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Old 08-19-2018, 06:37 PM   #1
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Mis-matched chain and gypsy from factory??

My windless, a Muir Cheetah 2500, is matched with what I have always thought of as a 3/8” chain fitted when the boat was built in China. It works great with light loads, say retrieving 40’ of chain. But with longer picks or with 40’ plus anchor the chain rides up in the gypsy and eventually slips and/or binds up with the chain pipe/stripper. My solution is my rather inelegant tennis shoe pressed against the discharge side of the gypsy, and then it again works great.

Attached are two photos. The first shows a link of chain (on the right) in the center of a gypsy indentation, and then the next link on the left starting to rise up on the indentation shoulder. Pic 2 is the same after moving the camera a bit to the left.

I understand that there are two main chain sizes in the US. When I go to various web sites like https://www.1st-chainsupply.com/chai...lass_chain.htm I see that BBB chain has 11 links per foot and G40 HT chain has 9.8 links per foot. My chain has 10.40 links per foot, or an inside dimension of 1.15”

I also see a metric chain Short Link Galvanised Chain that has a pitch of 29.5mm which, if my math is right, means 10.36 links/ft (very close to my 10.40).

What I suspect, but don’t know, is that my chain is a 10mm metric variant and the gypsy is for BBB chain. The boat was built in China and they used world class parts like Muir, but may have used a locally available metric chain to keep costs down.

So, two questions: First, can anyone confirm that the photo shows the chain is not the right size for the gypsy? It clearly looks like it, but does anyone know for sure? Secondly, does anyone know what chain a Muir gypsy stamped “133” is matched to? I have looked everywhere without finding.

Thanks very much – Bruce Palmer



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Old 08-19-2018, 07:06 PM   #2
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To my eye it looks like your gypsy/wildcat is worn. The chain looks like it would fit otherwise. If it is a mismatch the wildcat is still very worn.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:14 PM   #3
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Yes the gypsy teeth are very worn. Whether they match the existing chain or not is hard to tell from the pics. You really need a wide angle shot showing 4-5 links to tell and maybe even then it will take an eyeball to know for sure.


But since your gypsy is worn you now have an opportunity to get a new gypsy that will match new chain. For your size boat I would suggest 3/8 G4 (or is it G40), ie the high tensile stuff. That way you will have chain that will smoothly run on the new gypsy.


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Old 08-19-2018, 07:36 PM   #4
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Did you google Muir chain wheel chart?
First two links look like downloadable PDF with numbers to me.

https://www.google.com.au/search?ei=...10.HN5dlejY6tU
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:45 PM   #5
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Thanks everyone. Semi 60, yes I did find and DL the Muir chart but did not see a 133 coded gypsy. But, you have prompted this idea, I see the 5/16 wheel is coded MPH1200133. Could it be possible that the stamped 133 referers to this gypsy? That would sure explain a lot - 3/8 chain in a 5/16" gypsy???
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:09 AM   #6
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I can't tell from the photo which direction the gypsy runs to pull up but does seem the chain links are slightly longer than the gypsy pitch. in both photos the chain looks centered with the pitch at the top but both to the left and right the chain links look longer than the gypsy pitch. I;m guessing the gypsy is for 5/16 BBB chain. JMO
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:37 AM   #7
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How old is your boat and the gypsy? The boat doesn`t look so old the gypsy should be worn beyond further use. Maybe it was secondhand, maybe the boat is older, maybe it did lots of anchoring, but I wonder.
You could talk to Muir by email,www.muir.com.au,(in Australia) and click Contact. Muir have a good reputation for service and advice. Send them the pics and see if they can diagnose the issue. They can supply a replacement gypsy.
(Seemed more fun when Marin used call a gypsy a wildcat.)
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:04 AM   #8
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In addition to metric, in the USA there are two major standards that chain can be manufactured to- ISO and NACM. Both have Proof Coil, and both have G4. ISO has BBB. For the same size chain, NACM chain's links are longer than that of ISO chain. Your problem may lie there. NACM chain is usually found in hardware stores, tractor or industrial supply facilities and is less expensive than ISO chain. ISO chain is usually found in chandleries and marine facilities and is more expensive than NACM chain. You may also have chain made to no accepted standard, thus its dimensions do not match either. It looks to me that your chain just isn't sized for your gypsy. Before you replace that chain, take the gypsy to your chain supplier and have them try different sizes until they match chain to it.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:40 AM   #9
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The boat was built in 2007/08 and purchased new by my buddy and brought to Alaska. It's home is in Whittier Alaska and every voyage involves one or multiple nights on the hook, so the anchor has been deployed a lot relative to boats in the lower 48. I know that the gypsy has never been replaced.

I will be getting with Muir during the next few days, but I'm coming to realize that new chain and gypsy are going to be on the agenda. Also, the current chain length is only 200' and there are many anchorages where 300' would work better. Thanks everyone.
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Old 08-20-2018, 09:03 AM   #10
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The only gypsy ending in "133" is for 5/16" G4 (or G40) HT chain, at 11.7 links/ft. Not that yours actually is that one, but it's interesting that it has that number stamped on it.

5/16" G40 HT has a 3900 lb WLL, while 3/8" G30 BBB is 2650 lb. If 50% more length is needed over what you have now, I'd probably lean toward the 5/16" G4 and keep the gypsy (assuming it's the correct one), to save weight and space over the larger chain. Plus, it's cheaper than 300 ft of 3/8" BBB plus a new wildcat.

https://www.1st-chainsupply.com/chai...lass_chain.htm

https://www.1st-chainsupply.com/chai...lass_chain.htm
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Old 08-22-2018, 05:44 AM   #11
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Mystery solved. Muir just confirmed that my gypsy is for 5/16" high test. Wow. No wonder 3/8" or 10mm chain is not working real well.
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