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Old 06-14-2014, 12:00 PM   #21
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Cause they are too finicky about setting.....they have great holding for storms but not trustworthy enough to drop and forget.

I think the Bruce is all time great drop and set anchor...it never failed me but would not trust it's holding power in a blow...then again I hope to never need an anchor in a good blow. Thunderstorms I can wait out or power against...even those are predictable enough to take other precautions if necessary.

Past that..I have no favorites amongst the newer anchors...but I clearly doubt undeniable superiority amongst them...

....and in any given situation ...any anchor can be superior for that set of conditions...but like I said...my money is on the drop and forget crowd as I'm single engine and not a long term anchorer.
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:14 PM   #22
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PS: “Minds-Eye” suggestion to FX manufacturer - As it seems that 45 degree angle of decent would be the most efficient “digger” for anchor flukes, and due to line/chain somewhat upward pulling pressure (dependent on scope) the shank will not be completely parallel with bottom surface. Let’s say shank will average 10 to 15 degree upward slant. Therefore it seems it would be great if FX anchors had the 45 degree opportunity, but also had a 55 degree opportunity too. That way the digging flukes of FX could remain a more constant 45 degrees to bottom surface. Just thinking out loud; I’ve spent many times swimming on the bottom watching Danforth anchors in action under different wind and current and scope conditions!
Art, thanks for your input. While Fortress holds a USA patent on the adjustable 32°/45° shank/fluke angle, it is no certainly secret among large anchor manufacturers such as Vryhof (offshore industries) and the US Navy that widening this angle in soft mud will dramatically increase an anchor's holding power.

However, the Fortress will not set at the 45° angle in a harder soil, as it will have difficulty penetrating the bottom at this angle and the 32° setting must be used.

Please find below a section about this from Vryhof's "Anchoring Manual" with more information.

Regards,
Brian
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Old 06-14-2014, 05:32 PM   #23
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Psneeld, I appreciate your input as well. Here's a an interesting story told about the FX-23 anchor model that has been previously mentioned in this thread:

From: XXXXX@sailmail.com
Date: 06 Apr 2004 23:30:00 -0000
To: brian@fortressanchors.com
Subject: Testimonial

TESTIMONIAL - FORTRESS ANCHOR

I was sailing into Conch Cut leading into Georgetown, Exumas in the Bahamas. Just as I was passing over the reef bar, I switched off my autopilot to hand steer over the bar and into the deeper channel when I heard a "pop" and my wheel steering spun freely. I had the full Genoa out, and without rudder steering, the bow fell off heading straight for the nearby island of Channel Cay. I immediately diagnosed the problem of a failed steering cable and released the jib sheet and cut the motor.

In my horror, I realized that my boat, an Irwin 37 foot ketch, my only home, was completely out-of-control and headed for the rocks in just seconds. As a matter of routine I always keep at least one anchor ready to go, but in 30 years of sailing experience I had yet to do an emergency anchor deployment.

I raced forward, terrified as the island cliff was rising before me, and immediately released my Fortress FX-23 with 50 feet of new stainless steel chain and about ten feet of 5/8" nylon rode that was already secured to a cleat.

As the chain was rapidly running out I said a quick prayer that the anchor would bite first time, there would be no time for a re-set before the impending shipwreck disaster! My heart was pounding! I gripped the bow pulpit and braced, watching the rapidly approaching cliff which was now a mere 100 feet away, as the chain ran out.

Suddenly all 22,000 pounds of my sailboat came to a stop and executed a 180 degree turn in 2 seconds. We were now safely at anchor in 15 feet of water in a 3-4 swell with the stern of my boat JUST 30 FEET FROM THE CLIFF!

The Fortress anchor had saved my life and my boat!

Several passing boats radioed and offered assistance. After letting my heart rate come back down to normal range. I was able to motor up and retrieve the somewhat bent anchor, and used the autopilot (which attaches directly to the rudder quadrant) to "fly by wire" to a safe anchorage in Elizabeth Harbor, Georgetown.

I have returned this beloved anchor to Fortress in Ft Lauderdale and they have replaced it with no hassle.

Sincerely,
Capt Joe Greno -
s/v SAGA Georgetown, Bahamas
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:36 PM   #24
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for every praise story I have a dozen..."never again" stories of danforths and fortresses...

keep the sales pitch for boat shows...you're dealing with a different crowd for the most part here....
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Old 06-14-2014, 06:58 PM   #25
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I fail to see how posting a story from a Fortress owner with "real world" successful experience with our product in a very difficult emergency situation is a "sales pitch."

Aren't those "real world" types of anchoring events what post readers are most interested in, whether in Trawler Forum or in other forums.....and more pertinent to many readers than just anchor holding power test results?

Further still, we have been manufacturing our anchors in Fort Lauderdale, Florida since 1987, and have sold somewhere near 500k anchors during that time frame. Its hard to comprehend how we (or any company) with such a low satisfaction rate of 1 in 12 could stay in business for that long.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:19 PM   #26
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I fail to see how posting a story from a Fortress owner with "real world" successful experience with our product in a very difficult emergency situation is a "sales pitch."

Aren't those "real world" types of anchoring events what post readers are most interested in, whether in Trawler Forum or in other forums, versus anchor holding power tests?

Further still, we have been manufacturing our anchors in Fort Lauderdale, Florida since 1987, and have sold somewhere near 500k anchors during that time frame. Its hard to comprehend how we (or any company) with such a low satisfaction rate of 1 in 12 could stay in business for that long.
Again underestimating the intelligence and experience of some of the posters here....

I had a guy in my captains class who swore at me for my down play of Danforth type anchors. A year later he called me when his FORTRESS failed to set when his engine quit and he drug over a 1/2 mile, through a busy bridge in a good current and was scared to death he would severely damage his boat.

He said it took him exactly ONE SECOND to pitch that POS on the dock and put it up for sale when he got home.

OK your turn...don't worry I have plenty to match your success stories...and then some.

Sure they work some of the time...so do all anchors.

Now ....ask every experienced cruiser here to raise their hand that a Fortress is their primary go to anchor.

I'll buy one from you if you even get 1/2 the registered members here to say their is a Fortress..

I was active duty USCG when the "Fortress" made the big splash with the government...but like many government contracts the truth in advertising was severely twisted. Sure they were popular on many of the smaller vessels...great "holding power" on paper that convinced true bureaucrats and on boats with no windlasses...who wanted to lug a 100 pound anchor plus chain up???? Aluminum became real popular with a crowd that hardly ever anchored, always has a live watch and didn't want to hump old iron over the side...wow...big endorsement...till you talked to the old time skippers that DID anchor a lot.

Please keep the advertising where it belongs...some see right through it...the tips on how to use Fortress anchors ...or any anchor are most welcome.

To be fair...I think Fortress anchors are great and may get one for my boat...but like any anchor...I will not endorse it blindly. I think they have their niche and every cruising boat maybe should have one...but don't try to tell me they are any more of a miracle than any other anchor.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:58 PM   #27
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Gentlemen

This should not become an anchor-style, brand name, country of manufacture or good story/bad story pissen match! It can however be a group of experienced and intelligent boaters discussing available style, size and material-weight anchors used for accomplishing many different types of anchoring needs.

My use of the next anchor I purchase has to do with the following:

1. Stern anchor 99% of the time

2. Light weight as possible

3. Steep fluke angle off the shank and sharp fluke entry portions for easily digging deep into silted mud

4. Broad palms capable if keeping top end of anchor on surface so it best as possible does not sink into mud and reduce the 45 degree angle of flukes to bottom surface

5. Capability of hanging flat off a “rail mount anchor hanger” ... like a Danforth can be hung

So far FX-23 leads my list to accomplish these 5 needs. Time will tell what new anchor I purchase... during further research. Heck!. I may even keep using mu 30 + lb Danforth as back anchor for a while until I’m satisfied I have located the best replacement.

Happy Anchoring Daze! – Cheers!! Art
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:05 PM   #28
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Gentlemen

This should not become an anchor-style, brand name, country of manufacture or good story/bad story pissen match! It can however be a group of experienced and intelligent boaters discussing available style, size and material-weight anchors used for accomplishing many different types of anchoring needs.

My use of the next anchor I purchase has to do with the following:

1. Stern anchor 99% of the time

2. Light weight as possible

3. Steep fluke angle off the shank and sharp fluke entry portions for easily digging deep into silted mud

4. Broad palms capable if keeping top end of anchor on surface so it best as possible does not sink into mud and reduce the 45 degree angle of flukes to bottom surface

5. Capability of hanging flat off a “rail mount anchor hanger” ... like a Danforth can be hung

So far FX-23 leads my list to accomplish these 5 needs. Time will tell what new anchor I purchase... during further research. Heck!. I may even keep using mu 30 + lb Danforth as back anchor for a while until I’m satisfied I have located the best replacement.

Happy Anchoring Daze! – Cheers!! Art
Sounds like you need a Fortress....but then again it's not your day to day go to anchor...
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:53 PM   #29
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Psneeld, once again, thanks for your input. I have been with the company for 17 years and during that time I have had contacts with and have spoken to thousands of owners of our product and other anchor brands, both in the USA and in many foreign markets.

Not one of the brands is immune from disgruntled customers, and conversely, they all have their fervent supporters as well, without exception. Bottom conditions vary so differently, as does anchoring knowledge and technique, so this is all inevitable.

Cruising boats typically do not have Fortress as a primary, Bruce, CQR and Delta remain the dominant brands there, and they have provided enough reliable performance in variable bottoms over several decades to earn that position. While it is being reported that the new generation anchors might perform better in harder soils, I think the jury is still out on how well they perform in soft mud and in more difficult bottoms like grass, weeds, and rocks.

During our recent Chesapeake Bay tests, the CQR did hold better in the soft mud versus the new generation models, as it clearly had a better trajectory and higher effective fluke angle when it was being pulled into this bottom.

I think that our niche in the cruisers market is either as stern anchor, or as secondary back up storm anchor.

Regarding the USCG, yes, our anchors are on many of their boats and I talk occasionally with "coasties" when they call in to order parts or a new anchor, and those aboard the 87-ft and 110-ft vessels actually use their Fortress anchors.....even regularly at times.

Concerning that Fortress is not a "miracle" anchor, I guess that depends on the definition. An anchor which has consistently held 250-350x its weight in holding power and real world tests qualifies at least to some extent for that adjective, I think.

I have yet to see a pleasure craft anchor of any brand come anywhere close to matching that feat.

And when I recently saw our 10 lb FX-16 anchor hold not just more, but double, many of the anchors that we tested in the Chesapeake Bay, which weighed 4.5x more...well, that was very impressive.

So was the performance of the 32 lb FX-55, which held to over 4,400 lbs in this soft mud bottom, which was over 4x the closest heavier steel anchor, and the FX-55 overloaded and tripped the winch aboard the 81-ft research vessel several times in the process.

The crew of the boat were certainly impressed, as they wanted to borrow this anchor for their next charter the following week up to Rhode Island. They also have two genuine Bruce anchors aboard, but had never seen an anchor perform like the FX-55.

Finally, I will take your cue and not "advertise" with posts like this anymore, and I will simply offer advice and let our owners post their own opinions, hopefully some of whom are members of this forum.

All the best,
Brian
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:15 PM   #30
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don't worry...the Fortress sells itself to experienced boaters for what it is.... marketing hype of holding power is only part of the equation and many know that....overkill in one part of a design is what may might consider the issue unless all the other requirements are met...which NO anchor does well in all situations.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:37 PM   #31
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I'm glad we can all kiss and make up!
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:52 PM   #32
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With mild amusement I have been enjoying the banter regarding this topic. For many years I had a fantastic Danforth type for my large (65 foot) boat. We cruise extensively throughout Washington and BC. About 10 years ago during a refit this heavy anchor disappeared. Needless to say I was heartbroken that the anchor I had come to know and trust was gone. The yard said to purchase any anchor I desired and that they would pay for it. I researched, called people that had different styles suitable for my vessel. I ending up going with a Fortress FX-85

I was concerned with something this light holding me in the rocky grounds we are often in. Fortunately I found a lot of my concerns to not be. The anchor has performed how it should and I couldn't be happier. The lightweight design makes it easier to clear if it comes up fouled with a log or cable.

In mud I have held easily in current and wind. Even when they are opposing. Often we are the only boat in the group to have a hook down and I have slept comfortably. One weekend we had almost ten boats all good size safely secured.
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Old 06-19-2014, 12:07 AM   #33
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Bigsal... you mention "With mild amusement..." I think some posts were hilarious!

Thank you for firsthand accounting regarding FX Anchor.

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Old 06-19-2014, 01:44 AM   #34
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I have owned a fortress and believe it to be a good anchor. For where I boat and the way I boat and anchor it is not my first choice based on my personal experience. Over time I found it to be a excellent secondary anchor to set from my dinghy, Due to its light weight and breakdown ability. I have since replaced the fortress as secondary with a aluminum spade which I have had >10 years experience with as primary and secondary. This is also light and breaks down for easy below deck storage and in my opinion a lot more reliable on setting in different bottoms. For primary anchors I have gone to spade type deep diggers such as manson-spade-and ultra. Based on tests by practical sailor magazine and my experience these are very good all around performers. True that on any single test parameter one anchor may stand out but in the real world all around reliable performance is a big plus. The two faults of the Danforth type including the FX is the difficulty setting and the sudden 180 degree wind shift. Yes the 180 does occur and it did happen to me and there was no reset. I also had a drag situation with this type where a clod of shell and mud made the anchor nonfunctional and that would not be as likely with the spade type diggers. I don't have a particular anchor religion and will use a cqr-bruce or whatnot if I am on a boat so equipped. But given my druthers I would chose a modern spade type digger one or two sizes over manufacturers recommendation.
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:30 AM   #35
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Cause they are too finicky about setting.....they have great holding for storms but not trustworthy enough to drop and forget.

I think the Bruce is all time great drop and set anchor...it never failed me but would not trust it's holding power in a blow...then again I hope to never need an anchor in a good blow. Thunderstorms I can wait out or power against...even those are predictable enough to take other precautions if necessary.
None of that makes much sense. Danforths are great storm anchors but lousy day to day anchors. Bruce are great drop and set anchor but drag (which I agree with) so you have to power against them in a blow. And you hope to never need to rely on any anchor in a blow!?

So if I read this correctly, you won't use an anchor that makes a great storm anchor for day to day use but you will use the one that doesn't, but drags in a storm and you have to power up on it to hold. And you can predict thunder storms so accurately that you can always wait them out or have plenty of time to prepare for them. Apparently even at night while you are asleep.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:19 AM   #36
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None of that makes much sense. Danforths are great storm anchors but lousy day to day anchors. Bruce are great drop and set anchor but drag (which I agree with) so you have to power against them in a blow. And you hope to never need to rely on any anchor in a blow!?

So if I read this correctly, you won't use an anchor that makes a great storm anchor for day to day use but you will use the one that doesn't, but drags in a storm and you have to power up on it to hold. And you can predict thunder storms so accurately that you can always wait them out or have plenty of time to prepare for them. Apparently even at night while you are asleep.
Yes

Yes

Yes

and Yes....that about cover's it.

Hopefully other's will understand... as this is a post and not a book about anchoring. It is to be used with all the other posts to form a personal opinion.

And with my background....I have never been surprised by thunderstorms while anchored...because I don't usually anchor if predicted unless in a really protected area....and even then I'm not "surprised" that a thunderstorm could form. As I said in a previous post, the high, gusty winds in a thunderstorms are a short lived event usually and usually not nearly the test of an anchor as a multi-hour storm.
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Old 06-19-2014, 10:00 AM   #37
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don't worry...the Fortress sells itself to experienced boaters for what it is.... marketing hype of holding power is only part of the equation and many know that....overkill in one part of a design is what may might consider the issue unless all the other requirements are met...which NO anchor does well in all situations.

I have a 1953 Motor Boating magazine that has many interesting adds within. One is for the Danforth anchor. Says"no anchor holds like a Danforth". Jump ahead 60 years and whenever the Fortress is in an anchor test it's #1 for holding power. That's a lot of staying power for a product. For all practical purposes you are right as no anchor is perfect and needs a special religion but several of the new anchors come close enough to use one's primary anchor in all but a hurricane and then I'd want a Fortress. A Danforth ... that was designed in 1938 according to FF. They were right in 1953 "nothing holds like a Danforth.

Bigsal thanks for your input.

Yesterday while walking the floats at Anacortes WA I saw several Super Max anchors on the bows of larger boats. That's about the scoopiest scoop anchor I know of and I rarely see them. I hear they are very good in mud. A TF member had one in the last century and thought it was great. Anybody now have one?

Psneeld,
We've been talking anchors for over six years and haven't "covered it" yet. And I think all other members know the difference between a post and a book. And why would you "forget"a Claw after "dropping" it any more or less than any other anchor?
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Old 06-19-2014, 10:23 AM   #38
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I neglected to include the experience I have had several times in a mud bottom. After several days of having the anchor set, in current and wind I had some extreme difficulty retrieving the anchor. I would bear down with the winch as much as it would take and power the boat to try to break free. My belief is that the when the anchor was working it just kept digging. This has happened several times. I routinely anchor 3:1 as I have all chain and when in a blow will put out as much as I feel the situation warrants.
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Old 06-19-2014, 11:22 AM   #39
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Yesterday while walking the floats at Anacortes WA I saw several Super Max anchors on the bows of larger boats. That's about the scoopiest scoop anchor I know of and I rarely see them. I hear they are very good in mud. A TF member had one in the last century and thought it was great. Anybody now have one?

Yes, we have one (I see I didn't make that clear in post #5).

We changed to this one after we came back to the Chesapeake from FL in late 2001, on our previous (lighter, less windage) boat. We brought it from that boat to our current ride and switched to combination rope/chain rode shortly thereafter (to reduce time spent cleaning mud off the chain).

The anchor is a 44-lb pivoting Max-16, and it's one size smaller than recommended for our current boat... but it's never dragged or pulled, never didn't reset. Sometimes I think it didn't even actually turn, just kept holding, in the original orientation. We usually have to work the boat around it to break the anchor loose after a whole day or so.

Looks kinda like the business end of a back-hoe.

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Old 06-19-2014, 11:34 AM   #40
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I have a 1953 Motor Boating magazine that has many interesting adds within. One is for the Danforth anchor. Says"no anchor holds like a Danforth". Jump ahead 60 years and whenever the Fortress is in an anchor test it's #1 for holding power. That's a lot of staying power for a product. For all practical purposes you are right as no anchor is perfect and needs a special religion but several of the new anchors come close enough to use one's primary anchor in all but a hurricane and then I'd want a Fortress. A Danforth ... that was designed in 1938 according to FF. They were right in 1953 "nothing holds like a Danforth.

Bigsal thanks for your input.

Yesterday while walking the floats at Anacortes WA I saw several Super Max anchors on the bows of larger boats. That's about the scoopiest scoop anchor I know of and I rarely see them. I hear they are very good in mud. A TF member had one in the last century and thought it was great. Anybody now have one?

Psneeld,
We've been talking anchors for over six years and haven't "covered it" yet. And I think all other members know the difference between a post and a book. And why would you "forget"a Claw after "dropping" it any more or less than any other anchor?
When I said "cover's it"...I meant my answers to specific questions.

Cover "anchors/anchoring" ???...never gonna happen....the better solution ultimately will be unlimited power and dynamic positioning.

Anchors/anchoring is way too much a personal issue...no one is right or wrong...just varying degrees of it.

The 33# (I think somewhere's near that) Bruce I had on a 37 sportfish never failed me but I never demanded it's performance for other than what it tests out to be. I'll bet if I had one 2-3 sizes larger...I would swear by them based on the drop and forget ability to set, reset and hold...yes they drag...but if way oversize...who knows????
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