Mud Anchors & alum anchors
- Thread starter Nomad Willy
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Bigsalmonfish
Senior Member
With mild amusement I have been enjoying the banter regarding this topic. For many years I had a fantastic Danforth type for my large (65 foot) boat. We cruise extensively throughout Washington and BC. About 10 years ago during a refit this heavy anchor disappeared. Needless to say I was heartbroken that the anchor I had come to know and trust was gone. The yard said to purchase any anchor I desired and that they would pay for it. I researched, called people that had different styles suitable for my vessel. I ending up going with a Fortress FX-85
I was concerned with something this light holding me in the rocky grounds we are often in. Fortunately I found a lot of my concerns to not be. The anchor has performed how it should and I couldn't be happier. The lightweight design makes it easier to clear if it comes up fouled with a log or cable.
In mud I have held easily in current and wind. Even when they are opposing. Often we are the only boat in the group to have a hook down and I have slept comfortably. One weekend we had almost ten boats all good size safely secured.
I was concerned with something this light holding me in the rocky grounds we are often in. Fortunately I found a lot of my concerns to not be. The anchor has performed how it should and I couldn't be happier. The lightweight design makes it easier to clear if it comes up fouled with a log or cable.
In mud I have held easily in current and wind. Even when they are opposing. Often we are the only boat in the group to have a hook down and I have slept comfortably. One weekend we had almost ten boats all good size safely secured.
eyschulman
Guru
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,288
I have owned a fortress and believe it to be a good anchor. For where I boat and the way I boat and anchor it is not my first choice based on my personal experience. Over time I found it to be a excellent secondary anchor to set from my dinghy, Due to its light weight and breakdown ability. I have since replaced the fortress as secondary with a aluminum spade which I have had >10 years experience with as primary and secondary. This is also light and breaks down for easy below deck storage and in my opinion a lot more reliable on setting in different bottoms. For primary anchors I have gone to spade type deep diggers such as manson-spade-and ultra. Based on tests by practical sailor magazine and my experience these are very good all around performers. True that on any single test parameter one anchor may stand out but in the real world all around reliable performance is a big plus. The two faults of the Danforth type including the FX is the difficulty setting and the sudden 180 degree wind shift. Yes the 180 does occur and it did happen to me and there was no reset. I also had a drag situation with this type where a clod of shell and mud made the anchor nonfunctional and that would not be as likely with the spade type diggers. I don't have a particular anchor religion and will use a cqr-bruce or whatnot if I am on a boat so equipped. But given my druthers I would chose a modern spade type digger one or two sizes over manufacturers recommendation.
Capt.Bill11
Guru
None of that makes much sense. Danforths are great storm anchors but lousy day to day anchors. Bruce are great drop and set anchor but drag (which I agree with) so you have to power against them in a blow. And you hope to never need to rely on any anchor in a blow!?
So if I read this correctly, you won't use an anchor that makes a great storm anchor for day to day use but you will use the one that doesn't, but drags in a storm and you have to power up on it to hold. And you can predict thunder storms so accurately that you can always wait them out or have plenty of time to prepare for them. Apparently even at night while you are asleep.
psneeld
Guru
Yes
Yes
Yes
and Yes....that about cover's it.
Hopefully other's will understand... as this is a post and not a book about anchoring. It is to be used with all the other posts to form a personal opinion.
And with my background....I have never been surprised by thunderstorms while anchored...because I don't usually anchor if predicted unless in a really protected area....and even then I'm not "surprised" that a thunderstorm could form. As I said in a previous post, the high, gusty winds in a thunderstorms are a short lived event usually and usually not nearly the test of an anchor as a multi-hour storm.
OP
OP
Nomad Willy
Guru
I have a 1953 Motor Boating magazine that has many interesting adds within. One is for the Danforth anchor. Says"no anchor holds like a Danforth". Jump ahead 60 years and whenever the Fortress is in an anchor test it's #1 for holding power. That's a lot of staying power for a product. For all practical purposes you are right as no anchor is perfect and needs a special religion but several of the new anchors come close enough to use one's primary anchor in all but a hurricane and then I'd want a Fortress. A Danforth ... that was designed in 1938 according to FF. They were right in 1953 "nothing holds like a Danforth.
Bigsal thanks for your input.
Yesterday while walking the floats at Anacortes WA I saw several Super Max anchors on the bows of larger boats. That's about the scoopiest scoop anchor I know of and I rarely see them. I hear they are very good in mud. A TF member had one in the last century and thought it was great. Anybody now have one?
Psneeld,
We've been talking anchors for over six years and haven't "covered it" yet. And I think all other members know the difference between a post and a book. And why would you "forget"a Claw after "dropping" it any more or less than any other anchor?
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Bigsalmonfish
Senior Member
I neglected to include the experience I have had several times in a mud bottom. After several days of having the anchor set, in current and wind I had some extreme difficulty retrieving the anchor. I would bear down with the winch as much as it would take and power the boat to try to break free. My belief is that the when the anchor was working it just kept digging. This has happened several times. I routinely anchor 3:1 as I have all chain and when in a blow will put out as much as I feel the situation warrants.
ranger58sb
Guru
Yes, we have one (I see I didn't make that clear in post #5).
We changed to this one after we came back to the Chesapeake from FL in late 2001, on our previous (lighter, less windage) boat. We brought it from that boat to our current ride and switched to combination rope/chain rode shortly thereafter (to reduce time spent cleaning mud off the chain).
The anchor is a 44-lb pivoting Max-16, and it's one size smaller than recommended for our current boat... but it's never dragged or pulled, never didn't reset. Sometimes I think it didn't even actually turn, just kept holding, in the original orientation. We usually have to work the boat around it to break the anchor loose after a whole day or so.
Looks kinda like the business end of a back-hoe.
-Chris
psneeld
Guru
When I said "cover's it"...I meant my answers to specific questions.
Cover "anchors/anchoring" ???...never gonna happen....the better solution ultimately will be unlimited power and dynamic positioning.
Anchors/anchoring is way too much a personal issue...no one is right or wrong...just varying degrees of it.
The 33# (I think somewhere's near that) Bruce I had on a 37 sportfish never failed me but I never demanded it's performance for other than what it tests out to be. I'll bet if I had one 2-3 sizes larger...I would swear by them based on the drop and forget ability to set, reset and hold...yes they drag...but if way oversize...who knows????
OP
OP
Nomad Willy
Guru
I agree Scott your 33# Bruce is undersized for a 37' boat. It should drag. Perfect for my 30' Willard though.
WAY oversized is just a waste and I suspect that most all dragging w Claws results by anchoring in very to extremely soft bottoms. Where most other anchors would drag too.
And as to being right or wrong one needs to consider that most all of us don't have dragging or other performance problems w the anchors we have ... That's largely why we have them. And most people have the anchor that came w the boat ..... more indication that basically all anchors are performing well. And since people have tried them and they work they feel strongly over time that that experience (it's personnel) justifies their "choice" of anchor and are to some degree offended whey some stranger on TF implies or suggests that they would be smart to dump their "proven" anchor and get some other foreign thing that guru #11 uses.
I think that's why we all (mostly) feel rather strongly about our anchor. Like a fellow soldier in the trenches. He may not be a better shot than the guy a mile away or even the enemy but he's your guy and he's special.
WAY oversized is just a waste and I suspect that most all dragging w Claws results by anchoring in very to extremely soft bottoms. Where most other anchors would drag too.
And as to being right or wrong one needs to consider that most all of us don't have dragging or other performance problems w the anchors we have ... That's largely why we have them. And most people have the anchor that came w the boat ..... more indication that basically all anchors are performing well. And since people have tried them and they work they feel strongly over time that that experience (it's personnel) justifies their "choice" of anchor and are to some degree offended whey some stranger on TF implies or suggests that they would be smart to dump their "proven" anchor and get some other foreign thing that guru #11 uses.
I think that's why we all (mostly) feel rather strongly about our anchor. Like a fellow soldier in the trenches. He may not be a better shot than the guy a mile away or even the enemy but he's your guy and he's special.
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psneeld
Guru
Way oversized is a function of a few things...
Your philosophy of a couple hundred pounds mattering on a 30,000+ pound trawlers or for that matter a whole slew of boats.... doesn't really concern some people.
They know that many other factors have a much larger affect on boat performance, stability, ride, etc...etc... than a couple hundred pounds of anchor and chain...which for some may actually be beneficial.
Your philosophy of a couple hundred pounds mattering on a 30,000+ pound trawlers or for that matter a whole slew of boats.... doesn't really concern some people.
They know that many other factors have a much larger affect on boat performance, stability, ride, etc...etc... than a couple hundred pounds of anchor and chain...which for some may actually be beneficial.
Chris - Picts? TY, Art
Capt.Bill11
Guru
I see your point that you always anchor as if there will be thunderstorms or the wind may blow up unexpectedly. And that is the same strategy I follow as well.
But I do choose to put out the anchor I believe will hold me in a storm first time every time I anchor.
In some ways I think a sudden violent thunderstorm is a good test of an anchors holding power. While a longer storm is the best test of the overall anchoring system you might be employing. Because it test things like long term chafe protection and shackle/swivel strength, etc.
ranger58sb
Guru
I don't have on-line storage for pics, so don't seem to have a way to pin any here.
That said, the maker's site has some decent pics: Super MAX Anchors
-Chris
jleonard
Guru
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 5,061
Thunderstorms are so common around here in the summer time that if I didn't anchor if predicted I probably would never leave the dock.
That said I have held during countless number of thunderstorms using my main anchor which is a Danforth. For some reason I always gop back to the Danforth because that is what works the best for me bar none. Maybe that's because I have learned how to use that tool well and I stick with what I know.
Plus there is the "typical" tx storm pattern around here that helps me prepare...
Rain before the wind....no big deal.
Wind before the rain....let out scope after you turn 90 degrees and hunker down. I often start the engine in this case and am prepared to jog against the anchor if necessary.
