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Old 01-10-2011, 01:10 PM   #21
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

Tom,
Your'e right******** .......for surfing.
But who needs to surf?******* .....planing hulls.
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Old 01-10-2011, 02:59 PM   #22
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Need Help with Windlass Application

It would seem having two windless one on each side would be better than one that straight.* One on each side would keep the mast from tipping to one side.* The winches I bought have a 6 ft wiring, which you could lengthen and/or modify so one control could power two winches.**And if you have the mast tipped back wards a bit, you would not need a winch to pull it down.**So instead of two fixed forward strays you have two winches that power the stays.* Just a thought.*


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Monday 10th of January 2011 04:01:53 PM
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #23
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

With the Ice and cold we have had here in Pensacola I have taken the day indoors to narrow down the design. I have come to the conclusion that i will simply have 3' of height removed from mast and have it fixed to the bulkhead and floor with no worries of lowering and raising each time I leave port. This will make my wife a happy trawling partner...She will say I will be much more pleasant person to deal with coming and going having to not worry with this issue. It's a win win. Thanks for all or your suggestions. I will take pics when everything is installed.

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Old 01-10-2011, 06:34 PM   #24
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

Quote:
phishown wrote:

*I have come to the conclusion that i will simply have 3' of height removed from mast and have it fixed to the bulkhead and floor with no worries of lowering and raising each time I leave port.
That's a sound decision.* The "pain and suffering" you will avoid*is*significant.

*
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:54 AM   #25
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

"If you look at commerical ships where low drag and high efficiency are critical they all have 'canoe stern" underbodies. "

Indeed, , BUT the commercials operate at basically one speed, are seldom accelerated either by oversized engines or waves astern.

The lower hull speed of a canoe stern can cause the waves to break by adding energy to the wave .

At low SL speeds low wetted area counts far more than stern shape .

At higher speeds the stern shape does count.

Performance has lots of forms, A round stern is fine for turning against pilings , a transom can allow probably 2x the guests aboard than the pointy end.

Performance like beauty is in the mind of the owner.
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:00 AM   #26
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

Quote:
FF wrote:The lower hull speed of a canoe stern can cause the waves to break by adding energy to the wave .
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???????????????* If the waves are breaking, aren't they dissipating energy?
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:46 AM   #27
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

FF,
Depends on the hull in question. Take an old GB. Give it a good full disp stern like a Sharpie sail boat and it would experience a large reduction in drag w the Sharpie stern. But then the GB wasn't designed to go at the low SL ratios I think you had in mind. And I'm sure you're alluding to the rule or fact that at slow speeds surface area drag is higher than wave making friction caused largely by hull shape. Under power at 7 knots the GB 36 does not have an appropriate hull form but the same boat on the face of a breaking sea running an inlet in the nasty has a far better hull form than my Willard. In Willy the breaking sea from astern pushes her beyond her hull speed due to gravity and the steepness of the wave. The "suction" under the pulls her down at the stern and the sea washes over her and whatever happens next could be a good tale without a happy ending. FF says "At low SL speeds low wetted area counts far more than stern shape".
Yes but only at speeds that are appropriate for it's length, displacement and speed.
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:03 AM   #28
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

The main reason boats are "faster" today is size and weight.

The 35 Year issue of Cruising World shows that in the "old days" a heavy boat like a WetSnail 32 was considered the norm. To carry food and water for 2 or 3 for up to 60 days required a heavy displacement boat to carry the load of thousands of pounds.

Today the same mom & pop cruiser will be mid 40's long, and with the same burden the 45 fter can be lighter.

The hulls today are lighter as the builders are willing to go a bit higher tech and resin that was 17c a pound is now 10X that or more for a better grade.

With noisemakers now the norm sophisticated auto pilots can be fed , as the water maker makes 400G a day for our intrepid couple. Lousey unbalance hull shapes can be steered with a good enough auto pilot that is quick and very strong.

In the "old " days the hull shape was REQUIRED to be sweet enough for a self steering to do the helm chores.

Sail cruisers are faster today due to bigger boats are faster than smaller boats , and lighter boats are always easier to stuff thru the water , but "better" would need a daffynition of Better.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:26 AM   #29
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

FF

Thank*goodness the SV*designers don't listen to you. If they did, we'd still be re-caulking the HMS *Resolution.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:37 AM   #30
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

The only thing the sailing vessel sellers listen to is the MARKET.

Today folks want roomarans , even in sail , so huge square transoms , "sailing deck houses" and fat boats are in vogue.

Since much of the hull can be rolled out of the water under sail the shape (like an 1860 NY Sandbagger) gets acceptable when well heeled .

Just as in motor boats, the slip is charged for by LOA so a fat hull doesn't cost more to own.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:56 PM   #31
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

Quote:
FF wrote:

Just as in motor boats, the slip is charged for by LOA so a fat hull doesn't cost more to own.
Not any more.* We just received a newsletter from the Port of Bellingham stating that they are contemplating (which means "are") changing from a moorage fee based on the length of the slip*to a moorage fee based on the boat's area (length x width).* According to them other marinas in this area are changing to this charging system or already have.

*
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Old 01-13-2011, 02:32 PM   #32
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

Port of Edmonds, WA. has charged moorage on a square foot basis since before 1996.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:47 AM   #33
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Need Help with Windlass Application

"We just received a newsletter from the Port of Bellingham stating that they are contemplating (which means "are") changing from a moorage fee based on the length of the slip to a moorage fee based on the boat's area (length x width). According to them other marinas in this area are changing to this charging system or already have."



This is fantastic good news if it spreads. The easiest way to get better "efficiency", boat speed vs fuel burn is to simply have the boat far longer. A Length / beam ratio over 6 is required to get fast as well as cheap to operate,

A 40 ft boat 15 ft beam vs a 60 ft LWL with a 10 ft beam , would be no contest for the fastest sea kindly ride.

Perhaps the era of Bloat Boats is coming to a close!!

Break out those old drawings of Commuters!

-- Edited by FF on Friday 14th of January 2011 05:50:49 AM
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:30 AM   #34
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Need Help with Windlass Application

Seems to me a more logical, fairer*basis is the size of the berth/slip.* How effective one uses the space should be the boater's concern.* Why should I pay more for a bigger boat compared to a smaller boat using the same-sized berth?* The marinas I've checked out here charge by the size of berth.* Or am I off base (staying up way too late)*because the square-footage basis relates to moorings only?

-- Edited by markpierce on Friday 14th of January 2011 06:32:50 AM
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:54 AM   #35
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

At Port of Edmonds, we are charged for the size of the berth:* In my case, 40' x 15.5'.* There is also a minimum rule of having a boat with a LOA of 80% of the slip length.* Also, maximum 2' hangover, and you pay extra in 1' increments.
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Old 01-14-2011, 09:53 AM   #36
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

Most in Vancouver charge by the greater of slip length or boat length. Up to you to find a slip the correct width. Many older marinas have narrow slips in abundance, newer marinas have wider slips.
Shelters in our YC are by area under the roof.
Our YC is constantly wrestling with the pressure on slip width, and moves fingers along where they can, to accommodate wider boats. Reconfiguring of the whole marina has occurred a couple of times over its lifetime and will again, as pressures dictate.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:28 AM   #37
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

That would seem a no brainer to me * * * ......just put a narrow boat in w a fat boy. With the narrow fairways down south I can't see why there should be any overhang at all and the bow shouldn't be hang'in over into the place where people walk. Outboards should be measured w their engines tilted all the way up. People put pads on the pulpit or anchor because others do bump into them. I'm a hard case on this overhang bit...*shouldn't be any at all. And the cost of the slip should be based on only the length of the slip. The cost to the boat owner should reflect the cost of providing the service. Just because a Marina has a lot of fat boats dosn't mean they should get any more money in slip fees. Of course the above only applies to public facilities. Private marina's should have the right to make any rules they want and charge whatever rate.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:12 AM   #38
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Need Help with Windlass Application

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Just because a Marina has a lot of fat boats dosn't mean they should get any more money in slip fees.
While I'm certainly not a proponent of higher moorage fees, the Port of Bellingham has a mandate that Squalicum Marina must be self-sufficient.* In other words, the cost of operating, maintaining, and improving the marina must be covered by the income generated by the marina.* The Port cannot receive any subsidies or funds from the City of Bellingham for the operation, maintenance, and improvement of the marina.* The city prefers to spend its tax and fee income on schools, water, roads, police, fire dept., etc.

The cost of operating, maintaining, and improving a marina is going up all the time.* The only way the Port can continue to provide the facilities that boat owners need or demand is to increase the marina's income.

So on the one hand, you have the desire of the boat owners for the lowest possible moorage fees.* On the other hand, you have the city's desire to make the people who use the marina pay for the marina so the city's budget can be used for the services everyone in the city needs, not just boaters.

Another example of an issue being a bit more complicated than it might appear from just one perspective.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 14th of January 2011 12:15:59 PM
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:41 PM   #39
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

But it's still a public service and just rates and fairness should prevail. But if public services were fair single people and childless couples wouldn't be required to pay for schools.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:44 PM   #40
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RE: Need Help with Windlass Application

Quote:
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But it's still a public service and just rates and fairness should prevail.
I suspect the Port of Bellingham feels their moorage rates are fair for what they are supposed to accomplish, which is cover their share of the operating and maintenance costs of the marina.* I assume the marina also gets income from the rental of buildng space to all the businesses that are located on the marina property.
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