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Old 04-13-2011, 08:54 AM   #21
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RE: Rocna revealed

* * * * Man! That's one "wet" ride!

*
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:34 AM   #22
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Rocna revealed

Wet ride for sure.

*It would seem to me that the bow should be about 6' Higher.

A nice and expensive boat. I wonder who designed a boat like that.

Looks like in any kind of sea she would bury the bow more often than not.

Is that suppose to be some sort of wave piercing hull?

SD

O.K. Did some more reading on the Wind Horse.

Huh???

*

SD

*


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 09:43:03 AM
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:52 PM   #23
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
skipperdude wrote:
Wet ride for sure.

*It would seem to me that the bow should be about 6' Higher.

A nice and expensive boat. I wonder who designed a boat like that.

Looks like in any kind of sea she would bury the bow more often than not.

Is that suppose to be some sort of wave piercing hull?

SD

O.K. Did some more reading on the Wind Horse.

Huh???

*

SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 09:43:03 AM
*Skipper, I am one who would prefer to take an extra couple of days to get there in a full displacement hull than the alternative, but Dashew's designs do work.* The concept is light and fast, and Steve Dashew has some ridiculously huge number of blue water miles under his, and his wife's belt to prove he knows something about what he is talking about.* The bow issue isn't a problem, because he is usually surfing.* Setting aside the fact that his boats are about as buttugly as a vessel can be, they make passages, both sail and power, over very long distances successfully.

*
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:06 PM   #24
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Rocna revealed

Quote:
Delfin wrote:skipperdude wrote:
Wet ride for sure.

*It would seem to me that the bow should be about 6' Higher.

A nice and expensive boat. I wonder who designed a boat like that.

Looks like in any kind of sea she would bury the bow more often than not.

Is that suppose to be some sort of wave piercing hull?

SD

O.K. Did some more reading on the Wind Horse.

Huh???

*

SD


-- Edited by skipperdude on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 09:43:03 AM
*Skipper, I am one who would prefer to take an extra couple of days to get there in a full displacement hull than the alternative, but Dashew's designs do work.* The concept is light and fast, and Steve Dashew has some ridiculously huge number of blue water miles under his, and his wife's belt to prove he knows something about what he is talking about.* The bow issue isn't a problem, because he is usually surfing.* Setting aside the fact that his boats are about as buttugly as a vessel can be, they make passages, both sail and power, over very long distances successfully.

*

*This boat was designed by an architect, looking to do something new. This was his first and perhaps last attempt at nautical architecture. I saw the boat in an early issue of Passagemaker. Having recently passed on my collection of Passagemakers, I can't say without doubt, but my memory says it was powered by a small (and I want to say Lehman) power plant. The engine was mounted very low in the keel, which was about three feet wide at the bottom center, with a huge flat shoe. The hull and house are aluminum. Except for the lack of flare at the bow, and the excess of exposed windows forward, I love that boat. I think she would be a great boat for the inside passage to alaska, with a few carefully timed crossings. As I remember, she has a very much sailboat like hull form, with a long, wide keel.



-- Edited by Carey on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 08:07:50 PM


-- Edited by Carey on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 08:09:18 PM
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:08 PM   #25
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RE: Rocna revealed

Wind Horse could use a lot more buoyancy toward the bow.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:03 PM   #26
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RE: Rocna revealed

For you wannabe naval architects, I suggest you read Dahsew's website regarding the FPB design. There is about 8 years of design and 40,000 miles of blue water cruising under the Windhorse's keel. Fast, seaworthy*and economical; too good to be true - but it all works.

I saw*an FPB 64*in Anacortes last week. Serious boaters for sure. The owners recently delivered the vessel from NZ on its own bottom. Betcha won't see Nordhavn doing that!

Beauty is all in the eyes of the beholder. Mark, bow flare doesn't exist in blue water sailing vessels of today, why*should it exist in*a power boat? You will see no bow flare in North Sea pilot boat motor vessels either,*the genesis of the FPB design.

The year is 2011, fuel prices are above 4 bucks and Dashew's 64' vessels will*cruise comfortably all day in big waves at*9.5 -*10 knots and 3+ nmpg. This is an easy 75 nm more per day than a similar length Nordhavn and the speed needed to dodge the storms. For you with blue water experience, you know avoiding the storm track is the key to safety. With today's instant on board* weather knowledge, high relative *boat speed *and the use of a weather router, crossing the oceans is now so much safer.*

The FPB's efficiency and seaworthiness*is undoubtedly geared for the well heeled rare boater*having serious*marine*experience. I just wish I had one.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:07 PM   #27
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:

*This boat was designed by an architect, looking to do something new. This was his first and perhaps last attempt at nautical architecture. I saw the boat in an early issue of Passagemaker. Having recently passed on my collection of Passagemakers, I can't say without doubt, but my memory says it was powered by a small (and I want to say Lehman) power plant. The engine was mounted very low in the keel, which was about three feet wide at the bottom center, with a huge flat shoe. The hull and house are aluminum. Except for the lack of flare at the bow, and the excess of exposed windows forward, I love that boat. I think she would be a great boat for the inside passage to alaska, with a few carefully timed crossings. As I remember, she has a very much sailboat like hull form, with a long, wide keel.



-- Edited by Carey on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 08:07:50 PM



-- Edited by Carey on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 08:09:18 PM

*This is the latest in a series of offshore designs from Steve Dashew who has been designing boats and having them built by others for 30+ years, although this is his first machine powered voyager.* Dashew started with the Sundeers, which have hundred of thousands of miles of bluewater experience.* In the 4 years since launching, Wind Horse has 45,000 offshore miles, or about twice around the world.* Seem to work pretty well, although as I said, not necessarily my idea of the ideal voyager but indisputably successful and very well designed.

*
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:03 PM   #28
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
This is the latest in a series of offshore designs from Steve Dashew who has been designing boats and having them built by others for 30+ years, although this is his first machine powered voyager.* Dashew started with the Sundeers, which have hundred of thousands of miles of bluewater experience.* In the 4 years since launching, Wind Horse has 45,000 offshore miles, or about twice around the world.* Seem to work pretty well, although as I said, not necessarily my idea of the ideal voyager but indisputably successful and very well designed.
*
*As a previous convert.... power to sail ... then back to power I cannot argue with the fast passage times of the Dashew boats... I lusted for a sundeer during my sailing days.. They are smoking fast passagemakers... able to motor at 11kts too!. I understand Dashew's idea was that if you needed to go to weather ..or the speed dropped below 5kts it was time to start the engine.. and his boats didn't sail very well to weather. Regarding the Windhorse... it's hard to say too much agenst a boat that has voyaged that far in the short time she has been around... But that boat is SERIOUSLY UGLY... and the dinghy... I saw better looking dinghy's made out of corrugated roofing in the south pacific!.* The main issue I have is it is a very expensive boat... it's length / berth capacity has got to be the highest in the industry. That boat must cost a fortune to stay in a marina... and all for a couple. It was in Port Townsend a few weeks ago and I got a close look at it... it has some great qualities... but in person it's even worse that in the photos!. At least Dashew has gotten over calling it a UNSailboat..

HOLLYWOOD

*
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Old 04-14-2011, 04:51 AM   #29
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Carey wrote:

*This boat was designed by an architect, looking to do something new. ...........I can't say without doubt, but my memory says it was powered by a small (and I want to say Lehman) power plant. The engine was mounted very low in the keel, which was about three feet wide at the bottom center, with a huge flat shoe.

*Carey, I still have that article, and the boat is powered by twins.......so maybe that will contribute to the twins versus single discussion.* From memory they are quite low powered units, especially for a vessel of 83 feet.* John Deere 150 hp turbos I think.

*
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:34 AM   #30
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Old Stone wrote:
*Guess I must be bipolar, huh?
*not at all... and I do like the looks or YOUR boat.....

And for the record.... you don't need to get your shorts in a knot... of course it's MY opinion... Thank god not all boats look like that

HOLLYWOOD

*
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:49 AM   #31
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RE: Rocna revealed

Ah what the heck...I guess I'm the only one here who thinks the Wind Horse and its new bretheren are very handsome vessels in that they are classic examples of form following function. I happened to catch Wind Horse as she passed by Campbell River a few years ago and have to say that she was flying and yet just slid through the water with no fuss.

As mentioned, she has a huge Rocna on her bow. Thought I'd mention that just to stay on topic.

I'm surprised though that nobody has commented that there is no steering wheel on Wind Horse. Not one.
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:00 AM   #32
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RE: Rocna revealed

Way back in the last century when I was in high school and guys were messing with cars and engines and not I Pads, the old saying was, "If it won't go chrome it." This brings to mind teh notion that way too many of today's beautiful "trawler" vessels are parked in marinas with low hours on*their big engines. Grand Banks, Hampton, Horizon, OA,* etc you name it. All parked because the owner cannot afford time,* fuel*or upkeep.

Dashew has taken the reverse philosophy steps of doing away with exterior paint, packaging the space required for blue water cruising not dock sitting and untilizing small engines operating well into their HP range. His concepts*and products are designed*for an uncrewed vessel and capable well heeled owner/voyagers. Not too many fit this mold, but the few that do have fun.

Hollywood, you may want to debate with Steve his sailing vessel's ability to sail to weather. He is very accessible and I'm sure he'd take you up on a bet.
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:35 AM   #33
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RE: Rocna revealed

Conrad,** ...not so. I think they are "handsome" vessels too. I don't care for all that bare aluminum but the lines are great. I'd go look'in at an old FG version about 40' long w a 54hp engine**** .....in other words*** ...cheap. Windhorse's are unobtainium to me and I'd like to see more flare in the bow*** ...just to reduce the wave piercing tendency and to make it a bit dryer. I wonder what their hp/per ton ratio is?

sunchaser,**** I remember ""If it won't go chrome it.". But it was "don't" * ..not "won't". Like "six in a row don't go". And you did'nt see unpainted custom cars out of the shop either. However many were a work in progress to such an extent that some were forever in primer such that cars in primer became a bit vogue. The skinny bow w little or no flare on Windhorse was just a part of the design where he did'nt bother to or realize he was thinking IN the box (of sail boat design) while the rest of the design was "out of the box". Who car'es about sailing qualities**** ......I'm talk'in trawler here!
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Old 04-14-2011, 09:54 AM   #34
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RE: Rocna revealed

Bow flare vs buoyancy is an interesting debate. A perusal of Dashew's tank testing, computer models*and real voyaging clearly demonstrates unnecessary but esthetically pleasing "bow flare" eats up speed, requires more fuel and increases hobby horsing. The most positive attribute of bow flare is front deck space. With the pilot house aft, deck spray is not an issue.

Eric, who said*blue water cruisers*need bow flare? Dashew never*intended to make a slow inefficient "trawler" with lots of bow flare.*Bow flare is for go fasts*and partying at the dock! A very worthwhile endeavor I might add.
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Old 04-14-2011, 01:23 PM   #35
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Peter B wrote:Carey wrote:

*This boat was designed by an architect, looking to do something new. ...........I can't say without doubt, but my memory says it was powered by a small (and I want to say Lehman) power plant. The engine was mounted very low in the keel, which was about three feet wide at the bottom center, with a huge flat shoe.

*Carey, I still have that article, and the boat is powered by twins.......so maybe that will contribute to the twins versus single discussion.* From memory they are quite low powered units, especially for a vessel of 83 feet.* John Deere 150 hp turbos I think.

*

*Darn memory. I don't know what boat I am confusing it with.*

*
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Old 04-14-2011, 01:46 PM   #36
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Carey wrote:Peter B wrote:Carey wrote:

*This boat was designed by an architect, looking to do something new. ...........I can't say without doubt, but my memory says it was powered by a small (and I want to say Lehman) power plant. The engine was mounted very low in the keel, which was about three feet wide at the bottom center, with a huge flat shoe.

*Carey, I still have that article, and the boat is powered by twins.......so maybe that will contribute to the twins versus single discussion.* From memory they are quite low powered units, especially for a vessel of 83 feet.* John Deere 150 hp turbos I think.

*

*Darn memory. I don't know what boat I am confusing it with.*

*

*

*Carey, I'm pretty sure (I'm going on memory also) that you are thinking of Traveller, which was about 53' long, had bare aluminum everything outside, and had a Lehman sitting in a wide keel. Beautiful teak interior. It was a one-off by a fellow who then went on to build Ultralight aircraft. Or built them before, I can't remember. It was in PMM back in the late 90's I think.
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:04 PM   #37
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Conrad wrote:Carey wrote:Peter B wrote:Carey wrote:

*This boat was designed by an architect, looking to do something new. ...........I can't say without doubt, but my memory says it was powered by a small (and I want to say Lehman) power plant. The engine was mounted very low in the keel, which was about three feet wide at the bottom center, with a huge flat shoe.

*Carey, I still have that article, and the boat is powered by twins.......so maybe that will contribute to the twins versus single discussion.* From memory they are quite low powered units, especially for a vessel of 83 feet.* John Deere 150 hp turbos I think.

*

*Darn memory. I don't know what boat I am confusing it with.*

*

*

*Carey, I'm pretty sure (I'm going on memory also) that you are thinking of Traveller, which was about 53' long, had bare aluminum everything outside, and had a Lehman sitting in a wide keel. Beautiful teak interior. It was a one-off by a fellow who then went on to build Ultralight aircraft. Or built them before, I can't remember. It was in PMM back in the late 90's I think.

*Conrad

That's the one. So at least that confirms I'm not insane, but just a little mixed up. Doesn't she somewhat resemble the Dashew vessel?

*
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:34 PM   #38
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RE: Rocna revealed

I'd say bow flare is elementary Watson. To have lots of lift when meeting head seas one needs lots of volume in the bow. And if you don't have lots of lift in the bow you're going to go through waves instead of over over them. If you have a low PC (skinny bow) at the water line and a goodly amount of flare you'll have a traditionally designed boat w good low resistance without the tendency to bury the bow. The flared bow is not to reduce spray but to provide lift. I don't care what sail boats do. They probably get away w violating traditional yacht design principles by having very little mass in the ends of the boat. Less volume in the bow would be required to lift it over waves but trawlers usually have a flared bow and a fairly "pointy" water line form. Sailboats make many concessions to good yacht design in the interest of good sailing performance. As one would expect in most motor sailers you'll find a high volume bow w plenty of flair. It's a standard recipe for seaworthyness.
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:36 PM   #39
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:
Carey wrote:Conrad wrote:Carey wrote:Peter B wrote:Carey wrote:

*This boat was designed by an architect, looking to do something new. ...........I can't say without doubt, but my memory says it was powered by a small (and I want to say Lehman) power plant. The engine was mounted very low in the keel, which was about three feet wide at the bottom center, with a huge flat shoe.

*Carey, I still have that article, and the boat is powered by twins.......so maybe that will contribute to the twins versus single discussion.* From memory they are quite low powered units, especially for a vessel of 83 feet.* John Deere 150 hp turbos I think.

*

*Darn memory. I don't know what boat I am confusing it with.*

*

*

*Carey, I'm pretty sure (I'm going on memory also) that you are thinking of Traveller, which was about 53' long, had bare aluminum everything outside, and had a Lehman sitting in a wide keel. Beautiful teak interior. It was a one-off by a fellow who then went on to build Ultralight aircraft. Or built them before, I can't remember. It was in PMM back in the late 90's I think.

*Conrad

That's the one. So at least that confirms I'm not insane, but just a little mixed up. Doesn't she somewhat resemble the Dashew vessel?

*

*They're similar in that they are long narrow boats with the aged aluminum finish. The Traveller has much smaller windows and a pilothouse, while the saloon is somewhat lower and has strong (I assume) round portlights. Hadn't thought about it in a long time, but I do recall that I was quite impressed with it, at least from what I saw in the article. I believe that it had some serious offshore experience including a run out to Clipperton Island off South/Central America.

I found the Traveller more appealing than the Dashew boat actually.

*
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:55 PM   #40
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RE: Rocna revealed

Quote:

*This boat was designed by an architect, looking to do something new. ...........I can't say without doubt, but my memory says it was powered by a small (and I want to say Lehman) power plant. The engine was mounted very low in the keel, which was about three feet wide at the bottom center, with a huge flat shoe.

*Carey, I still have that article, and the boat is powered by twins.......so maybe that will contribute to the twins versus single discussion.* From memory they are quite low powered units, especially for a vessel of 83 feet.* John Deere 150 hp turbos I think.

*

*Darn memory. I don't know what boat I am confusing it with.*

*

*

*Carey, I'm pretty sure (I'm going on memory also) that you are thinking of Traveller, which was about 53' long, had bare aluminum everything outside, and had a Lehman sitting in a wide keel. Beautiful teak interior. It was a one-off by a fellow who then went on to build Ultralight aircraft. Or built them before, I can't remember. It was in PMM back in the late 90's I think.

*Conrad

That's the one. So at least that confirms I'm not insane, but just a little mixed up. Doesn't she somewhat resemble the Dashew vessel?

*

*They're similar in that they are long narrow boats with the aged aluminum finish. The Traveller has much smaller windows and a pilothouse, while the saloon is somewhat lower and has strong (I assume) round portlights. Hadn't thought about it in a long time, but I do recall that I was quite impressed with it, at least from what I saw in the article. I believe that it had some serious offshore experience including a run out to Clipperton Island off South/Central America.

I found the Traveller more appealing than the Dashew boat actually.

*

*For fun I just dug up my old Fall 1996 PMM containing the article on Traveler. Indeed a handsome vessel (if you like the bare aluminum finish) which came in at 52' long x 12'9" beam x 4'6" draft and displacement /ballast of 44,000/10,000 lb. Jim Millett was the designer/builder. It has one double and one single berth.

*
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