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Old 04-11-2011, 09:25 AM   #1
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Rocna revealed

I imagine that many of you may be aware of the drama unfolding on other boating sites regarding allegations made against Rocna, as well as discoveries of facts regarding their advertising claims that show some of the most critical ones to be false.* Since some of us were involved in an earlier thread on the relative merits of 3rd generation anchors I thought I might bring everyone up to date on what is known, and speculated.

First, contrary to what is posted on their web site, Rocna does not have RINA certification for their anchors.* This was acknowledged by Rocna CEO Steve Bambury in postings here:* http://www.anything-sailing.com/showthread.php/7877-Manson-vs.-Rocna/page9 .* In other words, if you bought a Rocna believing what you were told by the manufacturer or by 'Craig Smith, affiliated with Rocna' that it had the certifcation claimed, you were duped.

Second, there appear to be serious questions with regard to the steel used in Rocna anchors.* While Craig Smith and the Rocna website say that their anchors are made of alloys for strength, that has not apparently proven to be the case with a Rocna purchased by a boater that bent so easily he had it tested.* The testing showed that a low grade of mild steel was used in the shank, not Bisalloy as has been stated by Craig Smith, nor other high tensile steels as other times stated are used in Rocnas by the same Craig Smith, son of the founder.* That conversation can also be found in the thread referenced above, although the test results have been temporarily removed pending verification by the site hosts - see post 290 in the above thread.* This defect has also been intimated at (some say confirmed) by former employees of Rocna who were posting on the Yachting and Boating World forum in the UK, but that thread has been closed down under threats of litigation.* Additionally, Rocna is currently being sued for non-payment by a key vendor in NZ, and included in the filings are similar allegations.* Regarding this last, I do not have direct confirmation of the veracity of the information, but I have no reason to think them false based on the source.* So, it may be that if you purchased a Rocna after the point in time when manufacturing was moved to China believing you had a state of art piece of safety equipment on board manufactured as described by the manufacturer, you may well be wrong.* See the attached image for an example of what hign tensile steel is not supposed to do.

Third, Rocna has for some time boasted that in the West Marine/Sail magazine tests that their anchor showed holding power "40% greater than the competition."* Those results turn out to be bogus, as they are based on a single pull where the presumption is that the Rocna snagged on a rock and held to 5,000# plus before releasing and not setting again.* It was an anamoly discarded by the testers that became the focus of a false claim by Rocna that their anchors were superior to others.* Sail magazine has commented that Rocna's claims are bogus, so this appears to be verified, and certainly is in the notes to the testing results.* So, if you bought a Rocna, paid a premium price for it based on its superior testing results, you were duped.

I bring all of this to the forum's attention not because I have any particular issue with Rocna, or any particular slant towards any other anchor manufacturer, but because it does appear that there are some serious reasons to carefully reconsider purchasing a Rocna anchor until all of this is sorted out, which it appears headed towards.

I doubt very much that if the allegations of false claims regarding metullurgy prove true that distributors will want to assume the liability of selling a product so blantantly not what it is represented to be, especially when that product is a critical piece of safety equipment on which a vessel's or crew's lives may depend.* For example, Fisheries Supply repeats the product specifications Rocna supplies that are now very much in question in their description of the anchor, for example:

"Rugged strength through superior engineering and heavy-duty quenched and tempered 800 mPa high tensile steel"

and

"RINA certified for Super High Holding Power (SHHP) for full range of anchors; 121 lbs, anchors can be individually certified by customer request"

We know the latter claim is false based on the CEO's own statements, and the evidence appears to support the claim that the former is bogus as well.

This is not going to end pretty, methinks.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:04 AM   #2
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RE: Rocna revealed

Why am I not surprised?

Rocna representatives have been very active on various boater forums to promote and defend their product as well as to put down other anchor types. Made me leery. ("He protesteth too much.")
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:22 AM   #3
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RE: Rocna revealed

Bambury posted metullurgy reports a short time ago that support their claims.* The problem is, since they have been caught out in making things up with regard to the RINA certification, the West Marine results and have behaved in a generally sleazy manner in their business dealings with competitors and vendors I'm afraid I'm not prepared to assume that what they say is fact in this case.* So I'll have to await for independant testing to settle whether Bambury is telling the truth, or his former employees, customers and vendors who contradict him.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:22 AM   #4
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RE: Rocna revealed

I have a neighbor that lives on a 65 ft Pacific Marine that switched to a Rocna anchor.* They belong to a club that anchors out a lot.* I will give him this information.*
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:26 AM   #5
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RE: Rocna revealed

Wow! Assuming it's all true, this is going to make me reconsider.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:29 AM   #6
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:
I have a neighbor that lives on a 65 ft Pacific Marine that switched to a Rocna anchor.* They belong to a club that anchors out a lot.* I will give him this information.*
*If it was made in NZ, it may be fine.* If it wasn't, it may not.* If one has a sample of the Q620D steel Rocna claims they use for the shank, and tap the sample with a blunt punch, then tap with the same punch and the same force the shank of their Rocna and compare the indentations they might get a clue if there is an issue, although I have been told this might be so inexact as to be useless.* Or, if one can find a portable digital hardness meter you could get the actual answer.

*
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:33 AM   #7
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:
Wow! Assuming it's all true, this is going to make me reconsider.
*Yep.* The posting I was following on the Yachting and Boat World forum made War and Peace look like a Reader's Digest article - it went on for 750 posts and over 40,000 views.* Eventually it came down to Rocna posting an allegation of pedophilia and embezzlement against a former employee who was blowing the whistle, which is why it was pulled.* Unbelievably sleazy, but what fell out at the end for me is that no one should assume anything about Rocna until more facts are out.* And that you won't get any facts from Rocna that you can necessarily trust.* That's the problem with dishonest people - they tell the truth sometimes so you never know where you're at.

*
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:11 AM   #8
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RE: Rocna revealed

He used to own a machine shop that made air plane parts so I am sure he will do some testing.* He did go to BC Canada and anchored most of the time, but that was during the summer months*with good results.* I think he is planning on going to*Alaska this year.* Most of us PNW live aboard do not leave the dock from October to May.

*****
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:28 AM   #9
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:
He used to own a machine shop that made air plane parts so I am sure he will do some testing.* He did go to BC Canada and anchored most of the time, but that was during the summer months*with good results.* I think he is planning on going to*Alaska this year.* Most of us PNW live aboard do not leave the dock from October to May.

*****
*That would be a great source of information.* This may be a case of much smoke and no fire, but some independant verification would be helpful.

*
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:54 AM   #10
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RE: Rocna revealed

Here is a link to a story on an anchor that has American Bureau of Shipping 'Superior Holding power' certification. Only problem is that I can't afford one! LOL

http://www.navagear.com/2011/04/07/q...certification/
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:59 AM   #11
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RE: Rocna revealed

Well, as one someone who has just purchased a 33# Rocna (Chinese built) in February this is very interesting. We haven't used it yet, in fact haven't even actually seen it, so hopefully it won't crumble as we gaze wistfully at it while it sits on the bow. Should have paid extra for the stainless version so that at least we could have a trophy anchor I suppose.

Thanks for the info and let's hope we have a more postive outcome from all of this than seems to be the case.
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Old 04-11-2011, 10:09 PM   #12
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Rocna revealed

Rumour is that they had to scrap several months of production about a year ago....


-- Edited by Singleprop on Tuesday 12th of April 2011 02:27:09 AM
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:01 AM   #13
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RE: Rocna revealed

Now you tell us. Oh well, will just have to see how it all plays out. I'm a duped one but it still did a heck of a lot better than my flat out too small Bruce.
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:29 AM   #14
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RE: Rocna revealed

Craig Smith's nemisis "The Alain" Poiraud, inventor of the Spade anchor, must be smiling up there! They had fantastic battles on some of the cruising forums.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:29 AM   #15
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RE: Rocna revealed

Hey, Delfin, have you taken delivery of your new Sarcas yet.* It's ok, we are both smiling, right...?
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:04 AM   #16
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Peter B wrote:
Hey, Delfin, have you taken delivery of your new Sarcas yet.* It's ok, we are both smiling, right...?
*No, they were out of my size, so I hope to loop back and get one later this year.

By the way, on Alain Poiraud's passing, Craig Smith snaked Alain's URL and linked it to a propaganda page written by his Pa on how all anchors but the Rocna suck.* Very classy.

*
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:39 AM   #17
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RE: Rocna revealed

Interesting information.* The Rocna was never high on my list of must haves.

Leary of things that claim to be the Best.* JohnP
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:02 PM   #18
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RE: Rocna revealed

One more reason to buy a Manson.
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:23 PM   #19
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
bobofthenorth wrote:
One more reason to buy a Manson.
I looked at the Rocna and the Manson at the Vancouver Boat Show in February, unaware of all of the turmoil surrounding the Rocna, and I have to say that visually the Rocna looked to be a better built product. And the pricing was very similar; in fact the Manson was a few dollars more as I recall.*

The fellow I was talking to about the Rocna intimated that Craig Smith was not doing the Rocna name much good.

*

*

*
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:57 AM   #20
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Rocna revealed

For what it's worth, and coming from a contented Sarca owner of some 8 yrs, I do believe the original NZ made Rocna is a very good anchor. It may well claw up more ocean floor than one would like, but it works. The Dashews on Wind Horse love theirs, but they bought an NZ made one.
However, if now made in China, and of inferior metal specs, then that is one really good way to destroy the reputation of any product.* <a href="http://www.google.com.au/search?q=wind+horse+yacht&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a" target="_blank">http://www.google.com.au/search?q=wi...ient=firefox-a
</a>



I bet they are wishing they could take that decision back...?

The Rocna people I mean, as far as I know the Dashews are still impressed with their anchor.


-- Edited by Peter B on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 05:59:33 AM
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