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Old 07-14-2011, 12:17 AM   #21
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New XYZ Anchor Report

Definitely the plan as far as I know. Just a matter of getting the right agent I think.

Actually Eric, coming back to a point you made re short scope performance.* I think that's why the Sarca performs quite well in that situation as well.* The critical thing there is, as you point out, not having such a long shank, and not too flat an angle between the shank and the fluke(s), and the Sarca is a compromise to that extent, as seen in the pics I previously posted, so that at short scope there is not too much upward leverage tending to pull the fluke out of the bottom.* Then if it is well dug in, as the Sarca, Spade, XYZ, and some others of similar design, tend to do, then short scope performance is enhanced in up to at least moderate conditions.

*


-- Edited by Peter B on Thursday 14th of July 2011 12:26:22 AM
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Old 07-14-2011, 12:47 PM   #22
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RE: New XYZ Anchor Report

When it comes right down to it IMHO.

*it is all about the amount of pressure applied to the point of the anchor.

The greater the amount of pressure at the point the better the set.

With a latteral pull as with most anchors with at least some chain.**The spade design is the best.

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Old 07-14-2011, 04:57 PM   #23
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New XYZ Anchor Report

Hey dude,****

You say "The spade design is the best". OK dude. That's great. Stuck your neck right out there. We Alaskans are'nt bashful** ..right? I said as much a couple of months ago. I think I had in mind it's max holding power from a design standpoint but it has ballast and once the anchor is set unnecessary ballast weight could be used for a bigger fluke. I say unnecessary weight as numerous anchors do an acceptable job of setting w/o the ballast. Also there is the long and vulnerable shank but I believe it is hollow for min weight but a lot of bending load can be exerted on it because of it's length. And according to one of the most comprehensive anchor tests I have it's short scope performance is in question. And w the long shank I personally question same. The Fortress out performs the Spade but it's storage on the bow is'nt user friendly and it is'nt ideal in rocky bottoms. I won't include the XYZ as it's only been tested by me so if I was given only one anchor the Spade may very well be the best. What could be better than the Spade guys. And personally I don't think the screw attachment of the shank is a problem.

Another thing about the Spade is that it is a work of art. Kind of like having a Jaguar of an anchor.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Thursday 14th of July 2011 05:04:43 PM
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:36 AM   #24
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Bump...

Hi Eric, want to give an update based on further experiences?
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:35 PM   #25
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Update? On the XYZ I spoze?

I'd love to but Willy has been out of the water since last fall when we came down from Alaska. My only boating since then has been a day of canoeing. Now I'm needing to winterize Willy for the winter and have a number of tasks to accomplish to that end.

So my anchor testing ended some time ago. But I did use the XYZ in this pic 8 or 9 times on the trip south and one of those times was in a 50 knot gale. It set good and held our Willard fast every time. In the gale we had to pick up and re-anchor in another spot and that went well too. Very strong winds that night and very heavy rain. One wouldn't think so but w my chisel tip it seemed to set better than w the original.

XYZ quit making steel anchors a while back but I think they are back to marketing galvanized steel again. You can call and ask. My XYZ is 18lbs and stows well on the foredeck. If you don't use much chain it can be easily hand deployed and retrieved. They do make a 33 or 36lb XYZ for bigger boats. There are XYZ's that I wouldn't recommend but if a gale is in the forecast and I can get it set I'll use this modified XYZ every time. There is no test on the standard XYZ that I know of. The XYZ in the link I posted w the anchor test is not the same and I don't recommend it. I carry a Manson Supreme and a Claw for rocky bottoms but found none on the trip south. The mild steel chisel tip I made in Alaska was/is temporary. I intend to make a tip w about 1/3 to 1/2 as wide a tip but w the same chisel straight across tip. And instead of mild steel I'll use 4140 high carbon steel and galvanize it. The one in the pic is coated w aerosol spray galvanize. I was surprised at how well it held up. PM me is an option and we could talk on the phone. I have a plan that includes Canada.

The XYZ anchor is somewhat experimental and I didn't intend to promote them. I'm usually just looking for interesting discussions. But I can recommend the XYZ shown in this pic w the shiny and pointed tip. I've only used it 4 or 5 times though and not in any wind.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:28 PM   #26
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Thanks Eric,

Sure is an odd looking duck. What impressed me in one of the videos was the way the streamlined shaft and cable attachment to the chain allowed the anchor to dive deep into the bottom where other anchors seem to only go so far down, then move horizontally.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:43 PM   #27
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Thanks Eric,

Sure is an odd looking duck. What impressed me in one of the videos was the way the streamlined shaft and cable attachment to the chain allowed the anchor to dive deep into the bottom where other anchors seem to only go so far down, then move horizontally.
And on that point Eric...if the above occurs with the XYZ, and that contraption sticking up from the shank does not "tip it up and tend to raise or direct the fluke back up", which is what you claim the roll bar of those anchors would do...why does that thing not cause that in the XYZ, because it looks like that is precisely whatt it might well do - but apparently doesn't..?
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:22 AM   #28
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I don't know.. that thing looks like it was designed either by committee or by Rube Goldberg...

No matter how good an anchor that is there is no way I would hang that off the front of my boat, it doesn't even look like an anchor. Just the time wasted to explain what it is to passers by would amount to a fair amount lost in life and wouldn't be worth it.

My past two boats that I anchored a LOT had Bruce's.. and they proved to be just fine and did the job (drug 1 time in 2+ years of cruising ) and the big Bruce on Volunteer never drug in 9 years.

I use 3/1 scope as a rule... back down while setting gradually and increase pull gradually. The new boat has a Forfjord anchor that I think is the biggest P.O.S. ever made... so much for what the commercial guys know. The unit on my boat is a 93 lb unit which is way overkill for a 40' boat.

In my view I have used a Delta on a couple boats I delivered and was really satisfied.. and the cost vs function on the Delta rates it high in my book.
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:10 AM   #29
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Peter,
You're absolutely correct ... it does try to lever the XYZ up. BUT consider that the cross sectional area of the "contraption" (I call it a horn (haha horns and hoops)) is far less than the R or MS roll bars and still less than the smaller dia hoop on the SARCA. So the pitch up force is less. Also the shape and length of the fluke of the XYZ has extremely high reluctance to being pitched up ... far less so on all the RB anchors. Also notice Peter that the weight of the horn is right over the fluke tip. Ideal for setting and "digging". And that there isn't much else but fluke to the XYZ ... also ideal.
So that's where it is eh? Horns and hoops.
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:35 AM   #30
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Hollywood wrote;

"Just the time wasted to explain what it is to passers by would amount to a fair amount lost in life and wouldn't be worth it."

Haha you seem to be an introvert all of a sudden. You'll not have to worry about starting up conversations and you could have a bit of fun w sci-fi explanations. "I found that thing next to a huge disk that started to hummmmmm. Some people like conversation pieces and of course the XYZ is perfect for them.

Your experiences w the Bruce is probably more typical than not. That's why people keep the anchor they have ... it works. Some however just like to surround themselves w new latest and high tech stuff. I'm a mix. I talk about old Buicks, old anchors and then buy an XYZ.

Yes I've read setting "gradually" is the highest performance method to that end. But if an anchor will set fast it will set even better slowly.

Forfjord? Yes I agree fully. I bought one (25lb) that was a fairly good size for my Willard but it would'nt set. Nor would my early ed XYZ (that I don't have anymore). Hauled out my old 13lb Danforth (w the forged shank) and it hooked up right away. Same place .. same bottom. Sold the Forfjord to the then harbor master for $1 a pound.

Delta? Talked to many Delta users and never encountered an unhappy one. Moonstruck (Don) is in that category I believe.
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Peter,
You're absolutely correct ... it does try to lever the XYZ up. BUT consider that the cross sectional area of the "contraption" (I call it a horn (haha horns and hoops)) is far less than the R or MS roll bars and still less than the smaller dia hoop on the SARCA. So the pitch up force is less. Also the shape and length of the fluke of the XYZ has extremely high reluctance to being pitched up ... far less so on all the RB anchors. Also notice Peter that the weight of the horn is right over the fluke tip. Ideal for setting and "digging". And that there isn't much else but fluke to the XYZ ... also ideal.
So that's where it is eh? Horns and hoops.
Sorry Eric...can't buy it. If that flat stalk thing does not deflect the fluke upwards on the XYZ, then you can forget the roll bar of those anchors doing it as well, as they positioned in a place much less likely, ie nearer the fluke end, and in the case of the Super Sarca, less surface area as well. Please watch that DVD again, and this time, believe your eyes. Truly...
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:56 PM   #32
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Peter,
Indeed you could be right there. The horn is higher and if had equal drag would tend to pitch up the fluke as much. That could very well be. So if I try the horn on my Supreme and remove the RB the resulting anchor may have the same tendency to pitch up. BUT it would need to be buried over 12" before any pitch up moment would occur. The shank on the Supreme is much higher than on the XYZ. On the XYZ itself the rode attaches below the horn so the XYZ would be buried that far before ANY upward force was generated.

I think both the RB or the horn will tend to pitch up the fluke but other forces will make it an acceptable negative. Kinda like the horizontal stabilizer on an airplane. It pushes the tail down and of course the tail being connected to the aircraft means the tail is pushing the aircraft down. The tail is more drag also (and more weight) but the benefits are worth it. With a canard airplane the "tail" is in front and provides lift .. the opposite of the aft mounted tail (horizontal stabilizer) that pushes the aircraft down.

How a bout the shank? One could eliminate the shank and just attach the rode to the fluke but no control of the attitude of the fluke would result. So we have shanks. And pads and roll bars and stocks and other stuff to control the fluke. The name of the game may be to minimize the "stuff" so the performance of the whole anchor is maximized.

But yes the RB, hoop and horn all tend to pitch the anchor up when pitching it down is more desirable. I'll bet that's why Rex made his hoop much smaller in diameter than the other RB anchors. The hoop is longer though. But when all things are acting together the anchor goes down most of the time. And the shank on most anchors tends to lift the anchor up but the flukes overpower it enough so that everything comes out right .. usually.
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