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Old 06-02-2012, 02:49 AM   #21
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In talking to commercial fishermen about taking a boat up the Inside Passage they have told me that if the weather cooperates--- which it almost never does---- and you run only in the daytime but all day every day at 8 knots you can get from Bellingham to Ketchikan in ten days. Of course the commercial fishermen tend to run 24 hours a day so this cuts the time down considerably.

However for a recreational trip with lots of stops along the way to see and visit stuff it seems best to allow at least three months for the round trip and more is better. Friiends of ours took their 30 foot Newport sloop (a six-knot boat under power) up to Juneau and back a few years ago. They're retired and they took five months for the trip. That seemed really ideal as they were able to do all sorts of interesting things along the way.

When my wife and I go up in the Beaver it's a day's journey. We leave about 8:00am and make fuel stops in Nanaimo and then Port McNeil (used to be Sullivan Bay and then it was Minstral Island) and then go the rest of the way nonstop except for a lunch break at the Butedale Cannery, or what's left of it.

From Lake Washington where the plane is to Ketchikan is about 650 miles. At 110 mph plus customs, fuel, and lunch stops plus low weather-dodging (clouds, fog, rain) it's pretty much an all day deal to fly up there.

Abssolutely spectacular flight, though, even in dicey weather. We've never gotten tired of it even though we could probably fly the route in our sleep. We fly the same route all the boats take.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:10 AM   #22
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anchor controversy

Hi Marin
Gee Marin you certainly are a pain in my dearie air but I suppose you do have a point, what a pity I didn’t manage to land you a Super Sarca before you took possession of your mud scoop, every time we make a video there is always some sort of controversy, animations!, Marin what are you asking me for? I would not entertain that idea at all, you can make any design of any product produced with the assistance of animation to do whatever, for developing purposes yes it could be of assistance for preferred design but in the real world, surely Marin you don’t mean that.

Should my video include more of the Sacra’s orientation? Well in all of the years I have been marketing our anchors the hoop has always been self-explanatory and needed no further explanation.

The Sarca unlike other roll bar designs will set most times in a stand up position as you put it, second Marin think about this one, our two most likely competitors are con cave and will always lay on their side until burying sufficient to stand straight WHICH IS ALSO AIDED WITH A PAIR OF SKIDS, further the Sarca is the only convex anchor design worldwide with reverse weight, that is its weight is across the rear by means of a solid bar, (not tip- weight) any forward motion the Sarca will immediately strike with its turned down toe, it then tries to lift the weight across its rear which gives it unprecedented penetration to set in many types of substrate, think about it.

As I have stated many times, our anchors have probably been scrutinized and put through the most rigorous tests of any anchor for S/H/H/Power certification, witnessed by many from the Marine industry, the volume and interest from onlookers of the T.A.T.S. put a lot of emphasis on us to demonstrate to all what we were claiming re our anchor designs, end result all of what we were claiming has now been proven many, many, times and as I have stated all of our anchor designs are certified S/H/H/Power.

I have a closet full of videos, totally uncut showing the Sarca rolling over and rapidly setting; I will arrange to have them sent directly to you if you like, then again, why not view the video on you tube by P. Smith (SARCA TESTED) where your concave anchor design came from, that company clearly cooked the demo as the Sarca was pulled on a drier surface at twice the speed of your anchor design, nothing to do with my filming there Marin, opposition , no favors, clearly the orientation and then super-fast penetration by the Sarca is obviously different than concave in their film, Please note, that Sarca was the old design ,not Super Sarca.

One thing I totally agree with you is this Marin, minimum rope scope of three to one in calm waters, four to one low tide or light windy conditions and no less than five to one when anchoring overnight, preferably for me I like 7 to one.

Any way it looks like Joe Smith from NRC in Seattle is not far away from importing a pellet load of assorted Sarca and Sarca Excel anchors, so you will eventually be able to argue with some one else should they purchase.

Regards Rex.
CEO of Anchor Right Australia.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:54 AM   #23
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Wow, just looked that course up - that's quite a hop. Best of luck and safe voyage, Eric.
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:28 AM   #24
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Amen Rex! I don't have a Rocna, Sarca or XYZ anchor. Nor have I any experience with any of these.
However, I am continually amazed at the attitude some exhibit here in defense of their
ground tackle. I'm sure all of these are very good anchors and we can find supporting documentation to any one of them.
Several of the" anchor nazis" refuse to let go of the fact that other people have had good results with other brands/types. If your anchor roller doesn't have their brand on it then you must be doing it wrong- you'll drag or die !
Rex- I'm sure you will be getting an earful in the not to distant future.
Your marketing seems to be to support your position , but not in your face against other brands. Let the facts speak for themselves. your product seems well made and totally suitable for the use in which it was intended. Your business practice appears to be aggressive but ethical-the way it should be.
In the interest of full disclosure, I have not see all of the marketing on all of these brands. I also don't own any of these brands, nor do I play one on TV.
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:30 AM   #25
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Thanks Marin as I have'nt got much time.

First day out of Ketchikan we may anchor on Duke Is.
In between Prince Rupert and Mlbanke Sound we will be west of the usual Grenville Channel route. Petrel Channel, Principe Channel and Estavan Sound. Then we'll be going east to Fjordland through Meyers passage. Then we will be generally on the usual route except we'll probably go to Shawl Bay and meet w Larry H. Should be in Puget Sound in about 5 weeks ..... or so.

So for one We'll have enough time to go here and there on the way down and see places that we've always passed up before to get to point "B" in a timely manner.

See Ya'all
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Old 06-02-2012, 12:33 PM   #26
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Rex--- Thanks for your reply. Rocna used both animation to explain how their anchor works and live footage to show it actually working. CGI (computer generated imagery) is an oustanding tool to illustrate how something works. We use it constantly at Boeing to make thing more clear to an audience. In fact it is so valuable to us that we have a whole group in our organization that specializes in it with about $1.5 million in hardware and software to do it with. So don't knock CGI an effective way to get one's point across.

I'm not trying to restart a discussion about your anchor. I certainly agree it's a great one although we would never buy one for the reasons I have already described in other discussions. I am simply commenting on the fact that as a marketing tool I think the videos on your site are not doing as effective a job of promoting your product as they coud be.

Were we in the market for an anchor today, and knowing nothing about rollbar anchors as we knew nothing about them seven or eight years ago, based solely on the content, appearance, and organization of your and Rocna's website I would be far more impressed and interested in their product than in yours and would be drawn-- as we were then-- to learn more about their product and regard yours as an "also ran."

This has nothing to do with the relative merits of the products themselves.

A number of years ago I interviewed the CEO of Air Malta for a 737 marketing project.. In explaining his airline's heavy involvement in all manner of projects and businesses promoting Malta he said, "Perception is fifty percent of everything these days. Fifty percent of business, fifty percent of politics, fifty percent of finance, fifty percent of success.".

The only thing inaccurate about his statement today is that today perception is probably seventy percent of everything.

I help our company market and sell commercial jetliners, which are the most complex commercial products made by man today. But the same techniques that work so effectively to market them are equally effective in marketing a bent piece of steel designed to hold a boat in place. It takes good storytelling, clear explanations, and effective visualizations. In that regard Rocna has you beat hands down right now.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:02 PM   #27
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Rex--- Thanks for your reply. Rocna used both animation to explain how their anchor works and live footage to show it actually working. CGI (computer generated imagery) is an oustanding tool to illustrate how something works. We use it constantly at Boeing to make thing more clear to an audience. In fact it is so valuable to us that we have a whole group in our organization that specializes in it with about $1.5 million in hardware and software to do it with. So don't knock CGI an effective way to get one's point across.

I'm not trying to restart a discussion about your anchor. I certainly agree it's a great one although we would never buy one for the reasons I have already described in other discussions. I am simply commenting on the fact that as a marketing tool I think the videos on your site are not doing as effective a job of promoting your product as they coud be.

Were we in the market for an anchor today, and knowing nothing about rollbar anchors as we knew nothing about them seven or eight years ago, based solely on the content, appearance, and organization of your and Rocna's website I would be far more impressed and interested in their product than in yours and would be drawn-- as we were then-- to learn more about their product and regard yours as an "also ran."

This has nothing to do with the relative merits of the products themselves.

A number of years ago I interviewed the CEO of Air Malta for a 737 marketing project.. In explaining his airline's heavy involvement in all manner of projects and businesses promoting Malta he said, "Perception is fifty percent of everything these days. Fifty percent of business, fifty percent of politics, fifty percent of finance, fifty percent of success.".

The only thing inaccurate about his statement today is that today perception is probably seventy percent of everything.

I help our company market and sell commercial jetliners, which are the most complex commercial products made by man today. But the same techniques that work so effectively to market them are equally effective in marketing a bent piece of steel designed to hold a boat in place. It takes good storytelling, clear explanations, and effective visualizations. In that regard Rocna has you beat hands down right now.
dead on...my ex used to say it's not if I was a great guy or not...it was WHAT SHE THOUGHT OF ME that mattered. Obviously by the fixer upper tone of the posts about my boat prove how right she was...
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Old 06-02-2012, 10:25 PM   #28
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Amen Rex! I don't have a Rocna, Sarca or XYZ anchor. Nor have I any experience with any of these.
However, I am continually amazed at the attitude some exhibit here in defense of their
ground tackle.
Right on,you could be forgiven for thinking guys were defending their "wedding tackle' rather than their "ground tackle". It`s like a Ford v GM argument.
I follow this thread (and all the others which raise the same issues) with interest as I`m considering buying a Sarca Supreme.
I`ve no doubt most anchors, even the venerable CQR like mine, do a decent job. The other variables, like correct sizing, scope,operator skill, the bottom,, prevailing conditions,hull shape,windage, even a degree of good or bad luck, all contribute. I doubt any 2 anchoring situations are identical. BruceK
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:54 AM   #29
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Gee, Eric, I bet you never figured to start such spirited discussion about just about every anchor ever designed under the sun with your innocuous thread about modifying the toe of your XYZ.
As for me, I can hardly wait to hear your comments when you can finally lay your hands on a Super -S. Maybe you better email that distributor and get your name down...
It might be waiting for you when you get to where you are going. I'm just sorry one can't be got to you before you leave, to use on the way. I'm confident you would then be confident to merely link all the others you have together when you arrive and turn them into a permanent mooring...thus lightening Willy quite a bit at the same time.
Will you be able to access i/net and keep us posted as you travel - I hope so? It looks a really interesting route, which I have plotted thanks to Marin's description. We expect photos as well of course....no pressure....
But mainly just enjoy a safe trip..
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:31 PM   #30
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Peter, Marin and all,
We're in Ketchikan after bucking the tide all day long.
We will be on our way Tuesday at the earliest. With reasonable weather. May anchor in Pond Bay on the north end of Duke Is and on the next good weather day try to make it all the way to Prince Rupert. Had dinner w Tom and Jan White (nice warm send-off). Beautiful weather today but 20 knots tomorrow ... We,ll be shopping anyway. I,m using the Ketchikan Yacht Club's Wi-fi and my I-pad. Sure glad I got that Navimatics app Marin. Forgot our paper charts. The next leg is in real wild places but I may get wi-fi at Shearwater ..... About two weeks away. I took one anchor home so now I only have 6 on board. I'm egar to try the modified XYZ and the Dreadnought. Owning the Dreadnought is like having a Duesenburg. Sure glad I got that one.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:55 PM   #31
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Peter, Marin and all,
We're in Ketchikan after bucking the tide all day long.
Ketchikan, looking away from the town:

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Old 06-03-2012, 09:47 PM   #32
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Eric-- Glad to hear you're underway. You could always set you're six anchors all the way around your boat in 60 degree increments. That way you'd stay put for sure.

The only annoying thing I've found so far with the Navimatics app is that it doesn't seem to display the names of some bodies of water, like Grenville Channel and Princess Royal Channel that you will soon be traveling down.

Let us know how you're doing when you get wifi or 3G access (if your iPad has 3G). You can start a new thread in the West Coast Cruising section if you like.

PS- Just played around with the Navimatics app and discovered that the names of bodies of water-- XYZ Bay, ABC Channel -- don't appear until you've zoomed in pretty tight. But they are there. I think it would have been better to have the names of at least the larger bays, channels, passes, and straits appear at a wider field of view. But at least they are there, not missing altogether as I had first thought.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:25 AM   #33
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[QUOTE=manyboats;89276]Peter, Marin and all,
We're in Ketchikan after bucking the tide all day long.

Eric
I was hoping to make it to Thorne Bay before you left !!
We are in Prince Rupert today , hoping to have a little repair done here tomorrow and leave for Ketchikan on Tuesday, weather permitting. Always assuming we can find the correct parts in town of course.
We may pass each other in Dixon Entrance.

Fair winds
Bob
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:06 AM   #34
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Damn - I forgot the Dreadnaught....that should keep him in one place quite well.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:21 PM   #35
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Thought of a new thread but what I have seems like a continuation of this.
First anchoring experience on our trip was at Very Inlet over mud. Looked like mellow conditions and I didn't want to use an untried anchor next to a nice big white yacht so I used my new 22lb Claw. Set it w a medium pull. In the middle of the night the tide came in and covered the saddle in the little entrance to the west and waves came in and made me wish we had stabilizers. No wind but lots of rolling. In the morning the other boat left and we pulled anchor. Had a mass of weed around the line so we backed to put a strain on the line to pull it down under the weed ..... Worked fine but we had considerable strain on the rode and I could feel the anchor dragging along the bottom. We were eager to get under way so just pulled it up and went. Again I'm not really sure it dragged but it felt like it. It dragged hard (if it dragged at all) and probably would have held the boat in most conditions. I think any other anchor could have done as well and this comment could perhaps be applied to most anchoring w most anchors. Hmmmmmmmm
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:08 PM   #36
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That's a claw for you. Trust it at your own risk.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:18 PM   #37
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HA HA,

Marin I thought you'd jump on that one.

By your suggestion I'm moving this to West Coast Cruising.

Eric
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:27 PM   #38
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Getting back to the OP here's a little rundown on my anchoring on the run south .... Mostly w the XYZ.

Very Inlet:
Claw. Anchored at 3-1 scope w no wind but at high tide the entrance was covered and some seas from the west (Dixon Entrance)
Billy Bay:
XYZ. Pulled hard (1800rpm) for two minutes in reverse while watching the shore trees and could see no movement. Mud bottom and no wind.
Ire Inlet:
XYZ. Was at short scope in a small spot so I used my 1/2" chain insert plus a 12lb Kellet. Anchor didn't drag but I misjudged the swinging room or position of rocks because at 0200 we hit a rock. Was actually a bit of a jolt and I don't see how it could be. Woke us up and I was afraid we'd gone on a rock and were falling of it high and dry. We were still floating so I went out in my shorts and pulled up some rode to keep us off the rock until I got dressed. Re anchored probably at 2.5-1 scope. Spent the rest of the night on watch and left at first light.
Patterson Inlet:
XYZ. Was two other boats there ... A Krogen and a sailboat. We took the space left and the rocks wer'nt far astern. Wind increased all day to about 40 w higher gusts. The Krogens dragged. He said (later) his Bruce was fouled. We gave him several hours to move back up but he didn't .... So we did. We wound up w our anchor almost on the beach and the sailboat very close astern. About 0300 there we're some scream'in gusts but we stayed put. We anchored a total of three times in this Inlet w the XYZ and it performed flawlessly.
Mockton Inlet:
Claw. A perfect anchorage for one boat and we anchored at 5-1 scope. Pulled on the Claw at 1500 or so and we didn't move. Beautiful uneventful anchoring event and we sorta needed that.
Kynoch Inlet:
XYZ and Danforth. This was the head of a very deep fjord w a steep bottom falloff. Tried to anchor w the Danforth astern and in shallow water but it was useless. Just dragged across the bottom like it was a pice of plastic. Was weed slime. So we anchored wthe XYZ in about 80 feet set pulling toward shore. Wind onshore only 10-15 knots. Offshore breeze put us WAY offshore in the morning.
Wigwam Bay near Shearwater:
XYZ. 4-1 scope and set hard. Uneventful.
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