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Old 09-20-2012, 05:36 AM   #21
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My SARCA Excel is now set in the slightly muddy bottom at Pelican Point just inside the Wide Bay Bar.
Don't think we will be giving it a test tonight.
Anchored in 4 mts of water and wind strength toping out at 4 knots.
Life is good
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:08 AM   #22
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Sounds good Benn. Yes, I'm jealous.
Actually I can't use Lotus just for now. I had to do some dentistry on my boat recently - well, sort of dentistry - had to dig a hole then fill it. Found over winter a dozy, soft area of wet rot in the cabin wall under the aft port saloon window, from water getting inside the glass to frame join. Last weekend, emboldened by the company of one of my son's friends, who is a cabinet-maker, we attacked the section with a router, removed it, and Wednesday pm I went down and set in place a marine ply filler. Now all that's left is the cosmetic bit outside, and to replace the interior teak veneer we damaged in the process, and good as new. I'll post some before and after pics in near future.
Good to hear Tidahapa is back in action. I know you has some issues over the past couple of years. How's the new engine performing..?
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:40 PM   #23
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Peter,
Mr G is going great guns.
Steamed up at 1200 RPM just on 7.5 knots fuel burn 12.5 lts/hr on the Floscan and the cruise alternator on 51 Hz.
All is good with the world once more.

Next time out will put a bit more pitch in the prop to get 8 knots at 1230 RPM and 51 Hz on the cruise alternator.
Will stay up the Straits for a couple of weeks and most likely base the boat in Urangan until Xmas or early Jan.
I don't think we will go any further north this year.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:46 PM   #24
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Peter. This maybe a silly question but where do you source your teak veneer from.

I have some window leak repair I need to do and need to find some teak veneer.

John
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:17 AM   #25
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Peter. This maybe a silly question but where do you source your teak veneer from.
I have some window leak repair I need to do and need to find some teak veneer.
John
Rebel, I got it from 'Mr Ply.' If you Google it, you'll find your nearest supplier. Where are you based? If there is not one near you, then Googling marine construction supplies etc could help.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:04 PM   #26
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Thanks Peter.
The boats in Sydney so will start there.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:51 PM   #27
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No self-respecting anchor forum moderator would be named Bruce! (Apologies to the real Bruce!)
That could be me,or maybe the much maligned inventor of the anchor,which I believe started life as an anchor for offshore oil drill platforms,which don`t rotate to the breeze.
I`ve yet to fit the Sarca,we looked like being free to anchor out overnight a lot more when our old non boating dog who can`t go to kennnels got a bad diagnosis from the vet. I decided to make anchoring more sure,though the CQR which came on the boat has been reliable, but as I learned when replacing a 25yo refrigerator at home,most design improves/evolves with time. Said dog is defying diagnosis, urgency is less,but I`m interested (without reopening the swivel debate in general and causing irritation) in experiences of only Super Sarca users with swivels. BruceK
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:01 AM   #28
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Bruce, thanks to Eric (Manyboats) pointing out something I had forgotten, namely that the larger sized shackle recommended for the chain size will not go through the 10mm (3/8") chain link, so as another smaller dimension shackle was necessary anyway, I thought, what the heck, and added the shackle back in. I was going to leave it out after the adverse comments made elsewhere re swivels, but really, it does make aligning the anchor up for retrieval on the odd occasion it comes up backwards mucheasier, and does help avoid twists, and as it is a heavier dimension and stronger than the chain, which is therefore still the 'weakest link', there seems no logical reason not to have it there.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:23 AM   #29
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Peter,

I'm basically anti-swivel but if it's oversized and ALWAYS pulls in-line I see no downside either.
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Old 09-22-2012, 01:59 PM   #30
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Peter--- As I'm sure you know, the fact that the strength of a swivel is rated as strong or stronger than the chain is not the issue. It is only rated this way in a straight-through pull. The swivel is not rated nearly that strong if a sideways load is applied to it.

If as Eric mentions above the swivel is attached in such a way that it will always be lined up with the direction of pull no matter what the boat does in relation to the anchor then the weak sideways strength is not an issue. But in looking at boats in our marina, it's always amazing to see how many swivels are either mounted backwards or are designed in such a way that the ONLY way to mount them is in a way that will subject them to sideways loads on the swivel pin.

As I've mentioned before we used a swivel initially and we had it mounted correctly. But after reading Earl Hinz's book about anchoring and mooring and realizing that the swivel was playing no functional role in our anchoring setup at all--- if the anchor comes up out of alignment with the pulpit it's simple matter to reach out and align it by hand--- we eliminated the swivel as I believe the fewer components there are between the anchor and the boat the better. A swivel of sufficient strength and properly mounted should not break. A swivel that is not there at all will never break.

I have only seen one swivel that I would use if we felt we really needed a swivel. And that is the WASI Powerball. Very, very expensive, though, and since a swivel would be of no benefit to us at all we fortunately don't have to spend the money.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:50 PM   #31
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Thanks Marin - good summing up, but there is no way my awivel would ever be in a position where it took sideways stress or strain, so I'm happy to sleep on it.
In this pic, I think you can see, the u-end loop of the anchor shackle is in the loop of swivel, which is a double loop ended type with no pin, and the boat end of that is looped by the u end of the secondary shackle, then the pin end of that shackle is through the last chain link. Sorry my safety hook gets in the way a bit, I was not taking the pic to illustrate this point when I took it, or I'd have removed it. Anyway, take it from me, no way can it end up under sideways strain.
However I agree the swivel you put up is a good one, and I had a similar one on previously, but when I went to swap ends of the chain, I could not dislodge the pin, no matter what I tried, so it had to be sacrificed to remove it. Reassuring in retrospect it was never going to come off, but rather an expensive exercise. I went back to the simpler double ended swivel used previously with no dramas.
Oh yes, one other thing, that type of swivel you've shown, would not work in the Sarca slot properly, so one would still have to have a shackle linking it to the anchor in that context, so sort of defeats the one stop shop benefit of that fancy type of swivel, which are rather expensive. Ie nearly $US 300 for the size I would need....
http://www.goodboatgear.com/detail/7...chor_Connector
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:11 AM   #32
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Peter--- If I had a buck for every swivel I've seen installed backwards-- with the bracket or "leg" end attached directly to the anchor shank-- we'd have a Fleming or Eastbay instead of this pathetic, plodding old GB.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:03 AM   #33
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Nevertheless, it's the correct way for a Sarca Marin, trust me on that.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:35 PM   #34
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Nevertheless, it's the correct way for a Sarca Marin, trust me on that.
Yours isn't set up that way from your photo and description. There is a shackle between your swivel and the anchor shank. So your swivel can pivot to face any direction and keep the pull straight through it. If there is a shackle between the swivel and the shank it doesn't matter which end of the swivel is attached to the shackle.

I'm talking about the folks who attach the open end, U- end, leg end, whatever you want to call it, directly to the anchor shank. This arrangement allows the swivel to pivot in only one direction. If the boat gets off to the side of the anchor the swivel cannot pivot to point at it. So the load is sideways on the swivel pin and with a side load the pin will break long before it or any other part of the swivel would break with a straight through load.

I didn't know any of this and in fact put our swivel on backwards until I read Earl Hinz' book on anchoring and mooring. In it he does a great job of explaining the pros and cons of swivels and illustrates the consequences of installing one backwards. After reading this I re- installed ours correctly but then in thinking about it and talking to people we met with years of anchoring experience we eliminated the swivel altogether.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:43 PM   #35
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Nevertheless, it's the correct way for a Sarca Marin, trust me on that.
Your swivel is attached to your anchor shank with a shackle. I'm talking about the people wh attach the open end, U- end, leg end, whatever you want to call it, directly to the anchor shank. This allows the swivel to pivot in only one direction, up and down in line with the shank. It cannot pivot out of line with the shank so if the boat gets off to the side of the anchor the swivel cannot pivot to point at it. So the load is sideways on the swivel pin and with a side load the pin will break long before it or any other part of the swivel would break with a straight through load.

I didn't know any of this and in fact put our swivel on backwards until I read Earl Hinz' book on anchoring and mooring. In it he does a great job of explaining the pros and cons of swivels and illustrates the consequences of installing one backwards. After reading this I re- installed ours correctly but then in thinking about it and talking to people we met with years of anchoring experience we eliminated the swivel altogether.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:55 PM   #36
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My reading confirms never using a "barrel" type swivel to directly connect chain to anchor. But can we clarify which end goes towards the anchor? Marin,you seem to say the "leg" end (the divided end with a pin across the gap?)should not go towards the anchor,but the swivel pic in your earlier post showing chain attached suggests otherwise. My (unfitted) swivel has a taper or cone one end, I took that as the inboard end, to come back easily over the roller.(Nice if the swivel came with instructions.)
I had a call from Rex on Saturday night to check what I might be doing, impressive follow up. He confirmed fitting a second shackle between the slot mounted shackle and the chain,(something he also said the day I bought the anchor),and said attach the shackles "U to U". He likes Peter`s swivel set up (which as best I can see uses an older style gal swivel), but said avoid fitting one if possible. BruceK
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:14 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Your swivel is attached to your anchor shank with a shackle. I'm talking about the people wh attach the open end, U- end, leg end, whatever you want to call it, directly to the anchor shank. This allows the swivel to pivot in only one direction, up and down in line with the shank. It cannot pivot out of line with the shank so if the boat gets off to the side of the anchor the swivel cannot pivot to point at it. So the load is sideways on the swivel pin and with a side load the pin will break long before it or any other part of the swivel would break with a straight through load.
Yes, sorry Marin, brain fade on my part...where you said 'swivel' I read 'shackle'. You are quite right. The special up-sized stainless shackle goes through the Sarca slot with the pin/bolt through the slot in the anchor shank. Because of that, one needs a size down to fit to the chain link. The swivel in between is optional. I chose to use it to elliminate twisting and make alignment easier. That was the bit I was trying to emphasize, because in that it might well differ from what you might do with an ordinary non-slotted anchor, where that would not really matter so much, but for the slotted anchor, it's essential the bolt goes through the slot. That was the bit Bruce originally got confused over.
As for the swivel, I agree, it must be able to rotate in all directions. However, Bruce is right, in the picture of the one you recommended, because it has that special multi-directional swiveling end that attaches to the chain, the open leg end does look like it is intended to bolt straight onto the anchor shank.
http://www.goodboatgear.com/detail/7...chor_Connector

Quote from the illustration....
Non-binding, full 360 swivel action and 30 side-to-side movement protects the anchor shank from the stresses created by boat movement and make anchor entanglement virtually a thing of the past
• Easily passes through anchor rollers
• Secondary patented locking screws prevent the accidental unscrewing of the primary connecting bolts and are also a practical anti-theft feature for your anchor
• Made of high quality AISI 316 Stainless Steel - rust-free and will last the lifetime of your vessel
• Replaces both the anchor shackle and the connecting swivel
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:33 AM   #38
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It doesn't matter which end of a swivel is aiming at the anchor shank as long as it's connected to the anchor in a way that allows it to pivot in any direction relative to the shank. The most common if not the only way to do this is with a shackle between the swivel and the shank. It doesn't matter if you connect the leg end of the swivel to the shackle or the loop end.

When we used a swivel we always attached the loop end to a shackle on the anchor shank and the leg end directly to the chain. This way-- which is the way Hinz recommends in his book-- only one shackle is required.

If you put the leg end toward the anchor you'll need to use two shackles. One between the leg end and the shank and another one between the loop end of the swivel and the chain since there's no way to get the last chain link directly onto the closed swivel loop.

What's neat about the WASI Powerball is that it does not have a swivel pin at all. Instead it has the ball and socket arrangement. So there is no weak-link swivel pin that might break under a side load. Connecting the legs of the WASI directly to the anchor shank doesn't put the swivel pin at risk because there isn't one.

This is the problem those shiny "bullet" swivels so many boaters like to use. If you connect the legs of the swivel directly to the anchor shank-- which from our observation almost all users of this kind of swivel do-- the swivel can only pivot in one direction on the shank so the swivel pin inside it will be subjected to side loads if the boat moves out of line with the anchor.

We long ago eliminated the swivel in our setup altogether and attached the chain directly to the anchor with one shackle. So the whole thing became a non- issue.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:46 AM   #39
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Yep, no argument there, but have a closer look at that Wasabi powerball, or whatever it's called you put up. (Follow the link)
http://www.goodboatgear.com/detail/7...chor_Connector
It does show the leg end attaching (implied) direct to the shank, so is an exception to the rule, and goes a small way to explaining why it costs ten times as much as other swivels....maybe..?
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:58 AM   #40
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Y
It does show the leg end attaching (implied) direct to the shank, so is an exception to the rule, and goes a small way to explaining why it costs ten times as much as other swivels....maybe..?
See my edit to my previous post. Attaching the legs of the WASI directly to the anchor shank does not put the swivel pin at risk because there isn't one. Instead it has the ball and socket arrangement which is WAY stronger than the swivel pin in a conventional swivel. This is why the WASI is so clever and is the only swivel we would ever use if we felt we needed a swivel. Which we don't.
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