Rocna Vulcan problems

[mncruiser]

I'm having a specific problem, hoping for some guidance here.

My 2001 Mainship 390 came with a Rocna Vulcan 44lb. anchor when I bought it 3 years ago. I was excited, after reading here for a number of years how it was a good anchor.

I boat in Lake Superior, specifically the Apostle Islands. I'd say 100% of my anchoring is in sand, I generally am 20 feet deep or less when I anchor, in mostly calm conditions.

My rode is all chain, well almost....the last 30 feet or so are line. I've never deployed it past the chain.

My problem is, I can't get this anchor to easily set, ever. It is to the point that I am ready to buy a different anchor. My dock walk last weekend and talking with friends, 90% of what people use around me are Danforth/Fortress types split equally with a plow type anchor.

Last time we anchored, it took me 5 times to get it to set, in completely calm conditions, good deep sand bottom. I tried every combination. Backing while dropping. Drop, then back. Less scope. Tons of scope. Again and again. My swivel swivels, there is nothing bent or bound.

Once it is set, I have no problems, and Bob (former owner) left me a nice bridle that is slick as snot.

Is this anchor more difficult to use? I've got no other explanation than either I really suck at it....or it sucks! Ha!

I do notice there is a heck of a keel on the bottom of it. Does this make it harder to set?

Looking for ideas. I'm inclined to go for a plow type as my primary roller, I have a backup smaller Danforth anchor I may upgrade as well for a backup.

Or could it be me? I am suspicious, I have seen very few of my anchor around me. But I know a bunch of you whom I respect a lot have this exact anchor....so I'm pausing.

Here is a pic of the miserable thing ;-)

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[rslifkin]

There's a guy on Cruisersforum who had similar setting issues with a Vulcan. I've got the same size (73lb) Vulcan he did and the only time mine hasn't set well was when I dropped it in a pile of cobblestone.

Generally I set it by deploying the desired amount of rode while slowly moving backwards (to avoid a pile) then gently backing down to stretch the rode tight. Don't get the boat moving too fast. Once it goes tight, I drop both engines into idle reverse until it stretches good and tight and the boat stays stopped, then throttle up slightly for 30 seconds or so. No swivel in my setup, but that shouldn't matter. I'm not sure I've ever dropped mine in sand, but definitely in sandy mud and many types of regular mud.

Out of curiosity, what size chain are you using with that anchor?

 

[mncruiser]

There's a guy on Cruisersforum who had similar setting issues with a Vulcan. I've got the same size (73lb) Vulcan he did and the only time mine hasn't set well was when I dropped it in a pile of cobblestone.

Out of curiosity, what size chain are you using with that anchor?

I will have to measure it later this week when I get back up there. I want to say it's on the larger size, but I could be wrong. It's the stock Lewmar windlass that came on the Mainship, I don't know if they have a single chain size they support or not.

 

[mncruiser]

I will have to measure it later this week when I get back up there. I want to say it's on the larger size, but I could be wrong. It's the stock Lewmar windlass that came on the Mainship, I don't know if they have a single chain size they support or not.

Does this look bigger than normal? Apologies, all I’ve got until I get back there.

 

[Comodave]

The chain size probably won’t make much difference in getting it to set. Heavier chain may help some but it doesn’t sound like that is your problem. I might try a fairly large Fortress anchor. I had an FX37 as a backup anchor for one of our boats. But I sold it to someone here on TF. In sand it would probably be a good anchor. You can also change the fluke angle for mud.

 

[mvweebles]

Let's rule-out technique first.

What scope are you using? Is your chain well marked? In 20-feet of water, plus 5-feet to the bow roller, you should be dropping 120-feet of chain as you back-down. Do you back-down slowly before power-setting? Can you describe your deployment process?

Fortress/Danforth style are excellent in sand as long as there the pull-direction remains relatively consistent.

Interesting.....

Peter

 

[Nomad Willy]

Peter wrote,
“ Fortress/Danforth style are excellent in sand as long as there the pull-direction remains relatively consistent. ”

Yes and I’ve always had good performance w the original anchor. A Danforth w a forged shank and formed steel plate flukes. It was only 13lbs but held my 30’ 8 ton Willard boat in up to 40knot winds. I used it fairly often mostly because it was so easy to pull. No winch or capstan for several years.

I have a 22lb Dan w both forged shank and flukes. Very long sharp flukes. In sand I’d expect it to have very high holding power.

But now-days there are many good anchors. One that’s exceptional in many types of sea floor. Or as the Australians say “Super SARCA”. It’s what I look for in an anchor .. flexibility while setting.

 

[diver dave]

Please take a go- pro down and show us what exactly what is happening. Thanks. Lots of vulcan users here.

 

[heysteve]

I've had a Rocna Vulcan for years in both the PNW and Mexico. For me, it performed extremely well. On sand it sets very quickly so I too think it might be related to technique.

I typically lower the anchor slowly while paying out chain. If the wind is blowing, I just let it push the boat back. If not then bumping the boat in reverse works nicely. What you want is to match the chain going out with the boat speed so you have a nice stretched out rode between the boat and the anchor.

When the appropriate scope is reached, I stop letting out chain and - 90% of the time - the anchor sets quickly. I then power up a bit in reverse to set it. For me, 5:1 scope worked well in all but extreme conditions.

You have a good anchor... I'm sure you can make it work!

 

[Delfin]

I'm having a specific problem, hoping for some guidance here.

My 2001 Mainship 390 came with a Rocna Vulcan 44lb. anchor when I bought it 3 years ago. I was excited, after reading here for a number of years how it was a good anchor.

I boat in Lake Superior, specifically the Apostle Islands. I'd say 100% of my anchoring is in sand, I generally am 20 feet deep or less when I anchor, in mostly calm conditions.

My rode is all chain, well almost....the last 30 feet or so are line. I've never deployed it past the chain.

My problem is, I can't get this anchor to easily set, ever. It is to the point that I am ready to buy a different anchor. My dock walk last weekend and talking with friends, 90% of what people use around me are Danforth/Fortress types split equally with a plow type anchor.

Last time we anchored, it took me 5 times to get it to set, in completely calm conditions, good deep sand bottom. I tried every combination. Backing while dropping. Drop, then back. Less scope. Tons of scope. Again and again. My swivel swivels, there is nothing bent or bound.

Once it is set, I have no problems, and Bob (former owner) left me a nice bridle that is slick as snot.

Is this anchor more difficult to use? I've got no other explanation than either I really suck at it....or it sucks! Ha!

I do notice there is a heck of a keel on the bottom of it. Does this make it harder to set?

Looking for ideas. I'm inclined to go for a plow type as my primary roller, I have a backup smaller Danforth anchor I may upgrade as well for a backup.

Or could it be me? I am suspicious, I have seen very few of my anchor around me. But I know a bunch of you whom I respect a lot have this exact anchor....so I'm pausing.

Here is a pic of the miserable thing ;-) View attachment 139700

Any ideas?

Thanks

Diving anchors like the Vulcan, Ultra, Excel, etc. seem to set best when you lay them on the sea floor, backing up only to prevent a chain lump, then letting them settle in. Once they start digging, tension only makes them dig deeper, which you want. Too much backing before they start nosing in keeps them from ever starting to penetrate the sea bed, and if you want to back down to know it's set, wait a couple of hours and then do it.



Just one man's opinion....

 

[High Wire]

Agree with above. I don’t allow the chain to come taught until 5:1 scope is paid out. The only time it has failed to set is when I let it come taught early or on a down slope bottom like the edge of the Hudson River. So that’s bottom depth plus the height of the pulpit roller above the surface of the water times 5 then let stop the windlass payout. Do not back down until you let it settle naturally for a while. For us that’s about 30 minutes. We also started out with a 44# but upgraded to a 55# after dragging a few times through Carolina mud in high winds.

 

[mncruiser]

Let's rule-out technique first.

What scope are you using? Is your chain well marked? In 20-feet of water, plus 5-feet to the bow roller, you should be dropping 120-feet of chain as you back-down. Do you back-down slowly before power-setting? Can you describe your deployment process?

Fortress/Danforth style are excellent in sand as long as there the pull-direction remains relatively consistent.

Interesting.....

Peter

My chain is marked, but faded and I think I’ve been guessing after awhile.

I think it’s likely I’m not letting enough rode out. I think I’m so concerned about it not setting and drifting into nothing, I’m not letting enough out, and not paying attention to how much I’m actually letting out.

I think that’s it. I did notice I had a lot of chain left last time, I think I have 180’ of chain.

I think it might be me!!!

 

[rslifkin]

I've never needed to let mine settle like some mention here. As long as tension is brought up somewhat gently it's always dug in just fine and continued to dig in with a harder pull.

 

[SteveK]

I have always wondered where the holding is in anchors like post 1 Rocna. The shank of an anchor is IMO expected to lay on the bottom along with the chain. The Danforth was brought up. The flutes rotate down about 30* so they dig in. The pictured Rocna appears to be parallels with the seabed, where is the holding ability.
Either anchor when pulled by reversing may lift the shank. The Danforth and plow types still have the ability to dig deeper. If the shank on the Rocna is lifted and pulled it will come point skyward and unset, and that is what appears to be happening here.

I have a Bruce now and it has held in all but a sand or gravel bottom. my previous was Delta. both of them show a design that digs down imo.

 

[mncruiser]

I have always wondered where the holding is in anchors like post 1 Rocna. The shank of an anchor is IMO expected to lay on the bottom along with the chain. The Danforth was brought up. The flutes rotate down about 30* so they dig in. The pictured Rocna appears to be parallels with the seabed, where is the holding ability.
Either anchor when pulled by reversing may lift the shank. The Danforth and plow types still have the ability to dig deeper. If the shank on the Rocna is lifted and pulled it will come point skyward and unset, and that is what appears to be happening here.

I have a Bruce now and it has held in all but a sand or gravel bottom. my previous was Delta. both of them show a design that digs down imo.

My problem is not holding, it’s setting. I think it may all be technique.

 

[Delfin]

I've never needed to let mine settle like some mention here. As long as tension is brought up somewhat gently it's always dug in just fine and continued to dig in with a harder pull.

If you anchor in mud or rock, knock yourself out pulling on the hook as soon as it hits bottom. If you're anchoring in hard sand, or sand and shell, or a kelp bottom, backing down just means plowing up the bottom if you do it before it has a chance to settle. I watched a guy in Friday Harbor in a Nordhavn 70+ try to set a perfectly good anchor 5 times before he gave up. His technique was start backing down as soon as he had scope out. Doesn't work in some bottoms.

 

[Peter B]

Absolutely right. Like Delfin and several others have said. Too much backing down and doing it too soon will be the issue for sure. That sort of approach was mostly needed with the older generation anchors like the CQR/plough and Danforth types. That keel-like thing under it is to tip it over so one or other edge gets a chance to bite in with more gentle movement, then turn her over so the point then can dig in. If you power back too early, it can just keep tobogganing along on that keel.

Let it sit for a bit with adequate scope, gently laid out, then a gentle back down after about a half hour - or however long it takes to relax with a coffee or similar - then, a mild back down under idle power should just set your mind at rest. Then have the same faith that we have that the light goes out in the fridge when we shut the door. ��

 

[mncruiser]

If you anchor in mud or rock, knock yourself out pulling on the hook as soon as it hits bottom. If you're anchoring in hard sand, or sand and shell, or a kelp bottom, backing down just means plowing up the bottom if you do it before it has a chance to settle. I watched a guy in Friday Harbor in a Nordhavn 70+ try to set a perfectly good anchor 5 times before he gave up. His technique was start backing down as soon as he had scope out. Doesn't work in some bottoms.

Yep. My last boat was on the Mississippi. I could literally drive to where I wanted to anchor, barely come off plane, drop the anchor, drift over it, be pushed back over it by the current, it would set in mud every time the first time.

It’s probably all me. Sounds like I need to tweak a few things.

Thank you!

 

[mncruiser]

Absolutely right. Like Delfin and several others have said. Too much backing down and doing it too soon will be the issue for sure. That sort of approach was mostly needed with the older generation anchors like the CQR/plough and Danforth types. That keel-like thing under it is to tip it over so one or other edge gets a chance to bite in with more gentle movement, then turn her over so the point then can dig in. If you power back too early, it can just keep tobogganing along on that keel.

Let it sit for a bit with adequate scope, gently laid out, then a gentle back down after about a half hour - or however long it takes to relax with a coffee or similar - then, a mild back down under idle power should just set your mind at rest. Then have the same faith that we have that the light goes out in the fridge when we shut the door. ��

I love it!!

 

[SteveK]

My problem is not holding, it’s setting. I think it may all be technique.

holding/setting same thing to me. when it does not happen you are plowing the seabed.

 

[DennisB1]

I have been using a vulcan for 6+ years it will not set with scope less than 3 to 1. Better would be to use about 4 or more to one. As noted the scope includes the water depth and height of the water of the bow roller. Let the chain out carefully with out puttiing a load on the anchor until you have achieved the required scope . When the slack is removed use the engine to set the anchor. It should set quickly

 

[CharlieO.]

Good on you for being open to suggestions to adjust your technique and not getting defensive and blaming the equipment.

I wasn't happy with the anchor that was mounted on our boat when we bought it, looked around at what other people in our marina use that actually anchor out. Luckily the spare anchor that came with the boat matched what about 50% of the people were running with.

 

[mvweebles]

I've never needed to let mine settle like some mention here. As long as tension is brought up somewhat gently it's always dug in just fine and continued to dig in with a harder pull.

The only seabed where letting an anchor 'settle' before power-setting is soupy mud; apparently common in the Chesapeake Bay region. I have no experience but would imagine the soak-time is measured in minutes, not hours. Other than that, please power-set your anchor before you declare Happy Hour. Your crew, insurance company and anchored neighbors will thank you for it.

Peter

 

[Arc]

My Rocna does much better after I switched from all chain the chain and rope. It now has never failed and I anchor well over 100 times a season.

 

[ranger58sb]

My 2001 Mainship 390 came with a Rocna Vulcan 44lb. anchor when I bought it 3 years ago. I was excited, after reading here for a number of years how it was a good anchor.

I boat in Lake Superior, specifically the Apostle Islands. I'd say 100% of my anchoring is in sand, I generally am 20 feet deep or less when I anchor, in mostly calm conditions.

My rode is all chain, well almost....the last 30 feet or so are line. I've never deployed it past the chain.

My problem is, I can't get this anchor to easily set, ever.

Is this anchor more difficult to use? I've got no other explanation than either I really suck at it....or it sucks! Ha!

I do notice there is a heck of a keel on the bottom of it. Does this make it harder to set?

Looking for ideas. I'm inclined to go for a plow type as my primary roller, I have a backup smaller Danforth anchor I may upgrade as well for a backup.

Or could it be me?

We have a Vulcan 40 (88-lbs), only just splashed a couple weeks ago due to some other ground tackle issues. I didn't notice any difficulty setting, although it's usually relatively easy in the mud around here anyway. An anecdotal sample of 1, not very useful. But I don't do anchor religion, so if it doesn't work out with more use, I'll start shopping again.

Vulcan instructions are to set at 5:1 scope. I suspect that means at no less than 5:1. Scope should include high tide depth (not just current depth) and distance from waterline to bow roller. 20' high tide depth and 5' off the water (for example) is 125' of rode... so if you're not letting out that much, that could be the issue.

Or... if you start tugging on the rode before you've reached 5:1... that could be the issue.

Comments about soaking before tugging -- briefly or longer -- may apply. Tugging technique could be a deal. FWIW, we tend to use a bunch of very short aftward "bumps" until I start getting the feel the anchor has begun to set.

That "keel" on the bottom is weighted, intended to help the fluke tip begin digging in. The shape is also meant to slightly lift the back of the fluke, in turn pointing the fluke tip down into the dirt... another aid to starting the burial process.

If it ends up the Vulcan doesn't work for you, another new-generation scoop type might be an OK option. Spade, Ultra, Super SARCA, etc. (although the latter looks like a plow to me, even though the Anchor Right guy screams otherwise). If you have to go shopping, you might want to view test videos by Steve Goodwin, S/V Panope, on YouTube; he also includes some decent comparison charts in some of those (#131, for example).

Were it me, I'd probably prefer a big Fortress as secondary. Partly since we know that works well in the areas we've been. A typical plow, the Delta anchor, isn't so great where we are now... although I never had issues with it when we were living in Florida.

My chain is marked, but faded and I think I’ve been guessing after awhile.

I think it’s likely I’m not letting enough rode out. I think I’m so concerned about it not setting and drifting into nothing, I’m not letting enough out, and not paying attention to how much I’m actually letting out.

I think that’s it. I did notice I had a lot of chain left last time, I think I have 180’ of chain.

I think it might be me!!!

My problem is not holding, it’s setting. I think it may all be technique.

Yep. My last boat was on the Mississippi. I could literally drive to where I wanted to anchor, barely come off plane, drop the anchor, drift over it, be pushed back over it by the current, it would set in mud every time the first time.

It’s probably all me. Sounds like I need to tweak a few things.

Thank you!

There are a couple recent anchoring threads on cruisersforum.com (sister site), including one at least that is on about Vulcans, and one at least that touches on technique. Including using the clutch, dumping the anchor, paying out rode, etc.

Technique with a Vulcan didn't (so far) seem to call for anything other than our normal manner of setting an anchor: SuperMAX, Fortress, Danforth, Delta, whatever...

-Chris

 

[rslifkin]

If you anchor in mud or rock, knock yourself out pulling on the hook as soon as it hits bottom. If you're anchoring in hard sand, or sand and shell, or a kelp bottom, backing down just means plowing up the bottom if you do it before it has a chance to settle. I watched a guy in Friday Harbor in a Nordhavn 70+ try to set a perfectly good anchor 5 times before he gave up. His technique was start backing down as soon as he had scope out. Doesn't work in some bottoms.

We don't get kelp here, but we do get weeds. I've yet to have trouble getting the Vulcan through them. But I'm not yanking on it hard as soon as the scope is out either (I've seen people drop the anchor while moving significantly and expect it to just yank the boat to a stop when they cleat the rode). It sits for a minute while I apply snubbers, chafe protection, etc. as needed and get the rode cleated off. Then it's time for a gentle back down (if the boat isn't blowing back fast enough) to just gently stretch the rode (which starts to pull on the anchor will plenty of catenary still in the chain, especially in deep water). Only then once it's starting to dig in does it get a harder pull.



In my mind, if I can't encourage it to set right away, how do I have confidence that it'll set at all after sitting for 30 minutes? And if it's windy, there's no such thing as just letting it soak, it's going to get pulled on whether I like it or not, so it's either going to work or it's not.

 

[sunchaser]

When anchoring in 20-40 feet of water:

We routinely set our Vulcan at 2.5 to 3.0 to one based upon measured water depth to bottom roller and predicted high tide for initial set. If the winds are predicted above 10 knots we add about one scope increase per 5 knots.

We’ve never had a dragging issue with the 40kg anchor even after as many as half a dozen reversing currents. We like the 3B chain vs the alloy for its weight which IMHO is a key to success due to the catenary effect.

Backing down hard seems like prolific dock talk from arm chair cruisers. Avoiding a chain pile is accomplished by insuring a slight reverse momentum.

We just idle back once the snubber is hooked up and when the chain starts getting tight go to neutral and let the boat’s momentum do the rest.

 

[SteveK]

When anchoring in 20-40 feet of water:

We routinely set our Vulcan at 2.5 to 3.0 to one based upon measured water depth to bottom roller and predicted high tide for initial set. If the winds are predicted above 10 knots we add about one scope increase per 5 knots.

We’ve never had a dragging issue with the 40kg anchor even after as many as half a dozen reversing currents. We like the 3B chain vs the alloy for its weight which IMHO is a key to success due to the catenary effect.

Backing down hard seems like prolific dock talk from arm chair cruisers. Avoiding a chain pile is accomplished by insuring a slight reverse momentum.

We just idle back once the snubber is hooked up and when the chain starts getting tight go to neutral and let the boat’s momentum do the rest.

This^^^^^
I have never understood the need to plow the seabed to get a good hold.

 

[BDofMSP]

Sean, you're welcome to try my spare Fortress if you want to compare using your current technique. Up to you.

BD

 

[ranger58sb]

When anchoring in 20-40 feet of water:

We routinely set our Vulcan at 2.5 to 3.0 to one based upon measured water depth to bottom roller and predicted high tide for initial set. If the winds are predicted above 10 knots we add about one scope increase per 5 knots.

Actually SET at 2.5 or 3:1? Or end up there, after post-setting scope adjustments?

We've only set our new Vulcan twice so far, so just followed the Rocna directions (set at 5:1). Would be good to know there's leeway there...

Our typical anchoring depth is 8-10' or so.

-Chris