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Old 05-19-2011, 04:48 AM   #141
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RE: Rocna revealed

Good deal Carl- My past rants about Rocna nazis seems to come full circle. I have no working knowledge of these anchors, I have never even seen one. When any product is touted the way that the Rocna was on here, it just seemed to be unreasonable to me. Nomad willy (Eric) and others were attacked because they used "old Technology" anchoring systems, despite having worked fine for decades on their boats!
Thanks for the research and results!
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:36 AM   #142
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RE: Rocna revealed

Actually nomadwilly attacked because of Smith's attitude and "full of himself" presentation in addition to his saying repeatedly that all other anchors were garbage. But on most bottoms the Fortress anchor still has superior performance to the "new generation" anchors and it was designed in 1939 as I recall. No anchor is without it's faults though just like there's no practical car that will do all things. The SARCA is probably the closest to a "do all things" anchor that we have*** ....well as long as we live in Australia.
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:06 AM   #143
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RE: Rocna revealed

I'm pretty happy with my oversized Sarca hanging on the front of Gray Hawk but I hope that if I wasn't completely happy I'd be man enough to admit it.* I certainly got plenty of advice from people with Rocna's hanging on their bows to ignore my gut feelings toward Rocna's promoters and go ahead with a Rocna purchase.* We all owe Carl a big thank you for taking the time and money to quantify the fraud they were promoting.* I'd have really loved to be a fly on the wall in that West Marine coffee room when the manager told the story of the returned Rocna.
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Old 06-02-2011, 07:31 PM   #144
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RE: Rocna revealed

"Just call it what it is...a power boat."

Did I read (from Dashew?) that the FPB moniker*translates to: "*ucking Power Boats".
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:52 AM   #145
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
bobofthenorth wrote:
We all owe Carl a big thank you for taking the time and money to quantify the fraud they were promoting. *
agree, thanks to Carl *- and to Grant King and the other that has contributed.

Even if the Rocna get their act together (not sure that they can ever recover from their F-ups) then they still need to address the fact that their manufacturer appears to produce their anchors according to the cheapest procedure (check Grants previous post where he mentions that their manufacturer uses a computer to optimize the metal versus optimizes for the strongest "grains in the steel"....not sure that it is the correct wording...... ).

I am not even sure that the other manufacturers optimizes this - maybe they can answer.......
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Old 06-04-2011, 06:41 AM   #146
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RE: Rocna revealed

wow what great suprise another product made in china that is unsafe and not as avertised I am shocked rite next to the poison dog food and lead coated baby toys
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Old 10-06-2011, 09:28 PM   #147
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RE: Rocna revealed

I found this document regarding the Rocna anchor quality:

*

http://www.canmet.com/content/resour...CNA%20MEMO.pdf
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Old 10-06-2011, 10:52 PM   #148
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Singleprop wrote:
I found this document regarding the Rocna anchor quality:

*

http://www.canmet.com/content/resour...CNA%20MEMO.pdf
*Thanks for posting this. As a recent (Feb/11) purchaser of a Rocna anchor, I've been following these posts very closely, and am somewhat comforted by the message from Canada Metal.*

For what it's worth, the anchor performed extemely well this summer, setting very quickly and firmly in almost every instance. The one time it wouldn't set was more a function of the location so I don't hold it against the anchor.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:17 PM   #149
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RE: Rocna revealed

Yes, hopefully the new company will commit themselves to restoring the integrity of this brand. *It's a good design for many situations and it's sad that the prior management didn't match the integrity of the design with their own integrity.

However, I suspect the new owners are going to have to sweep the decks clean and get all the old guard iced if they are going to succeed in their task.

For reasons unknown to me, I recently received an unsolicited copy of an email sent from Peter Smith to a Rocna purchaser, attached below. The buyer had concerns about his anchor, and the attached is Mr. Smith's response. Not wanting to sandbag Mr. Smith, I advised him that I had been copied on this communication and asked him to respond or comment so that his perspective was taken into consideration before I posted it. Specifically, I asked 4 questions as follows, but did not receive a response:

1. You did not copy anyone from CMP on this. Are they not involved in resolving this issue with former purchasers?

2. You did copy Craig and Pocock. Does this mean they are both actively involved in dealing with this issue with you?

3. You stated that ones chain will bend before a Q620 shaft will bend. Based on your recommended chain sizes and their breaking strengths, is this a correct statement?

4. You stated that a Manson testing at 866 mpa shank strength is not as good as a defective 450 mpa Rocna. Could you give reasons why you believe this to be true?


My intent in asking the first question was to understand why the current owner of CMP would not be included in a customer service response. I frankly don't know what is going on here, and assume that CMP has delegated questions like this to Smith. However, it is puzzling that the owner of the company is having customer service handled by someone not belonging to the company.

Regarding the second question, it has frequently been stated that Craig Smith has no role at Rocna. Perhaps, but it is odd that he is copied on a customer service response. It also appears that the owner of Suncoast, the current (based on their web site) distributor of Rocna is also involved in this communication. To the extent that there are misstatements in this email, it is not unfair to say that they own them as well as Peter Smith.

The third question gets to a statement by Mr. Smith that defies physics and calls into question the degree to which he has been directly involved in some of the misstatements of fact that many have come to expect from Rocna. The breaking load of 1/4" G4 chain, recommended by Rocna on their website as appropriate for a Rocna 20, is 11,700#. The shank bending strength of the Rocna 20 anchor I tested is less than #1,550 pounds, so setting aside common sense, the statement made by Smith that the shank with*"normal usage will still not bend before your chain breaks"*is empirically false, so why would he make this statement except as a deliberate attempt to deceive the customer?

The final question goes directly to one of the aspect's of past Rocna promotion that many have found odious, and that is the tendency to puff their own product by trashing others. I understand brand loyalty, but I do not understand how a reasonable person would state that a defective Rocna with half the strength is better than a non-defective Manson at twice the strength.*

Given that these statements come from the founder of the company and the designer of the product, and given that some are false on their face, I am not sure who if anyone at Rocna can ever be trusted to be accurate in their statements to customers.

This is not to cast the slightest aspersion on CPM. They bought this brand and are trying to rebuild it. It is hard to imagine that they would repeat the mistakes of the past, but it is equally hard to understand why they would let people who do not tell the truth continue to speak for that product.

I do not own either a Rocna or a Manson, nor do I have the slightest interest in the success or failure of these companies. I do care about ethics in business, and felt that the public service element of posting this information outweighed my unease at posting a private communication, even if dis-identified.

If any of the above is unfair or inaccurate, I would welcome the correction from any source.


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Old 10-07-2011, 08:43 AM   #150
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RE: Rocna revealed

What I find entertaining is the ongoing concern about secrecy.* If I was being falsely maligned and I was defending myself to a customer I'd want him to broadcast the information from every rooftop.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:23 AM   #151
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RE: Rocna revealed

Thanks for all that information. I had seen the Rocna, and heard people talk about it, but much of it "sounded too good to be true"..... Happy now that I didn't buy one.... I'll stick with my Fortress and CQR.....
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:23 AM   #152
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
JAT wrote:
Thanks for all that information. I had seen the Rocna, and heard people talk about it, but much of it "sounded too good to be true"..... Happy now that I didn't buy one.... I'll stick with my Fortress and CQR.....
*There's a reason you see the Coast Guard boats, at least here in the NW, all using Fortresses. *They certainly don't a weight concern given the size of the vessels, so they must like them because of their holding power.
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:49 AM   #153
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RE: Rocna revealed

"so they must like them because of their holding power."


USCG boats are manned , so any anchoring would include an Anchor Watch.

The CREW probably loves them because of the fly weight.

To sleep at night our 60# Danforth , CQR and Bruce (with a 35H Danforth stern anchor) allow us to do without the extra crew.
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:20 AM   #154
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Rocna revealed

Quote:
motion30 wrote:
wow what great suprise another product made in china that is unsafe and not as avertised I am shocked rite next to the poison dog food and lead coated baby toys
sorry, that was a "bit cheap charlie" comment - *concidering that a large % of all US productcts are made in China.

that said *- I mainly buy producs that are EU, AU, NZ or US because of the warranty that comes with it - especially the EU that gives 2 years warranty. *


-- Edited by Singleprop on Saturday 8th of October 2011 11:21:45 AM
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:31 AM   #155
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Rocna revealed

Quote:
Singleprop wrote:motion30 wrote:
wow what great suprise another product made in china that is unsafe and not as avertised I am shocked rite next to the poison dog food and lead coated baby toy
*

But - you are absolutly RIGHT *about the big picture

-- Edited by Singleprop on Saturday 8th of October 2011 11:38:31 AM


-- Edited by Singleprop on Saturday 8th of October 2011 06:09:54 PM
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:20 PM   #156
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RE: Rocna revealed

I'm like Marin.

We buy the product we like best.
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