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Old 09-17-2015, 01:22 AM   #21
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I think the title is "The Complete Book of Anchoring".
Could it be "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" by Earl R Hinz ( American,not French). At p.115, Revised Second Edition, he deals with what he calls "Chain Riding Stoppers". P117 depicts a range of chain attachment devices, of which the "common grab hook" ( bearclaw) is described as "not recommended" as it "weakens the chain to about 80% of normal strength because of the eccentric grasp". He shows other commercially available attachment plates.
My copy came from Amazon. If we confine discussion to the relevant part, the thread should be safe enough.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:57 AM   #22
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It's an excellent book. We bought a copy not long after acquiring our PNW cabin cruiser and learned a lot, like the fact we had our swivel on backwards.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:44 AM   #23
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sounds like that could lead to a serious hijacking of the snubber question and get us all back into anchoring!
Let's let sleeping dogs lie....
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And to you.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:46 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Could it be "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" by Earl R Hinz ( American,not French). At p.115, Revised Second Edition, he deals with what he calls "Chain Riding Stoppers". P117 depicts a range of chain attachment devices, of which the "common grab hook" ( bearclaw) is described as "not recommended" as it "weakens the chain to about 80% of normal strength because of the eccentric grasp". He shows other commercially available attachment plates.
My copy came from Amazon. If we confine discussion to the relevant part, the thread should be safe enough.
No it's not Hinz's book. I'm fairly certain of that.

Im pretty sure it's this book http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-A.../dp/0071475087
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Old 09-17-2015, 09:33 AM   #25
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Anchor size and weight probably has as much or more to do with that than the size of the boat alone. Once you reach the larger size and weight anchors it's not really practical to have a combination line and change rode.
Ok, but;
Aren't anchor size and weight mostly determined by boat size and weight?
So, put another way then, is there generally an anchor size/weight when you would not use a combination?
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:36 AM   #26
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I'd say once you get close to and over a 100 lb anchor your going to be using all chain. Or perhaps cable.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:49 AM   #27
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I think three strand nylon rode provides considerable streach for shock load reduction but braided line not so much.


It does not seem to take extreme winds to remove the catenary from chain, at least as far as I could tell from on deck.


I often thought about setting up a spare anchor on a big shackle to slide down the chain to act as a kettle With a small line for retrieval.Never tried it though just relied on the my anchoring adage, when in doubt let it out. More chain gives more catenary..
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:18 AM   #28
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Ok, but;
Aren't anchor size and weight mostly determined by boat size and weight?
So, put another way then, is there generally an anchor size/weight when you would not use a combination?

I'd say it's broader than that. Boat size (length, volume), and weight (displacement) are biggies, but there's also windage (profile), normal anchoring areas (typical weather, wind, etc.), normal holding grounds (sand, rock, mud, grass, whatever), and anchor design (which in turn influences anchor weight, windlass sizing, etc.). I've probably forgotten to include something or other, but it's all one big system of systems.

And then... yes, there comes a time when all that together influences rode make-up... but the actual "where" is most likely an "it depends" -- with obviously huge boats using all chain and/or cable, and obviously small boat being fine with all (or mostly all) rope... and a whole bunch of boats in the middle somewhere.

I can add that I'd use all chain if it weren't for the mud here; takes me too long as it is to wash all the mud out of the links... so we only use about 25' of chain leading the rode. That's not particularly a factor of boat weight/size (and all that other stuff) in our case; it was easy enough to properly size our combo rode.

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Old 09-17-2015, 11:40 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Hawgwash View Post
Ok, but;
Aren't anchor size and weight mostly determined by boat size and weight?
So, put another way then, is there generally an anchor size/weight when you would not use a combination?
I do not think there is a firm point where all chain becomes more practical.

The issue is the windlass more than anything.

Small boat windlass's seem to work with combo rodes very well. All my previous boats had a combo rode and the windlass was able to work with the line, the transition, and then the chain.

Above a certain pulling capability you run into a situation where the windlass manufacturers quit offering a windlass gypsy that will work effectivly with both line and chain. Their solution is to add a capstan to the windlass either on the side or the top for the line, and a regular gypsy for the chain.

If you anchor allot, especially at any depth you will find that using a capstan is not all that much fun. That is what drove my decision to go to an all chain rode this spring.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:49 AM   #30
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Is there a boat size/weight where you would no longer use a combination chain, rope rode?
Just my opinion, so it's only worth what you paid for it, is that if a boats big enough to have a windlass, it gets chain.

Therefore, dinghy's, tenders, speedboats etc, with no windlass, loose anchor with short chain and coiled rode in locker.

Anything larger, with fixed windlass and permanent anchor chock/mount/storage gets chain.

And let the flaming begin, lol.
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Old 09-17-2015, 11:54 AM   #31
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I do not think there is a firm point where all chain becomes more practical.
I'm not looking for a finite answer, as much as wondering if a 42-46 GB on the BC coast can get away with a combo rode.

I've never had a situation where I could no retrieve all the tackle but I know people who have. It's usually been in an old booming ground or something similar. In reality, they should have known better, but...

There is a power cable strung across a local mooching channel where every few years they go down and collect a hundred or more anchors.

Edited to elaborate a bit...

"I've never had a situation where I could no retrieve all the tackle but..."
Once, I managed to put a pretty good bend in one fluke of a Danforth and twice, had to send a line down with a shackle big enough to slide over the shank so the anchor could be pulled out from the opposite direction.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:44 PM   #32
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I'm not looking for a finite answer, as much as wondering if a 42-46 GB on the BC coast can get away with a combo rode.


Would think maybe so. As I said, we use a combo rode here, and our weight/length/windage is about in that same vicinity. I'd first want to learn about bottom surfaces and typical surface winds out there; rocks would cause me to lean further toward more chain, as would typically high winds in most likely anchorages. Still maybe not all chain. Depends.

But then if there's no big-time mud to worry about cleaning off the decks, not sure there's much advantage to a combo, either, assuming appropriate windlass.

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Old 09-17-2015, 02:47 PM   #33
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Just my opinion, so it's only worth what you paid for it, is that if a boats big enough to have a windlass, it gets chain.

Anything larger, with fixed windlass and permanent anchor chock/mount/storage gets chain.

Try anchoring here in the mud, see how much time/fun it is to clean the links and you bring the anchor back aboard.



All chain is good, IMO, except when it's a pain in the a$$.

-Chris
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:57 PM   #34
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One of the first things I invested in when I bought my boat was installing a high pressure raw water and freshwater washdown outlets on the bow of the boat. When your anchor sets down a couple or three or four feet and you've been at anchor for a few days in somewhat benign conditions, that sticky mud is indeed a chore to get rid of. But that chain sure is nice at making at-anchor motions much gentler. We've lain solely to the chain a few times in clocking currents or gentle wind shifts.
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Old 09-17-2015, 03:03 PM   #35
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One of the first things I invested in when I bought my boat was installing a high pressure raw water and freshwater washdown outlets on the bow of the boat.

Yep, when we added the windlass we added the raw water washdown. Not huge pressure, but not bad. Still takes me about 25 minutes to clean the mud out of 25' of chain. The anchor itself is usually a snap.

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Old 09-17-2015, 03:05 PM   #36
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Mud on a chain is a PITA for sure. We anchored once heading south where it took about 30 minutes to clean 100 feet of muddy chain.

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Old 09-17-2015, 07:41 PM   #37
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Seems Dawdler was right, the thread anchor is not holding.
Our powerful salt water washdown pump is 240v, powered off the genset,I used to curse having to start the genny just to clean chain and anchor, but the genny needs to be started regularly, so it`s no bad thing.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:54 PM   #38
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Seems Dawdler was right, the thread anchor is not holding.
Yeah, well, don't git your hackles up too much, the thread died 4 months ago and needed some new life.
Maybe.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:56 PM   #39
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Try anchoring here in the mud, see how much time/fun it is to clean the links and you bring the anchor back aboard.



All chain is good, IMO, except when it's a pain in the a$$.

-Chris
Yes, I've lived and sailed the Chesapeake for years, and the answer stays the same, all you need is an anchor wash system. In fact for mud I prefer chain, it washes off cleaner and easier than rope, the smell doesn't linger as long. Use the sea water wash when raising then a quick fresh water rinse once it's in the locker.
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Old 09-18-2015, 08:22 AM   #40
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Yes, I've lived and sailed the Chesapeake for years, and the answer stays the same, all you need is an anchor wash system. In fact for mud I prefer chain, it washes off cleaner and easier than rope, the smell doesn't linger as long. Use the sea water wash when raising then a quick fresh water rinse once it's in the locker.

Yep, got a raw water washdown, and I can rinse it all with fresh afterwards at the dock. The retrieval process is still a pain in the a$$.

-Chris
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