Is my chain undersized?

[dacap06]

Interesting that everybody here seems to be recommending HT chain. When I inquired to someone at Miami Cordage about HT chain, he said he "wouldn't touch that stuff with a 10 ft pole". And didn't want to give a reason.

I tend to be suspicious of people who make recommendations and won't tell you why. It makes me think either (1) they are hiding something (for instance, does Miami Cordage carry 5/16" G4 chain?), or else they're passing on hearsay and don't really know the answer but are too embarrassed to admit it. Just sayin.

 

[HopCar]

You already have 150 feet of good chain. That is plenty for Florida and the Bahamas. If you want some more length you could just splice some rope on the end. Just throwing it out there as an option.

 

[backinblue]

FYI, I purchased my most recent rode from Miami Cordage and am very happy with them. Great service and was one of the only places that I could find that could source the specific chain I wanted as well as the fact that they make and splice their own rope in-house. Also, reasonable price and fast delivery.

 

[psneeld]

Sometimes they just assume most boaters will believe what they say as most boaters are clueless...so why waste their breath unless pressed for it.

 

[HopCar]

FYI, I purchased my most recent rode from Miami Cordage and am very happy with them. Great service and was one of the only places that I could find that could source the specific chain I wanted as well as the fact that they make and splice their own rope in-house. Also, reasonable price and fast delivery.

Miami Cordage is a great company. The only thing is their house made three strand nylon is not pre shrunk. For three strand nylon I’d stick to one of the big names like Sampson or New England.

I used them when ever I needed special length spliced braided line.

 

[dacap06]

I also notice that most commenters are recommending HT to save weight. And nobody thinks I would want to step up to 3/8 chain FOR the weight. Wouldn't heavier chain be beneficial for holding? Seems unnecessary to worry about carrying an extra 75-100bs on a boat this size.

I bought a bucket of 5/16" G4 anchor chain from Defender on my boat. It weighs 100 lb for 90 feet. Therefore your 200 feet of 3/16" G4 will weigh about 220 lb.

I also bought a 100 lb Defender bucket of 3/8" anchor chain for another purpose. It has 60 ft. Therefore, your 200 feet will weigh about 330 lb.

As do many others, I think a good snubber with 3/16 G4 and your beast of an anchor will work fine together in every situation a sane man would anchor. It would certainly does not include hurricanes (even Cat 1, due to duration) but does include the worst of summer thunderstorms, which can generate winds gusts up to 100 mph as seen recently in a line that crossed the NE and the mid-Atlantic. No guarantees in a Haboob, though, but they're awfully rare here in the US. I can only remember 2 - one in 2012 and one this year.

Oh, one final thing -- if you upgrade to 3/8" chain, there's more than just getting a different capstan/gypsy. Your windlass needs to be able to haul up almost all the weight of your chain (e.g. from a very deep anchorage) plus the weight of your anchor. Make sure your capstan is rated for 400+ lb.

 

[jflongwell]

Actual testing in Australia

One thing to bear in mind with hi test chain is once it gets regalvanised, its no longer hi test.

Testing G70 demonstrated little tensile change, but there were hydrogen enrollment concerns. Baking @ 375F within 3 hours for 6 hours is a standard for preventing this.

 

[Darlin]

Chain

I recommend you purchase 200ft of new chain 5/16 and new gypsy head to fit so you know what you have and it's condition. Get a spare storm anchor with 15 ft of chain and 200ft of rode. This way all issues are resolved. You will have a good chain and anchor combo for 95% of your needs and a storm anchor for the big blow. Be sure to use a bridle for each. This will help distribute the strain in heavy wind.

 

[rgano]

That's if your boat is 15 feet square in the front, mine is pointed at the bow and rounded topsides....that changes things significantly.

I have found most internet guesses wildly inaccurate for calculating load forces on a boat.

What about when it yaws all over the place in windy conditions like most trawlers do?

 

[Group9]

In my book, the working load of 5/16 g43 is plenty when you consider the boat. The anchor may be able to hold more, but it would be very hard to get that boat to put 3900 lbs of load on the chain, especially with a good snubber.

I think so, too.

We have a similar set up on our boat (42 feet/40,000 lbs). 250 feet of 5/16 g43 and an 85 pound Mantus. If I thought I needed 3/8, I would have bought that, and changed the gypsy out, instead. I don't.

I grew up on a farm and saw real loads on chains, and we never broke one.

 

[Bryant]

Anchor chain

Marine Trader 44. I live on the hook, so first thing I did was buy a big anchor (85lb Mantus). Boat came with 5/16 chain. Half the chain was rusted junk. I have about 75-100ft that is good, which has been enough because I'm in South Florida and most anchorages are 10ft or less. However I would feel better having at least 150ft (if not 200).

If I buy new chain, the debate is 5/16 bbb vs. spend $400 on new gypsy and upgrade to 3/8 bbb.

If I was a weekend warrior or marina guy, sticking with 5/16 would be a no brainer. But what are your opinions considering my situation?

First of all, the best and cheapest insurance you can buy for your boat is ground tackle. That includes your anchor, chain, gypsy, bollard, windless and bridle. This goes triple for people who live on the hook. Your anchor choice is very good. I have a 45lb Mantus and it's never failed to set and never dragged.
What a lot of people don't realize is that a great deal of your holding power is the weight of the chain between the shank of your anchor and where it begins to lead up to your boat. In normal Florida conditions, in 10ft of water, if you have 60 feet of chain laying on the ocean floor and a well set anchor, you will be fine. Add a good quality bridle to that and you aren't going anywhere. Mantus also makes very good quality bridles. I have one. In my opinion, 5/16 is fine. That's what I have, but I don't live on the hook. Upgrading to larger and heavier tackle is not a bad decision though and when you consider what that particular bit of equipment does for you and your boat, it's a pretty cheap one time investment when you consider the annual cost of your insurance.

 

[CarlF]

For someone anchoring "full time" in a heavy boat, why economize on the anchoring system? The additional weight on the bow is insignificant. Defender will sell you 200ft of 3/8 G4 as a "half drum" for $712. The 5/16" G4 half drum is 275ft and costs $731. 200ft of 5/16" by the foot is $608 - the difference less than a slip for one night at most marinas.

But I'm I guy who anchors a 55ft 52,000lb boat with 1/2" HT

That's because the builder (Shannon) thought 3/8" HT was on the skinny side for 55ft. But then it turned out that 7/16" HT is very hard to source. So they went to 1/2" and I've never woken up at 3AM worrying about the chain...

This is also likely the last chain he'll buy for the boat assuming he flips ends in about 5 years.

But in the OP's situation, I'd understand if the cost of the new chain wheel tipped the balance. And 5/16HT is a lot better than BBB

 

[psneeld]

What about when it yaws all over the place in windy conditions like most trawlers do?

Those calculations are based on a static resistance, perpendicular to the wind.


Who knows at any given moment what area and drag is....but I will bet it's less than flat, frontal, static area trying to be used.


Again...theory....I just know from my experience anchoring.... forces in less than 40 knots of wind are no where's near what it takes to deform 5/15 BBB chain. Maybe work an anchor loose, but not do anything to the chain. Having little experience with sustained winds above 40 at anchor, I will defer to those with practical experience.


Wave action and shock loading is different...all bets off there....


That's why I will chance a narrow creek with little fetch though not much swing over an open anchorage where waves can build.


For those that say big deal on bigger tackle...well that depends. My boat struggles with a 60 pound Manson and 200' of 5/16 BBB. There is no more room and I am glad I got rid of the 3/8 chain and traded chain for more anchor. There's just no room and the bow is way too heavy as it is. Not all of us are dumb and thought this out for a long time. I believe in not NEEDING heavy tackle and avoid those conditions like a pandemic....I think others do too. But I know the majority feels that squalls are the same as hurricanes and that when anchoring you should be prepared for the worst.

 

[jrhodes777]

I use 5/16" HT on a 46 Grand Banks with a 77# Spade anchor and a 3/8" Mantus swivel and Mantus snubber. Usually you try to match all your component working load. In your case your anchor will handle almost all weather conditions. Nothing wrong with that! Good news is you selected a spade style anchor with resets quickly. Failure to reset during a wind shift or failure to properly set the anchor are the primary reasons for anchor drags. If you would like to more closely match all your ground tackle to your anchor you need to use 3/8" HT with matching working load swivel and snubber. You should be fine with 5/16" HT chain but if 3/8" HT with matching hardware give you peace of mind it is well worth it!

 

[psneeld]

My experience says if you are seriously testing 5/16 gear or more, the chances of you having peace of mind is pretty low unless you are a really relaxed person.

For the average sized vessel here...say to 45 foot production types.

 

[Capt Dan]

That's plenty of anchor. You might want to review your whole Windlass situation.

 

[ERTF]

It seems alot of respondents missed my post at top of page #2:

I had wrongly assumed the chain/gypsy was 5/16 BBB. I later found 5/16 HT stamped on the gypsy. And then looked closer at the chain and found out the previous owner put proof chain on it. So thats why the windlass jams.

So that makes it a simple decision. I'm getting 200ft 5/16 HT (USA made) from Miami Cordage. Done deal.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[Ventana]

It seems alot of respondents missed my post at top of page #2:

I had wrongly assumed the chain/gypsy was 5/16 BBB. I later found 5/16 HT stamped on the gypsy. And then looked closer at the chain and found out the previous owner put proof chain on it. So thats why the windlass jams.

So that makes it a simple decision. I'm getting 200ft 5/16 HT (USA made) from Miami Cordage. Done deal.

Thanks for the responses.

This is a thread about anchoring. Folks will blather on for several more pages after your problem has been solved. You pretty much just have to hope they get distracted by something else and forget about your post.

 

[foggysail]

better yet, take the wildcat off and take it with you when you shop.

At seattle chain, they used to insist that the wildcat needs to be brought in to purchase chain. They made sure 10' of chain would feed through the wildcat without jamming. There are no returns of cut chain.

I have 400' of 5/16" ht chain with a 66# genuine bruce and a tigress 1200.

Great suggestion

 

[foreverunderway]

Anchor tackle is not about the weight of the anchor and the size of the chain, but rather about matching all the parts of the system together.
None of us will ever have chain strong enough to hold the boat when the chain is direct from the anchor to the roller on the boat. It will just never happen.
The catenary in the chain is the major function of the chain and to back that up we use snub lines made of an elastic material such as three strand nylon.
So, you have basically bought a huge anchor you expect to hold the boat, but you do not have the chain to work in company with it. If you had bought a 65# anchor (or so) that would work well with 3/8" BBB chain, but with an 85# anchor you really should be using 1/2" BBB chain. All that is way over kill on your boat but the big anchor with small chain is a mismatch, too.
Since the 1/2" is not going to happen, go ahead and get the 3/8"BBB chain. For heaven's sake, do not let folks talk you into expensive hi test chain as even that will never be strong enough to hold your boat if the chain is straight from the anchor to the boat. Make up a couple of 25' to 30' snub lines with 3/4" three strand nylon, a thimble in an eye splice, shackle, chafe gear (I prefer old [free] fire hose from a fire station) and regular old chain hook, not some fancy, expensive set up from the yachting suppliers.
I have anchored through numerous hurricanes and cyclones over my 5 decades as a professional seafarer and have never lost a boat because my anchor tackle failed.

 

[psneeld]

if ones approach is to be ready for a hurricane...then one approach is possibly best.

If one is a cruiser but hauls or runs from hurricane, the appropriate tackle can look different based on ghat skippers theories and preferences.

One size doesn't fit all. My hurricane rig is different from my day to day setup that works just fine.

 

[markpierce]

Haven't yet experienced yawing on my boat. ... Have three-eights chain, yet it draws taught in the two-to-three knot currents here. ... in the sixties while racing on my father's 28-foot sloop, had a Danforth with a short length of chain the rode remainder was nylon rope. Sometimes opposing tidal currents exceeded boat speed. Needed to limit weight since racing was the objective. Anchor recovery was by hand.

 

[MathiasW]

I know the original poster has solved his issue, which is great. But still, in case somebody finds this useful:

I have worked on a mathematical modelling of the anchor chain and snubber / bridle. In which situations do they work best, or not at all? Nothing is perfect, as always, but understanding this model may help this community to make better choices for anchor gear as well as anchorage site choices.

For instances, it answers the question under what circumstances the chain should be chosen thicker but shorter, or when the opposite might be the smarter choice.

This information can be found here:

https://trimaran-san.de/die-kettenkurve-oder-wie-ein-mathematiker-ankert/

And no worries, it is in English, not in German...

 

[Caphenning]

I bought 5/16 BBB chain for my windlass and 40 ft boat.

I figured that I'll never get up near the working load except maybe in very very high winds.

If I have to ride through a hurricane and I get beyond the working load, and it deforms ...okay but what's the chances of my anchor even holding up to the breaking load of 7600 lb?

If I do survive all that, I'll just replace the chain.

Lol, it happens. Happened to me in hurricane Frances in 04, ended up on CNN. Both anchors let go with a bang at the end of a horsing run in a 130kt+ storm band.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Yes Mark I’m still doing that and old enough to know better.
But w anchors over 20lbs I’m OK w my capstan. Still work though.
Only used my 35lb anchor once. All my anchoring is some kind of test now. I know I’ll not get all the things done that I want to do.

But neither of us have dragged in all these years.
I think you’re 3/8ths chain is overkill though.
And I know what you think of my hand full of chain.
But it’s all good.