Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-16-2019, 06:47 PM   #1
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
Two anchors to play with.

I have been given two ARA anchors to play with.

Had them for two weeks or so and haven't even got-um wet.

One is an Excel and the other a Super SARCA. About 17lbs (the Excel) and about 23lbs for the SARCA. Over the years I've noticed I have had different notions about them and that certainly happened w these two .. mostly the Excel. And that is mostly because I've never liked the Delta and others like the delta. The Davis is, however, reported to be a very good anchor. But the Excel is in the same image so I didn't take much notice of the Excel. Especially since I've always had a soft spot for the SARCA. Claimed it as my favorite many times but w/o much reason for it to be my favorite as I'd never seen one except from a distance.

So to have them in my hands and scruitenized by eye my impression of them changed my take on them quite a bit.
Length to width (aspect ratio) is way different between the two .. SARCA being quite wide and short and Excel being very long and narrow. I can only speculate on the amount of force necessary to pull them through the seabed. It may vary re the type of seabed significantly too I think.
The shank is much like the flukes w the Excel being quite long and the SARCA unusually short.
The SARCA has the slot and the Excel does not.
Even the finish is different. Both galvanized but the Excel has a bit darker color and quite smooth. Whereas the SARCA is a more typical galvanized finish.
One feature that I didn't expect is the self launching balance .. or should I say .. imbalance. The anchors won't lay in the bow roller channel w/o immediately sliding fwd and down. I feel I better not try to mount them on the roller channel for fear of loosing them. However others will welcome this feature I'm sure.
I'll use the SARCA tripping slot the way it was designed.
Another very big difference is that the Excel is weighted at the tip of the fluke (actually to a point about 4-5" back) and the whole anchor is very nose heavy as designed. The SARCA has a supprising weight bias to the rear. I'm thinking that's unusual but all the pivoting shank anchors do also and I can think of no way to relate that to the SARCA other than that the similarity exists.
Also balance wise the Excel is pre-determined to roll over on it's side assumably as designed and does it very well. The ballast chamber isn't flat on the bottom and even on a hard surface the anchor wants to rotate.
Enter the SARCA. just the opposite. It has a wide footprint on the bottom and seems determined to sit flat on any reasonably flat surface. And as I recall on Steve's vids it didn't roll around at all even in Steve's violent reversals. Just rotated to the rode staying very flat and the diving sharply down.

I don't think I can even come close to pulling these anchors out once set. Would be difficult to rig to pull from the stern and unless I change my prop I'll only have 3-400lbs pull from the bow. My rode is almost all 5/8ths Nylon Brait and I don't want any of it wrapped around my prop. I may try a slow drift over the anchor to switch the pull to the stern. Doubt seriously if I'll come close to pulling one out unless I encounter a poor seafloor.

We're going on a road trip to Sointula in about a week .. camping. We like Port McNeil and plan to be in that area several days. May get one chance to get the boat out before we leave and if not it will be about tree wks before I try the two anchors. Have a new place picked out.

Sorry no pics .. the anchors are on the boat. But very few will not be familiar w the ARA anchors.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 05:57 AM   #2
Guru
 
ranger58sb's Avatar
 
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
One feature that I didn't expect is the self launching balance .. or should I say .. imbalance. The anchors won't lay in the bow roller channel w/o immediately sliding fwd and down. I feel I better not try to mount them on the roller channel for fear of loosing them. However others will welcome this feature I'm sure.

Our SuperMAX won't "self-launch"... which means I always have to go forward to start it forward and over the roller... even though we have helm control on the flybridge. OTOH, I have to go forward to undo the chain stopper anyway...

-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
ranger58sb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 12:51 PM   #3
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
Chris,
Even when I have an anchor on the bow roller I push it out 3" about horizontally so the fluke tip won't gouge the hull. But I always have a little rode on the channel of the bow roller that comes back around the brail and gets tied off.

I'll deal w these ARA anchors over the rail by hand on the port side. I have a bit of a harness rigged to keep me from falling overboard. I pick up the anchor w a boat hook and lift it up on deck. Anchors on deck is the usual for me.

Re the post I must have but up too many details. Many don't like details.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 10:03 PM   #4
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
I look forward to reading your impressions. As you know, I’ve been pleased with my Excel. It definitely self-launches from the bow-roller. I have a line keeping the chain tight and the anchor sucked up tight to the roller. Otherwise it would move around. When the rode is released, it leaves the anchor roller quickly.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 11:13 PM   #5
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
My Super Sarca self launches,it may depend on bowsprit design.
Looking forward to your experiences with these anchors. I have not blocked the slot on mine either(a bolt was supplied in case you want to) so it has functioned as originally designed for around 5 years since purchase.
Eric, how did you come by the anchors? Has someone at last recognized your anchor expertise?
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2019, 11:27 PM   #6
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger42c View Post
Our SuperMAX won't "self-launch"... which means I always have to go forward to start it forward and over the roller... even though we have helm control on the flybridge. OTOH, I have to go forward to undo the chain stopper anyway...

-Chris
Same here but with a Bruce knock-off. Despite having duplicate controls in the bridge, need to push off the anchor to get it going. Have always used pedal controls at the bow. Besides, need to wash down the chain and anchor when retrieved, as well as occasionally pulling off vegetation.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 01:09 AM   #7
TF Site Team
 
City: Ex-Brisbane, (Australia), now Bribie Island, Qld
Vessel Name: Now boatless - sold 6/2018
Vessel Model: Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
I have been given two ARA anchors to play with.

Had them for two weeks or so and haven't even got-um wet.

One is an Excel and the other a Super SARCA. About 17lbs (the Excel) and about 23lbs for the SARCA. Over the years I've noticed I have had different notions about them and that certainly happened w these two .. mostly the Excel. And that is mostly because I've never liked the Delta and others like the delta. The Davis is, however, reported to be a very good anchor. But the Excel is in the same image so I didn't take much notice of the Excel. Especially since I've always had a soft spot for the SARCA. Claimed it as my favourite many times but w/o much reason for it to be my favourite as I'd never seen one except from a distance.
Eric, as you know, I am the first person to bring up the Super Sarca on here, mainly because I was so impressed by it. Still am/was, even after selling the boat. I think I miss that anchor most of all. Sounds a bit silly, doesn't it, to like the anchor more than the boat. But Lotus, nice though she was was just an old CHB 34, whereas that anchor back then was unique. It was just so decidedly purposely designed to do what it does, and in such a businesslike no-frills, (some might say agricultural) way. It just does the business. I loved it, and hated to part with it.

I am therefore just dying to hear your experiences with them both, especially the S-Sarca. So please get on with it and use the things, asap and don't keep me, and others no doubt, dangling too long eh..?
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 02:10 AM   #8
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
Eric, for the Super Sarca you need a shackle to fit the slot,as far as I know Sarca doesn`t supply one. The pin slides in the slot, use a good long shank ss shackle, be sure the jaws are wide enough. I used a 1/2" Ronstan with a rating, cost about $40, your anchor is smaller so probably smaller less pricy shackle. Or you`ll have one lying around.
Happy anchoring!
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 01:59 PM   #9
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
Nomad Willy (self) wrote;
“I'll deal w these ARA anchors over the rail by hand on the port side. I have a bit of a harness rigged to keep me from falling overboard. I pick up the anchor w a boat hook and lift it up on deck. Anchors on deck is the usual for me.

This picture explains what I’m talking about.
I stand to the left (port side) and hook a chain link w a boat hook very close to the anchor. Then pull it up w both hands, rotate and place on deck. The boat hook has a rubber tip that fits tight enough not to fall off but small enough to not pose a problem hooking up. You can see my old XYZ anchor where I place the anchors on deck.
I tried the body harness but not yet w an anchor on the boat hook.

You can see my modded Claw resting the waymost anchors rest. I have a 5/16” restrainer line w a clip on one end and a bowline on the other end for length adjustment.
All the 400’ of rode goes in the plastic box w the grey cover.
Attached Thumbnails
F0D9F8E9-76B5-47F7-ADF6-C54C10645A64.jpg  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 02:36 PM   #10
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
Re the comments;
Yes the self launch was a surprise to me but many (perhaps most) deploy their anchors from the helm. A bigger advantage when solo of course. Just another way no product is right/perfect for everybody.
As I’ve said if I had it to do over I’d have a combo-winch chain/line and likely 1/3rd of the rode would be chain .... 1/4”.

Bruce,
I forgot about the special shackle that’s ideal. I have 20 or so shackles but I don’t know if I have a long and straight one just the right width. If I get the pin dia right and the shackle width right I may be good to go ... what think?
The anchors are from Chris Eldridge at Ground Tackle Marine. His idea.

Peter,
Hang in there buddy. I’m much the same and have that problem w cars too. I’m moved by your loss and perhaps you can lead me above depression when the time comes for me. Could be soon but I keep goi’n .. somewhat. But I have the problem threefold w both anchors, cars and boat. The anchors I’ll need to take to the scrap bin and that could be a bit hard.
As to the dangl’in trawlerformers I may not get to it before we leave for Port NcNeil and Soentula. At least we’ll be in a car so won’t need to hole up for weather. 2-3 weeks.

Mark,
Sounds like you need to wash down all the time. But you’re being on/in a big river delta you’ve probably never known anything but mud. But most would rather wash mud than drag anchor and it sounds like you don’t do the dragging thing.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 06:51 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Oldersalt's Avatar
 
City: San francisco
Vessel Name: Pacific Star
Vessel Model: 1990 Grand Banks 32 #834
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 204
I have a Sarca Excel 22kg on my GB 32. Used it a lot last summer in the PNW. Works great...sets fast and then stays set. Bought it after I watched the anchor review videos by S/V Panope on Youtube. He rated it as one of the best!
Oldersalt
Oldersalt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 09:54 PM   #12
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Bruce,
I forgot about the special shackle that’s ideal. I have 20 or so shackles but I don’t know if I have a long and straight one just the right width. If I get the pin dia right and the shackle width right I may be good to go ... what think?
The anchors are from Chris Eldridge at Ground Tackle Marine. His idea...
I`m sure you`ll find something suitable in your stock on hand.
The shackle is an operating part, the only moving part in fact. I think Sarca don`t supply them because they don`t make them and won`t be seen as warranting them. It needs to slide nicely without jamming either in the slot or on the shank. And be strong, I rejected one made in a tarrif war country for a Ronstan. The chain sometimes jammed around the shackle,so I added an old type cast gal swivel(shock horror ) which cured it and so far hasn`t caused other problems.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 11:33 PM   #13
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: penultimate Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
...
Mark,
Sounds like you need to wash down all the time. But you’re being on/in a big river delta you’ve probably never known anything but mud. But most would rather wash mud than drag anchor and it sounds like you don’t do the dragging thing.
Yes, have never dragged, and current and wind have set anchors without needing to reverse engine. Anchors have always set with a jerk. Strong tidal currents and winds have only sent anchors more secure.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2019, 11:49 PM   #14
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
Bruce.
Why wouldn’t a short shackle work that had straight “shackle arms” but of normal length?
A galvanized shackle of that description came w my XYZ anchor when it was new. For no connected reason I’m sure. And that anchor has a round shackle pin hole so the chain connection goes to the head of the shackle. I usually prefer that configuration ... not that I would want to build a case for it. But I won’t be using a swivel.

But if a swivel and/or a shackle was required for function I would think it would be included as part of the anchor and available as a part w a part #. I don’t know about SS shackles but I think many stronger galvanized shackles are well documented re quality and strength.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 05:36 AM   #15
TF Site Team
 
City: Ex-Brisbane, (Australia), now Bribie Island, Qld
Vessel Name: Now boatless - sold 6/2018
Vessel Model: Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
Bruce.
Why wouldn’t a short shackle work that had straight “shackle arms” but of normal length?
A galvanized shackle of that description came w my XYZ anchor when it was new.....I don’t know about SS shackles but I think many stronger galvanized shackles are well documented re quality and strength.
Eric, as long as the shackle pin sits snugly in the slot, but not too snug, and the U-shaped end clears the end of the shank when at the rode end of the slot, so it can rotate around it, it is probably long enough. Rex favoured a stainless one for anchor sizes below about #7, because a galvanised one might not be 'slippery' enough for the tripping function to operate properly. In the larger sizes it does not matter. However, as you are more interested in the set and hold function that the foul trip function I'd say don't let that be a big issue. Just use what you have that fits the above description.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2019, 08:47 AM   #16
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
Oh yes that slippery SS.
Didn’t think of that. Got a sack full of shackles at home. One is even polished bronze. But it’s too small.

Here is that shackle from XYZ w the red head pin. It was claimed to be documented high strength. Not the greatest pic but you can see the straight shaclke ears. Not a hoop end.
With the XYZ's short shank I think Draggo the designer was looking for the least amount of resistance beneath the seafloor surface so it wouldn't hold back the anchor's penetration.
Attached Thumbnails
STH71523.jpg  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 01:46 PM   #17
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
Finally making an effort w these anchors.

Went out to a local muddy bay near LaConner w two of my modded anchors and a ARA Excel plus a ARA SARCA.

Put my modded 24lb Claw on the bow being the heaviest.
Dropped down 15' or so w about 60' of line out. Hooked up OK and backed down some. After my last mud ball experience w this anchor I was not wanting heavily compacted mud. Got a load of mud that was probably lose to making the anchor inoperative. See 1st photo. Took about 6-7 minutes to brush off the mud. This mud was not as bad as the mud from a month ago but I've now got this anchor labelled as a mud hook.

Launched my Supreme and it hooked up and held 1400rpm.
Reset and was preparing to add some throttle when it broke out a bit and tried to reset. Did this several times. First time this anchor has failed and I'm at a loss to establish a good reason for it.

I had trouble lifting the 24lb Claw up over the port side w my boat hook. Tried not to but banged the anchor on the hull and the cap rail. Started to be not fun so we headed for the barn (covered moorage). If I had thought a bit more about options I probably would'a mounted the SARCA on deck and got her wet but didn't.
Have given it much more thought since (a week) and come up w a sceneraio that will probably work OK. At least for testing the SARCA and Excel ... in that order only.
Attached Thumbnails
DSCF2805.jpg   DSCF2806.jpg   DSCF2807.jpg   DSCF2808.jpg   DSCF2809.jpg  

DSCF2813.jpg   DSCF2789.jpg   DSCF2788.jpg  
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 04:01 PM   #18
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
The Sarca and the Excel clear my hull if I push down on the shank during the last bit of retrieval. The little hoop (brail?) does not clear for either anchor. Should get a higher one. The roll bar is at an opposite angle from the Rocna that is at the other extreme. The welds on these anchors are beautiful. The black thing at the end of the shank is a pair of wood blocks that limit anchor rolling back and forth. The slot must be sized to a specific anchor. My 33lb Claw in this case.
The SARCA looks like a full rigged ship compared to the Excel. For it’s weight the SARCA is large. The Excel by comparison is small. See it (last pic) next to my 12lb Supreme. The Excel is compact. This one is 21lbs and the SARCA is 23lbs. For my boat I consider any modern high performance anchor over 20lbs to be all one would ever need (anchor weight wise). My Claw is 10lbs heavier for that reason. A good anchor but not HP.

The photo below the 2nd Excel pic shows how the shank on my particular installation will allow the anchor to rotate back and forth. The wood blocks (black, noted in a post above) prevent that but must be sized to the anchor shank’s width.

Peter and Bruce I did find a SS shackle that could be a tad narrower but should work fine IMO. Notice the lack of a slot block.

Tied up this weekend w family affairs but now I think I can pull this testing gig off. The only way to do this properly is to go up the inside passage anchoring all the way. Good anchoring sites aren’t plentiful around here unless it’s a dedicated mud test. And for me to get to others is a bit problematic at 6 knots also. I have a recommendation for a spot on the west side of Camano Is. My other chosen site is in an active channel and has lots of boat wakes. Close though.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 05:00 PM   #19
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,348
Quote:
Launched my Supreme and it hooked up and held 1400rpm.
Reset and was preparing to add some throttle when it broke out a bit and tried to reset. Did this several times. First time this anchor has failed and I'm at a loss to establish a good reason for it.
From what I can tell, you answered that question earlier in the same paragraph.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 11:01 PM   #20
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,333
Eric,With 2 Sarcas to play with you`d be as happy as a dog with 2 tails. Though I think you prefer cats,and their tail indications are quite different.
Re the Supreme reset issue, it is odd, but I had a problem with the chain getting caught up on the sliding shackle. Resolved by adding a gal old figure 8 type swivel to better separate chain and shackle. Or it could be the issue caltexflanc raised.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012