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Old 09-29-2014, 10:08 PM   #21
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Looks like a polished tractor seat ground to a point and welded to a shaft. I bet if you look real close you can see FarmAll engraved in the anchor.
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Old 09-29-2014, 10:09 PM   #22
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Parks,
Yes I just read that. What looked like a V shaped lead chamber like the Spade is in fact a V shaped empty cavity. This creates a lot of metal structure surface area that increases weight. So it could be ballast in disguise. My own favorite anchor the XYZ has disguised ballast well aft. In all fairness this design does look much more original than I had first thought. Has possibilities and a chance to better the Rocna as it has no roll bar.

A part that I don't like is the bottom of the fwd end of the fluke. I don't know how wide it is but it seems at a strange angle that may not work in harmony w the rest of the anchor. Looks like .. well not very streamlined. But then the Rocna didn't need to penetrate very deeply to generate lots of resistance. But when the force is less horizontal and a bit vertical (as in a short scope pull) more penetration would seem to be an advantage.
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Old 09-29-2014, 11:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by N4712 View Post
It's a totally different design.
Reminds me of a bicycle seat. Maybe they are on to something. (Edit -- posted this before seeing FlyWright's post. Don't great minds think alike?)
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Old 09-29-2014, 11:57 PM   #24
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Mark you forgot something.....
Attachment 33258

"Coot don't need know stinkin' hoop anchor"
You keep on reading my mind.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:01 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Reminds me of a bicycle seat. Maybe they are on to something. (Edit -- posted this after seeing FlyWright's post. Don't great minds think alike?)

Or even a JD seat!Name:  ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1412049673.137535.jpg
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Old 09-30-2014, 05:23 AM   #26
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I'd guess they have tested it and we have to assume, unless they are comedians, that it works.

It will be interesting to see how they manage to marry the contention that the roll bar was necessary, if not critical, and still sell the new design - in too many respects the 2 designs look 'contradictory'. To sell the new model, only on the basis that it will fit your bow roller - looks to deny themselves some market opportunity. We have lots of anchors that now work, Spade, Ultra, Rocna, Supreme, Excel, SARCA, Fortress - what is the technical edge of the new model, why would anyone want one over the others?

In view of the Fortress Chesapeake tests - will it work in soft mud?

Its an anchor so expect lots of spin - but maybe they will focus at nibbling at Lewmar's position (dream on?)

But I cannot think either Ultra or Spade will be sending Xmas cards to either Canada Metal or The Smiths.
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:24 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
Looks like a polished tractor seat ground to a point and welded to a shaft. I bet if you look real close you can see FarmAll engraved in the anchor.
Al...I had a good laugh at that, especially as we once had a Farmall tractor.

However, my second impression was that it is rather similar in principle over all (not farm all) to the Manson Boss. Anyone else think that..?

http://www.manson-marine.co.nz/Image...onBossGalv.jpg
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Old 09-30-2014, 07:40 AM   #28
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Greetings,
---------Good grief!----------
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Old 09-30-2014, 08:18 AM   #29
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The more I look the more it looks like an Ultra:



Oh and don't anchor in rock. This boat was lucky to get their anchor back.
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:44 AM   #30
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:06 AM   #31
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N4712 wrote "It's a totally different design."

I mentioned ballast earlier and supposed there may be ballast disguised. Looking at the "tractor seat" I see something that looks a lot like a roll bar. The outer edge of the "seat" looks a lot like a roll bar. Perhaps they just moved the roll bar down and back. With a clever arrangement of the CG maybe it could work as the roll bar did.

But I still think it looks more like a Spade than anything else.

Went back an looked at the link on the OP.
" The new anchor design features a unique combination of shank and fluke geometry, which in conjunction with a roll-palm at the rear of the fluke, self-rights the anchor". Hmmmmmm

Actually I went back to find this;
" "Rocna Anchors designer, New Zealand sailor Peter Smith, has been designing, building and sailing boats since the early 1960s and experienced the same anchoring problems that are still prevalent today – unreliable anchors that make boaters feel insecure. “Your anchor should provide you and your crew with reliability, security and confidence,”.."
He seems to be trying to scare boaters into thinking their anchors are unsafe and the only responsible thing to do is buy his product. Blow their confidence out of the water and they must have great motivation to get a new anchor. It's called creating a market where there was none. I think I've heard a lot of similar stuff from PS and it's worked well for him.

I don't like the above at all but I actually kinda like the new anchor. But there's no new market. We don't need it. The seven anchors I have have never failed me and if one does I've got 6 to go.
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:24 AM   #32
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RTF, I have a new generation version of that anchor. It has a hole drilled through the rock to aid in the attachment of the rope.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:00 PM   #33
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RTF, I have a new generation version of that anchor. It has a hole drilled through the rock to aid in the attachment of the rope.
Parks you and RTF are wayyyyyyy behind. You need the new gen rock anchoring device.
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:10 PM   #34
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Hi Oliver, I see you have the famous Egyptian Pyramid Anchor, invented by Ramses himself. All great civilizations are know by their anchor designs. Our civilization will be remembered as confused.
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:23 PM   #35
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Sorry Gents,

I should also have posted the next para in Peter Smith's new patent but thought you would have already appreciate the problems of an anchor that relies on a roll bar for self righting.

Here is a more complete quote:

Close reading of PK Smith's patent application shows his recognition of a common criticism of the Rocna Original, to wit:

"[0009] Existing anchors that self-right by way of a roll-bar
have hitherto made use of solid round bar or hollow tube.
Solid bar is either too thin to reliably keep the rear of the
anchor when upside-down from sinking into a soft seabed, or
unnecessarily heavy if made of larger bar diameter. Alternatively
a hollow tube may fill with mud entering by way of the
openings which cannot be sealed if the anchor is to be hot dip
galvanized. Neither method provides any further benefit once
the roll-bar has performed its function of orienting the anchor
to the correct attitude for setting. This is disadvantageous.

"[0010] Furthermore anchors may sink some distance into
the seabed when the rear edge of the fluke digs into the
seabed. This reduces the ability of the anchor to roll into the
correct attitude for effective use. Again this is disadvantageous."

The remedy the new Rocna proposes includes end quote etc

Fortress actually raised this problem only 2 weeks ago, prescient comes to mind. It appears they might well be right.

Now none of you might have experienced the problem (or these problems) but if the designer of your anchor (who has used that same anchor much more than anyone else) perceives a problem sufficient for him to spend an enormous amount of time and money to design something to overcome these same problems then sadly I respect the opinion, in this instance, of the designer. I also believe the designer as he preached so much about the advantage of the roll bar he has swallowed his pride to state that he was wrong. Maybe swallowing pride will become more common place As I said he has put real and lots of money toward the issue so his comments have credibility. Now if you think you know better - fine you ignore it and keep preaching your mantra.
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:52 PM   #36
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I like it! I'm just not sure it would hang handsomely on the Coot's bow.

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Old 10-01-2014, 12:15 AM   #37
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Hi Oliver, I see you have the famous Egyptian Pyramid Anchor, invented by Ramses himself. All great civilizations are know by their anchor designs. Our civilization will be remembered as confused.

We'll have see if we could add that into the world history textbooks.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:20 AM   #38
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I like it! I'm just not sure it would hang handsomely on the Coot's bow.


Yes, but a larger version on ship wouldn't look half bad, the whole shank would be inside the hawse pipe. The only thing you'd be able to see from the outside would be a triangle that could double as one hell of a battering ram.Click image for larger version

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Where's Larry when you need him?
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Old 10-01-2014, 04:01 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djbangi View Post
Sorry Gents,

I should also have posted the next para in Peter Smith's new patent but thought you would have already appreciate the problems of an anchor that relies on a roll bar for self righting.

Here is a more complete quote:

Close reading of PK Smith's patent application shows his recognition of a common criticism of the Rocna Original, to wit:

"[0009] Existing anchors that self-right by way of a roll-bar
have hitherto made use of solid round bar or hollow tube.
Solid bar is either too thin to reliably keep the rear of the
anchor when upside-down from sinking into a soft seabed, or
unnecessarily heavy if made of larger bar diameter. Alternatively
a hollow tube may fill with mud entering by way of the
openings which cannot be sealed if the anchor is to be hot dip
galvanized. Neither method provides any further benefit once
the roll-bar has performed its function of orienting the anchor
to the correct attitude for setting. This is disadvantageous.

"[0010] Furthermore anchors may sink some distance into
the seabed when the rear edge of the fluke digs into the
seabed. This reduces the ability of the anchor to roll into the
correct attitude for effective use. Again this is disadvantageous."

The remedy the new Rocna proposes includes end quote etc

Fortress actually raised this problem only 2 weeks ago, prescient comes to mind. It appears they might well be right.

Now none of you might have experienced the problem (or these problems) but if the designer of your anchor (who has used that same anchor much more than anyone else) perceives a problem sufficient for him to spend an enormous amount of time and money to design something to overcome these same problems then sadly I respect the opinion, in this instance, of the designer. I also believe the designer as he preached so much about the advantage of the roll bar he has swallowed his pride to state that he was wrong. Maybe swallowing pride will become more common place As I said he has put real and lots of money toward the issue so his comments have credibility. Now if you think you know better - fine you ignore it and keep preaching your mantra.


Sorry, I'm a little confused here, I understood that Peter Smith not been associated with Rocna's for quite a few years, surely this new model is a Canada Metal product.

Personally I don't see an issue with two different style anchors under the one brand, Rocna is not the only manufacturer to go down this path.

Some people don't like the hoop concept on principle , so I guess this is Rocna's attempt to woo this group and sell some more anchors.
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Old 10-01-2014, 06:04 AM   #40
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Now I'm confused:

Peter Smith who developed the original Rocna and who was reported by IBI in July? (this year) as testing the New Rocna on a motor boat (and the image looks like the anchor in the recent Press Release) in Vancouver licenses the manufacture of his designs to CMP. He is also the individual to apply for Patent protection from the American Patent authorities. But maybe I'm wrong.
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