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Old 01-05-2012, 08:43 PM   #1
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Rope to Chain Splice

Here is a picture of my rope to chain splice which is necessary to use on my windlass.

What do you guys think, will this hold? It doesn't look like a good way to hold a 25000 lb boat, but it was done by a profession as directed by the windlass manual.

I know of know other way to secure this splice, but would like to get some comments.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:58 PM   #2
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RE: Rope to Chain Splice

Mine is done exactly the same way.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:23 PM   #3
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RE: Rope to Chain Splice

Timjet,

Seems to actually be the norm now. I've not heard anything bad about the splice and anchor windlass manufacturers seem to think so too.

Eric
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:11 AM   #4
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RE: Rope to Chain Splice

The splice NEW will hold...just make sure if you anchor a lot...you check that tight bend frequently for chafe....but it will hold at probably more than 50% of the*working load*for quite sometime and generally anchoring situations only require a fraction of the breaking strength.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:06 AM   #5
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RE: Rope to Chain Splice

I hope it holds!* It looks very similar to what I did myself with 3 strand.

*
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:53 AM   #6
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RE: Rope to Chain Splice

Thanks guys, I just wanted to hear some feedback. Seems like the safety of me and the boat rests on a rather thin piece of nylon.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:37 PM   #7
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RE: Rope to Chain Splice

Yup,
looks like what was done on my previous boat for a combination chain/rope winch splice .

Check for chafe several times each year. Mine was fine when I sold the boat 4 yrs later.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:14 AM   #8
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RE: Rope to Chain Splice

I guess there is little choice if it has to pass thru a windlass chain rope drum.

WE anchor with almost all rope , so the really heavy chain is short , 5 ft or so , and is never seen by the windlass.

All chain IS used in coral, but we have been shoreside for a while.

The question then would be how easily can one select a different anchor , to better match the bottom?

Dual anchor rodes? Or a chain end swop???
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:53 AM   #9
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Rope to Chain Splice

Tim,

If you have a windlass like these you can have all the knots, splices of any type, shackles and most any other hardware imaginable on your anchor rode. You would be better off tying at the end of the float at the yacht club though. The rode I think is ideal is anchor, 4' of really heavy chain like studded type, 8' of extra heavy chain, 12' of heavy chain and the rest nylon line. With the drum winch you can have an anchor as heavy as you like too. And if you do'nt like hydraulics they are made in electric versions.

Eric


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Sunday 8th of January 2012 11:06:07 AM
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:39 PM   #10
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RE: Rope to Chain Splice

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:
Tim,

If you have a windlass like these you can have all the knots, splices of any type, shackles and most any other hardware imaginable on your anchor rode. You would be better off tying at the end of the float at the yacht club though. The rode I think is ideal is anchor, 4' of really heavy chain like studded type, 8' of extra heavy chain, 12' of heavy chain and the rest nylon line. With the drum winch you can have an anchor as heavy as you like too. And if you do'nt like hydraulics they are made in electric versions.

Eric



-- Edited by nomadwilly on Sunday 8th of January 2012 11:06:07 AM
*Not sure where I see the advantage of several types of chain when the weakest point in many systems is the connections..."possible" failure points.
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Old 05-05-2012, 03:30 AM   #11
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Is the rope to chain splice in post #5 with a loop through the last link and then splice back into itself as posted by Baltimore Lurker the best way to go? Or an extended splice aka "warp to chain splice" which appears to have a lot more contact with the chain and has no loop or single weak point at the loop to chain join? Admittedly this latter way may have an issue with some winches.

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Old 05-05-2012, 03:34 AM   #12
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I'll try the link again..
www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:34 PM   #13
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psneeld,
Weak link here is not an issue. All components are much stronger than most any trawler. I think the second pic (prev. post) is of a rode employing a section of super heavy studded chain.
The advantage is that you get the weight of the rode concentrated on the anchor shank so the anchor's performance is enhanced. And at the same time you get a lot of stretch form lots of nylon line. For the first few feet it's customary to mount chain much oversized as weight close to the anchor. Many (perhaps most fishing boats in this area) use 3 descending sizes of chain about 30 to 50 feet long and then 2 or 300' of nylon line. But on yachts the windlass will only accept one size of chain so a reel winch is needed for the fishboat rig.
I think it's the best rode there is but the reel winch is expensive and requires a hydraulic pump to be mounted on the engine.

If anybody wants such a winch I have a big one that has chain and sprocket drive. I'd bring it to a Puget Sound TF member for $400. The hydraulic motor would probably need to be rebuilt. It's too big for Willy. See the picture at the bottom of my previous post.
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:24 PM   #14
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We used 80' of chain spliced to 1/2' three-strand for years. I always worried about the splice chafing and so inpected it regulary but never saw a problem.
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Old 05-06-2012, 06:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
psneeld,
Weak link here is not an issue. All components are much stronger than most any trawler. I think the second pic (prev. post) is of a rode employing a section of super heavy studded chain.
The advantage is that you get the weight of the rode concentrated on the anchor shank so the anchor's performance is enhanced. And at the same time you get a lot of stretch form lots of nylon line. For the first few feet it's customary to mount chain much oversized as weight close to the anchor. Many (perhaps most fishing boats in this area) use 3 descending sizes of chain about 30 to 50 feet long and then 2 or 300' of nylon line. But on yachts the windlass will only accept one size of chain so a reel winch is needed for the fishboat rig.
I think it's the best rode there is but the reel winch is expensive and requires a hydraulic pump to be mounted on the engine.

If anybody wants such a winch I have a big one that has chain and sprocket drive. I'd bring it to a Puget Sound TF member for $400. The hydraulic motor would probably need to be rebuilt. It's too big for Willy. See the picture at the bottom of my previous post.
The weak links I were referrin g to would be multiple connection points that are more prone to corrosion/unfastening..not sheer strength.

There's two schools of thought on your multi-chain theory. The first says that weight in the rode in severe conditions is useless anyway as it all lifts off the bottom...the weight needs to be in the head/flukes.

The other thought is...if the weight of chain is used for catenary...then weight is more useful nearer the center of the deployed rode and away from the anchor..that's just pure physics...

Again small points...but that's why so mant boaters successfully use plain old small, all chain rodes for convenience, looks, etc...etc...
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:25 AM   #16
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The extra shackles are oversized too.
If one concentrates the weight very close to the anchor shank there may be some catenary left. That's the theory ....sort of a hook shaped catenary so the cat is where it's needed.....at the anchor shank. I do'nt know anybody that knows for sure and I have'nt read about it. Most all the fishermen use the multi-sized chain around here but it could be just tradition. It's a rare fisherman that does not do as most other fishermen do. You say "that's just pure physics". Can you present anything to support that? I would think that w all chain more cat would result at the anchor than w one weight in the center. The cat w one weight at the center would be more V shaped and that would result in less cat at the ends. But I also suspect that the situation would be different if the rode were horizontal so the cat at the anchor may change w the angle (or scope) of the rode. I do'nt think anyone really knows about this but the fishermen may have experience that shows their weight bias on the rode makes a difference.
But I still think pleasure boaters use all small chain for connivence and fishermen use big chain close to the anchor and plenty of nylon for max performance. But I do agree the reel winch would look better on a tug boat.
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:41 AM   #17
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...I'd say that's the way its done. Better to have too much than not enough.

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Old 05-06-2012, 11:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
The extra shackles are oversized too.
If one concentrates the weight very close to the anchor shank there may be some catenary left. That's the theory ....sort of a hook shaped catenary so the cat is where it's needed.....at the anchor shank. I do'nt know anybody that knows for sure and I have'nt read about it. Most all the fishermen use the multi-sized chain around here but it could be just tradition. It's a rare fisherman that does not do as most other fishermen do. You say "that's just pure physics". Can you present anything to support that? I would think that w all chain more cat would result at the anchor than w one weight in the center. The cat w one weight at the center would be more V shaped and that would result in less cat at the ends. But I also suspect that the situation would be different if the rode were horizontal so the cat at the anchor may change w the angle (or scope) of the rode. I do'nt think anyone really knows about this but the fishermen may have experience that shows their weight bias on the rode makes a difference.
But I still think pleasure boaters use all small chain for connivence and fishermen use big chain close to the anchor and plenty of nylon for max performance. But I do agree the reel winch would look better on a tug boat.
Couldn't quickly find an example...but I've seen the calculation on other forums discussing anchoring... weight has the greatest amount of effect in the center of the rode...

That's why the recommendation for letting a sentinel/kellet down about half the length of a rode...an age old practice that is being downplayed and putting all the weight at the anchor.
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:46 PM   #19
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psneeld wrote:
"weight has the greatest amount of effect in the center of the rode..." I assume you're talking about advantageous catenary. If that is true then small all chain would be the best rode....or even chain in the middle.

I've never heard of "the age old practice of letting the kellet down about half the length of the rode". I have a kellet I made and I plan to hook it to chain right next to the anchor. Hmmmm....... I wonder how to sort this out? Perhaps I'll get some very small chain and do some experiments. If what you say is true I should be using all chain and the fishermen do'nt know what they are doing. Could be though. Would sure simplify my anchoring. Perhaps Peter B could ask Rex about this?
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:18 PM   #20
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Psneeld is correct. Thr right place for a kellet is as halfway down the rode as you can get it. The objective is not to add weight to the head of the anchor shank but to reduce the angle of the rode's pull on the anchor so the pull is more parallel to the bottom than angled up toward the boat which will try to lever the anchor out of the bottom. Sliding a kellet down to the anchor itself won't do this. Positioning the kellet as close to halfway down the rode will.
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