good performance at short scope is not as common. It is common knowledge that more scope is at least almost always better than less but frequently (in the PNW) due to small anchorages or crowded anchorages short scope anchoring becomes necessary. It looks like the SARCA anchor is very prone to set in a right side up position probably even more so that the EXCELL.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Dinghy Dog,
I found my picture of my modified XYZ anchor. By making the fluke tip wide and straight across it presents a sharp point to the bottom when laying on it's side. I thought this would help setting and give the tip more surface area for more short scope performance. On our trip down from Alaska we anchored w this anchor about 12 times and it performed flawlessly. Once in a 50+ knot gale at 4-1 scope. I suspect that this anchor sets right side up unless it's at 5-1 scope or more. With the wide tip I was surprised it set every time.

 

[Marin]

Eric-- If you stand a Rocna on its nose it will balance vertically on the rollbar and the base of the fluke. If you take hold of the end of the shank and pull it toward you so the anchor comes off the rollbar and sits only on the base of the fluke it will instantly twist to the side. If you continue to lower the shank the anchor will continue rolling over onto its side.

I know this because we have a dent in the oven door of our Force 10 range because I did exactly this the day we got our Rocna and I was installing the shackle in the main cabin of our boat.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin wrote,
" stand a Rocna on its nose it will balance vertically on the rollbar and the base of the fluke"
If you stand the Rocna on it's fluke vertically it will not be on it's nose or on the roll bar at all. But I think you're trying to tell me that whatever you do when you pull on the shank w the rode the Rocna will promptly lay on it's side. True. That's a given. But if the scope is short (say 2.5 -1) I think it will NOT lay on it's side as the rode will be pulling up enough to keep the anchor right side up ... that is .. resting on the center of the bottom of the fluke with the shank vertical and the attach point up. Then it would be required to set in that position.

 

[Marin]

If you stand the Rocna on it's fluke vertically it will not be on it's nose or on the roll bar at all.

Of course it will. The anchor will sit vertically very nicely with the shank more or less straight up in the air and the base (wide end) of the fluke on the ground and the top of the roll bar on the ground. The roll bar is what keeps it from toppling over in that position. It and the fluke make a sort of stand.

You can walk away from it like that and it will sit like that all day unless something knocks it off balance. I've done it plenty of times with ours. It doesn't take much to knock it off balance but as long as nothing does it will just stand there with its nose on the ground and the shackle end of the shank in the air.

I'm directing a shoot in Brazil right now but the next time I'm at the boat I'll take a photo of it standing on its nose (or head if you prefer) as nice as you please.

 

[Nomad Willy]

OK Marin I see what you are describing now. Now that we're all set up w the anchor sticking it's shank attach point basically straight up in the air and the arse end of the anchor resting on the floor, ground or sea bottom making contact w the roll bar and fluke ............... now what? From that position I sense you want to make a point. When you get time of course. And no need to take pics on the boat.

 

[DinghyDog]

Eric wrote:
"I found my picture of my modified XYZ anchor. By making the fluke tip wide and straight across it presents a sharp point to the bottom when laying on it's side..."

I would say that makes sense in most substrates. The XYZ is an interesting design as it has turned down flukes in the rear which forces a deeper angle of tip penetration whereas the hoop anchors (speculation alert) would tend to leverage the tip back up. However, I find the handle on the XYZ a bit counterintuitive as it may, like the hoop, create an opposing force once below the surface.

I'll be comparing the Excel to my Rocna and CQR. Look forward to Marin's Rocna photos as a static comparison. Mine is still shackled to the boat.

Mike

 

[Marin]

Eric-- The point is that as soon as the Rocna is tipped out of that vertical position, it starts to twist over to one side or the other, and if you let the end of the shank down to the ground the anchor will be on its side.

This is counter to your assumption that on a short scope the Rocna won't end up on its side. Even if you take hold of the end of the shank with your hand and move it out of the vertical position I described earlier, the anchor immediately starts to twist to end up lying on its side. It will do the same thing if you are using a short scope. Holding the shank up off the bottom with the rode will not eliminate this twisting to end up on its side.

Trying to set the anchor with an extremely short scope like 2:1 or something may prevent the anchor from digging in properly to set, but its reluctance to set won't be because the anchor is not lying on its side.

Play with one sometime and see for yourself how the anchor puts its full weight into falling over on one side or the other even if you try to prevent it. The only way to keep it off its side is to grab it by the roll bar or fluke and physically hold it up off its side.

The rollbar concept is a very, very clever design and is why we bought one.

PS-- As you say you can visualize the position I was trying to describe earlier I won't take the time to lower the anchor to the dock for photos.

 

[Rex]

Just thought you guys might be interested in a nice little one on the Excel, crew did a good job filming this, must have had faith in the excel, even I would be at the ready with plan B, certainly would not be filming.

Apparently from much comment the area they are anchored in is notorious to get anchors to hold at the best of time.

Storm Hits Granny Smith in Trousers Bay, Furneaux Islands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_j37jA1EE8&feature=player_embedded

Regards Rex.

 

[DinghyDog]

Initial field report on the galvanized Sarca Excel No. 6 (66lb).

Location: Chesapeake Bay
Dates: 5/25 & 5/26
Bottom: Typically mud with varying top layers depending on location
Boat: PH Trawler - 40' overall length and 24,000 lb displacement
Rode: 5/16" G4 with dual snubbers

Day 1: Anchor boat for three sailboats - 1x42' & 2x34' (our old sailing friends did not disown us after all). Location (Rhode River High Island, MD) is known to have good holding. Winds were variable from 8-18 kts with minimal directional change. Anchor bit immediately and held a 1K RPM back down set (single 340 HP). No issues overnight. Weighing the anchor required patience, persistence and came up with mud mainly around the “de-liquification” cut-outs. A drop back into the water cleaned off the majority.

Day 2: Anchor boat for five sailboats - 1x42',1x39', 3x34'. Location (Mill Creek, MD) is known to have poor holding because of heavy leaf cover; had previous difficulties getting anchors to set in this anchorage. Anchor bit immediately and held a 1.1K RPM back down set. Winds variable from 5-12 kts. No issues overnight. Raft had swung 180 degrees on the morning tide, but the winds were calm.

Observations: Based on the difficulty weighing anchor, I can only suspect that it dove deeply into the mud. It also easily penetrated the leafy bottom of Mill Creek. By the end of the Holiday weekend, we were christened “anchor boat for life”. Not sure if this is necessarily a good thing…

While the above cannot be considered a definitive test for any anchor, I have growing confidence it will hold our single boat in most straight-line to moderate veering wind conditions and in substrates found on the Bay. I’m still looking for a substaintal 180 degree wind shift that typically comes during our summer squalls. I’ll continue to update notable experiences with this anchor.

Mike

 

[Codger2]

Excellent post! Thanks!

 

[Nomad Willy]

DD,

The Excell has a ballasted tip does it not? I think that's a better design. Never care'd for hoops and roll bars. But I like the SARCA a lot.

If one pulls on the rode of a fully buried roll bar anchor the drag from the roll bar will present a force that will tend to pitch the anchor up like an aircraft climbing. Generally speaking anchors rising up out of the bottom when pulled upon is clearly counterproductive. However on some bottoms pitching up when well buried could be an advantage when one needs to pull it up as it may not be buried so deep. It would seem to act as a depth limiter. But then one would want to ask the question "how deep does one need/want to burry one's anchor"? Perhaps there's no point in burying anchors further than the shank. But if you had to bet on one anchor buried to it's shank and another buried one foot below it's shank and a 50 knot gale was forecast .... Hmmm.

As I recall the German chap that designed the roll bar anchor offered it as a method of orienting the anchor properly w a device that weighed less than the ballast usually employed for that purpose thus opening the door for more blade area for a given weight anchor.

But it matters little if at all as both roll bar and others seem to work very well. But from an analytical and design standpoint ...........

 

[Tidahapah]

Have just upgraded my Excel (#8) to the new improved design, really looking forward to putting this one thru the hoops.
Had a look at the new Aluminium 2 piece Excel at the Sanctuary Cove Boat Show , looks the goods.
I have one on order as my spare anchor, easy to stow and easier to get out and deploy when required.
Spare anchor will now be the same size as main.

Re the weighted tip, the good thing about this is it is cast steel so when the time comes for the anchor to be re galvanised there is no pesky lead to be melted out and replaced.
Cheers
Benn

 

[Rex]

Hi Mike,

That’s a good start, I think also when you add the weight, displacement and draft of the extra boats shunting and bumping that you had rafted up alongside deep setting of the Excel is not to surprising.

At the International boat show just finished we had a guy stating that he anchored in the two cyclones, the first one was 85 knots and the second 65 knots, the good thing was is he did not move, but when retrieving his number 5 Excel after the 85 knot blow he found it took some time to retrieve it.

He went on to say after 10 minutes of forcefully trying to brake it out of the mud he decided to take a break with some load still on the bow from winching, when he went to reapproach the recovery he noticed the bow was now moving up and down quite freely, he then reloaded the winch and the anchor showed little resistance.

After this experience in retrieving the Excel, the second cyclone he sat through at sixty knots he tried a different approach when retrieving, this time he motored up to the anchor retrieving his chain, once above the anchor and the bow starting to dip he stopped the winch and proceeded forward at a fast idle speed, he said within minutes he could feel the anchor breaking out, using this technique he said the Excel has not been a problem to retrieve when deep set.

Never the less you have a way to go before you can recommend the Excel I suppose, but if it performs as well for you as it does for others then I am sure it will be money well spent. I will look forward to future experience.

Regards Rex

 

[Rex]

Roll bar concept

Hi Eric,

You do make some valid points on the roll bar anchors, never the less all models concepts that you mention are significantly different,( different designs)

If you view this link once again Super SARCA to The Test - YouTube you will see a major performance, deeper setting difference, Re roll bar concept, concave verses convex.

True, do we need this extra holding power? Probably not but it's nice to know it’s there if you should.

Regards Rex.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Helloooo Rex,
Was waiting for your input HaHa. You make the anchor threads more of a learning experience and that is always good.

Since your roll bar on the SARCA is much larger and much smaller bar dia the RB drag is not felt till the anchor is considerably deeper and then I think the SARCA shank is shorter too and that will also help short scope performance and reduce the effects of roll bar drag.

Need "the extra holding power?".... I've never had a holding power problem. Never dragged an anchor and have used a number of types. Could it be that my anchors are too big? Most will think I've been just lucky but if I had an anchor that had twice as much holding power it could be half the size and I could quit thinking about a bigger anchor, winches ect.