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Old 02-15-2011, 09:00 PM   #21
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

*Do the rest of you on this forum actually believe these newer anchors are 20 times as good as the old?
If a new generation anchor (sorry) holds our boat where an old generation anchor dragged, I would say the new anchor is 100 percent and a billion times*better than the old one.* But it would be a tough thing to prove with any consistency because anchoring is nothing but variables.

*
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:06 PM   #22
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

*Do the rest of you on this forum actually believe these newer anchors are 20 times as good as the old?
No I don't.* From all the hype, one would think that that older anchors weren't any more effective than a rock at the end of a rope.* Anchors are treated as fashion statements: you aren't "with it" unless you have the "now" anchor.* If I began to experience anchoring failures, I'd probably end up spending +$$ for some newfangled anchor.**I've found*the "muck" at the bottom of the San Francisco Bay/Delta area, however, to be*very kind to anchors.

*
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:07 PM   #23
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Eric, I think there is an alternative way to look at this question.* No, newer anchors are not 20 times better than older designs.* However, if you're hanging from a rope from the 50th storey of a building that breaks when loaded at 5# less than your body weight, that rope is worth a whole lot less than a rope that breaks at 5# more than your body weight.* It's all in the outcome, and the best possible design, even if only marginally better, can be pretty decisive if your boat is at stake.
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:35 PM   #24
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New anchor buying decision

When the question is: What will hold your boat in a desired position while the vessel is being influenced by tide, current, winds, etc., I have found that the "sky hook" feature on the Zeus drives does a teriffic job.



-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 10:36:42 PM
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Old 02-15-2011, 09:41 PM   #25
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Quote:


nomadwilly wrote:
*Do the rest of you on this forum actually believe these newer anchors are 20 times as good as the old?
Marin wrote:
If a new generation anchor (sorry) holds our boat where an old generation anchor dragged, I would say the new anchor is 100 percent and a billion times*better than the old one.* But it would be a tough thing to prove with any consistency because anchoring is nothing but variables.
*_________________________________________________ ________
and Delfin wrote
Eric, I think there is an alternative way to look at this question.* No, newer anchors are not 20 times better than older designs.* However, if you're hanging from a rope from the 50th storey of a building that breaks when loaded at 5# less than your body weight, that rope is worth a whole lot less than a rope that breaks at 5# more than your body weight.* It's all in the outcome, and the best possible design, even if only marginally better, can be pretty decisive if your boat is at stake.
__________________________________________________ _________________
Gentlemen, I think the above comments about sum this issue up very well.* Marin refered to the variables - ie "the things we don't know we don't know".
Well that being the case, doesn't it make sense to elliminate what variables one can - and top of the list of those is to have an anchor that sets reliably and quickly and repeatedly in as many bottom types as it can, thus removing one worrying variable. Then, taking up Defin's point, make sure the*tackle connecting all this to the boat is heavy enough to do the task with some reserve.* After that it is basically a case of using ones common sense as to what other unexpected variables might then apply in any given situation, and adjusting plans accordingly?

*
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:04 PM   #26
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New anchor buying decision

Marin,
I know you're not sorry.

Mark,
That's what Rex said*** ....if your anchor works fine why change it. But I know eventually I'll anchor in twice as much wind as I've experienced w my Danforth.

Carl,
Thank god I'm not anchoring from 50 story buildings.

Yea Walt.

Peter,
Sense and common sense. Your'e always there with it and that's to our advantage.
Thanks Peter.

Sorry my anchor test hyperlinks didn't work. Just tried them a few minutes ago. Sorry.

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 11:09:33 PM
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Old 02-15-2011, 10:19 PM   #27
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Lots of problems ought to be avoided with a 1:7 to 1:10 scope.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:36 AM   #28
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:
Sorry my anchor test hyperlinks didn't work. Just tried them a few minutes ago. Sorry.

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 11:09:33 PM
Aha....so it wasn't just me then.....
Maybe if you copied in the actual URL Eric, I think what fooled us was it looked like you copied them from your saved file name, which is not a URL - I was able to work out what the URL was for a couple of them, and get them up - some others not.

*
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:14 AM   #29
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RE: New anchor buying decision

The point missed here is an anchor that is*of *lightyears better design (doubtful)** than the previous means one could realistically get by with a*lighter anchor, which none of us are willing to do. So unless you are willing to triple the capacity of your rode and cleats,* the old designs if of sufficient mass are just fine.

Me, if I*had to buy a new anchor would replace my Bruce with a one size up Rocna. But that said,*Sarca sounds good if it were only available in NA. My standby unused Fortress remains in its bag testing its half life.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:28 AM   #30
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Mark,
If I had lots of room I'd be at long scope all the time. It's easy to pay out more line.

Peter,
Sorry to say I don't know what URL is. It's part of an address I know but???
The only way I learn anything is to try something new. It wouldn't let me copy right off the downloads page so after much stressing and the possible sacrifice of a download I had 2 of I found I could put them on my desktop and then they went to the post ect ect. Don't really know what I'm doing. Can I post a hot link from my downloads? Do you guys want to see all those anchor tests? The anchor talk seems to be a bit burnt out.

Tom,
"could realistically get by with a*lighter anchor, which none of us are willing to do."
That's what I've been more than willing to do. I wanted to find an anchor and rode that would give me good performance w a rig light enough to easily pull by hand. W my 25' boat anchoring was a joy. I liked pulling by hand and everything was easy to handle.
But now my boat is bigger and weighs 4 times as much and I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too. Thought I could do it w a far out anchor*** ...XYZ. Still haven't got the new one yet. But if this one dos'nt work well I'll give up and go conventional. Don't know what you guys will do for entertainment.
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:55 PM   #31
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Eric
You will then buy another boat and we can all go thru the same processes again but on a slightly larger scale.
One thing about it one learns a lot to either take in or disregard from all this chit chat.

I am a great beliver in the newer anchors as there has been considerable research gone into their development some good and
some not so good.
If one fins an old anchor doing the job then ok but sometimes the newer units do have more holding power and the anchor is the best insurance you can but for
your boat.

Benn
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:00 PM   #32
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Benn,
Funny you should mention that as a guy called me today returning my call of a month ago about a larger boat. Now I'm think'in about it again.
Yes a lot of thought went into these new anchors Benn but a lot of thought went into the old anchors too. In our country one dosn't need a better product to land a lot of sales.
All that's necessary is that the product be largely new. I'm a big fan of the Danforth anchor because I have one that works very well. I have'nt tested it in a 50 knot gale and if it held there I'd say it's perfect ** ...perfect enough. I was a supporter of the claws to the extent I considered them a fairly good anchor but I've seen too many of them dragging on their sides w only one or 2 flukes in the sand. I've never been a fan of CQRs and only briefly for Forfjords. And thousands of boaters are cruising without mishap with these anchors. But I held firm at anchor w a spacey looking new style anchor in a 50 knot gale and the that anchor only weighed 13lbs. All I want is an easily handled by hand anchor that will be safe for my boat. It's not unobtainium*** ..the Fortress is such an anchor and I may very well wind up w one soon.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:43 AM   #33
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Eric, you're talking of going for a Fortress and you have an XYZ on order. Cancel it quick is my advice, because if you insist on hauling by hand, the Fortress sounds to be the goer....
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:00 PM   #34
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Yes Peter. I'm going to call the guy tomorrow and tell him if he can't seem to get the thing here he should just send the money back. One way or the other. Rex sent me a nice e-mail about what you guys call an anchor buddy and we call a Sentinel or Kellet. It's a weight (10 to 20lbs) that has it's own deployment and retrieval line. The weight slides
down and later up the anchor line to help keep the rode low at the anchor shank much like the catenary from a chain. By using the buddy I can hand deploy a lot heavier ground tackle as it's deployed in 2 installments*** ...not all together. That way I can use an anchor that has less low scope performance and have more of same. I have a Supreme that should be a fairly good rock anchor and the Fortress should take care of most anything else. Re:*** your post the XYZ weighs only 18lbs.
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:12 PM   #35
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Actually I nearly suggested an anchor buddy to you once before Eric, as it does seem to provide one answer to you specific situation, and I can't see why it would not work, but I couldn't remember the name. Of course there are those who maintain a kellet makes little difference, but to me the physics says it should.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:23 AM   #36
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Delfin, just curious as to why you have not considered the Forfjord as they are on a quite a few boats in Anacortes.* Last Sunday the wife and I drove up to Anacortes for brunch, did not*see your*boat but then again we did not get out of the car as it was cold. We were disappointed there was not a cozy restaurant down at the marina?* We loved the restaurant and marina before the remodel.


*
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:29 AM   #37
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Peter,
I've had some thoughts about the Kellet. If one was in a 100 knot gale and one's rode was straight out and the anchor was holding firm (a SARCA no doubt) and we ran a Kellet down the rode 2'. Shouldn't make any difference. If we ran the Kellet half way down the rode the rode would basically be still straight and the RAA (rode anchor angle) would be the same. No mater where we put the Kellet the RAA would be the same. Interestingly the Kellet in the middle would cause more tension on the rode at both ends that could even cause the anchor to break out. So when we would need it most it would'nt work. In a gale of only 50 knots and mostly all line rode (that's what one would use w a Kellet) the situation would'nt be much different as the rode would be fairly straight. In a 10 knot gale the anchor line would droop (have catenary) considerably. Then a 6 lb Bruce would probably hold my Willy fine. In a 30 knot gale I know my old 14 lb Danforth Holds fine w only a few feet of chain. So when am I going to benefit from the Kellet?
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:50 AM   #38
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Phil Fill,
You should have walked up town (just a few blocks) as there's quite a number of wonderful places to eat there. We miss all the wonderful eating out down south.
There's lot and lots of Forfjords on fish boats here Phil. Have you ever seen one like in this picture? It looks like the skipper welded on extra fluke area for mud anchoring.
Everyone thinks the Forfjord is great. My friend in the Craig area w a Willard much like my own has a 65lb Forfjord and the hydraulic reel winch most fishermen use. Unlike a Danforth the flukes on the Forfjord angle outward instead of inward like the Danforth types. A lot of boats like Carl's have the Forfjord.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:10 AM   #39
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RE: New anchor buying decision

Those Forfjord anchors pictured are HUGE compared to the size of the boats.* My impression is although anchor's size should make an effective anchor system, it doesn't look efficient or practical for many/most recreational boats.* Where am I going wrong here?
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:38 AM   #40
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RE: New anchor buying decision

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My impression is although anchor's size should make an effective anchor system, it doesn't look efficient or practical for many/most recreational boats.* Where am I going wrong here?
You aren't.

*
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