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Old 05-08-2013, 12:13 AM   #1
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Mantus Anchors

Did a search and found little on TF regarding Mantus anchors. Experiences? Thoughts? Opinions? Musings? Self blinding dogmatically negative reactions?

Multipurpose Boat Anchor | MantusAnchors
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:52 AM   #2
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Actually this anchor has been brought to our attention before. Possibly by Eric. My own take on it is that it is a rollbar anchor that lacks some of the features that make a rollbar anchor effective. I don't care for the bolt-together construction.

Overall I don't see anything about the Mantus that would make it superior to the other rollbar anchors on the market. The Jeep tests on the beach are inconclusive. The fact the anchors didn't dig into the soft sand when being pulled at fairly high speed is not surprising. And the editing is such that it is very difficult to tell if the Mantus really did dig in under the same treatment.

There is no explanation on the website as to why the Mantus is supposed to perform so much better. So at this point I would say it represents another iteration of the basic rollbar theme and as such should deliver the basic performance of a rollbar anchor. But my impression is that it's just a copycat design with nothing in particular to make it stand out on its own.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:01 AM   #3
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Looks like a winner to me if one needs the "latest/greatest." Isn't marketing wonderful? Afraid one's Rocna is no longer the best? Meanwhile, I'll hold onto my Claw until it fails.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:55 AM   #4
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The following video is interesting. Sure they all would have done better with 30 feet of chain and 3:1 scope or more, but the point is the Mantus was the only one to bite.

Not saying I'm buying in, just grazing the options out there...

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Old 05-08-2013, 07:33 AM   #5
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Sure looks like a Rocna knock-off to me.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:51 AM   #6
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I think it breaks down for easy storage
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:58 AM   #7
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Perhaps they changed the angle by a few degrees to give it an advantage at a 3:1 scope. I don't think that would be a good thing. It may be a disadvantage at 5:1 or 10:1 when you really need it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:50 AM   #8
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Perhaps they changed the angle by a few degrees to give it an advantage at a 3:1 scope. I don't think that would be a good thing. It may be a disadvantage at 5:1 or 10:1 when you really need it.
Wouldn't it dig deeper then? This is a disadvantage? Not trying to be confrontational, just looking to learn from differing angles of view.

Where I live the bottoms are mostly mud, due to big mountains, heavy glaciation, and copious seasonal rains. The heads of large bays or channels where the bottom has a shallow gradient can also be the most exposed to wind, due to the length of the channels and there being mountains on both sides. This sometimes forces one to anchor on the edge of outwash fans created by smaller streams in smaller bays perpendicular to the main channel, which have a much steeper gradient.

Wouldn't a larger angle, faster/deeper penetrating anchor in these conditions be an advantage?
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:59 AM   #9
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Meanwhile, I'll hold onto my Claw until it fails.
Me too!
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:04 AM   #10
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It's definitely a Rocna inspired anchor and judging by looks only it appears to be better than the Rocna in every way. But the Rocna has history. The one advantage.

There's only one anchor that I know about that has good short scope performance and that general style .. the Manson Supreme. All others perform fine to excellent given 5-1 or better scope but you may as well have a small Claw at 3-1 or less. Anchors that look like the Delta, Rocna, Spade and perhaps the CQR seem to have poor to mediocre performance when laid out short. Why the Manson does well I don't know. Perhaps it really dosn't. I've used mine at perhaps 2 1/2 to one but not in a blow.

Murray .. what kind of rode do you have? The Mantus is an experiment for the consumer as it has no history and so is the Manson "Boss". It's an unkown too but at least it's made by a well known company w several excellent products behind it. I held a Boss in my hand (an anchor test?) and for it's size think it's light. If one was thinking harshly one would use the word wimpy. But I'd try it before the Mantus. You may be hand deploying your rode and then performance and weight are of great importance and I suspect the Boss is going to out perform everything but that's just an opinion as is most of this post. A 23 lb Fortress w a backup Claw for rocks would be a good option. Your'e going to need short scope performance but I'd like to know if you have a line or chain rode. If weight is of great importance I'd take a look at that Boss. In time you may bend it though.

AusCan,
Sure like the way your'e looking at the throat angle. Yes I agree that w a very small TA one would seem to need a very long scope to make it work. Whereas a wide TA would seem to work well only in soupy mud. That's what is almost certainly behind the Fortress's wide 45 degree option for mud. What I think is that anchors w long shanks that look like Rocnas and Deltas will break out w a wide TA at long scope and have poor short scope performance w a narrow TA. With anchors like Danforths and Claws the balance of too much throat angle or too little is (in my opinion) greatly reduced. And then there's the Manson Supreme.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:58 AM   #11
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Is a quick set more important than a good hold?
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:17 PM   #12
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I've watched his video's and come away with the thought it is a great setting anchor and has huge holding power for his tests. Then, I want to see real world experience with it and don't seem to find much out there for comparison to other anchors.

I was thinking Manson Supreme maybe but on the other hand I have the original Danforth that came with the boat as it's first anchor. It saw the boat from Boston to CA and through the ditch, aka, panama canal. I spoke to my brother who worked on oil rigs in the gulf of Mexico and he said all the rigs use huge Danforth's as anchors.

I also read a web page that started in the 90's from a charter boat company in the Sea of Cortez. He had a section on cruisers and anchoring. He has been in many chubascos, storms and hurricanes. His boats all made it fine with the anchor that looks like a W and is ugly. He said CQR, Danforth, Bruce, Claw types and others all failed there in storms.

This was before the bar type became the fad. The holding ground there is mostly gravel and sand mix and the Danforth types don't dig in well or the plows. He had divers check his anchors and others. This is the real world experience I'd like to see with the Mantus.

The bolts? Put synthetic oil on them.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:58 PM   #13
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Is a quick set more important than a good hold?
Definitely not. Our piece of sh*t Bruce anchor set fast in every bottom we encountered. And it also failed almost every time a substantial load was put on it as it has for other boaters we know. This is why we relegated it to propping open a door in the garage and got one of the proven, best-holding anchors in the world to replace it.

Setting fast is totally meaningless if it won't hold when the wind picks up. And that is precisely the problem with the Bruce/Claw type anchors. In the weights used for the size of boats most of us on this forum have--- 33# and 44#--- their holding under high pressure sucks, which has been born out in anchor test after anchor test for decades.

The Mantus looks like a cheap, bolt-together knock off of the proven rollbar anchors--- Bugel, Rocna, Sarca, and Manson. I think Eric's assessment-- based on photos and the website I assume-- that it is "better than the Rocna in every way," is totally off the mark. There is absolutely no way to know this other than using both anchors in a variety of real anchoring situations, not by pulling them at high speed across a soft sand beach with a Jeep station wagon.

The Mantus website and the video demos are vague and iffy at best with virtually no reasons given for the anchor's supposedly superior performance. In contrast, Rocna, Sarca, etc. explain exactly how and why their anchors work, which was one of the two main reasons we bought the anchor we did to replace our unreliable Bruce.

The Mantus site may even be deliberately misleading based on the way the videos are edited. Given the right footage and my Avid editing suite and Adobe AfterEffects, I can easily make an empty dog food can outperform a Sarca. At this point in time, I strongly suspect this is the case with the Mantus demos.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:38 PM   #14
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Subscribed. I find it interesting that there are no third party tests/reviews available save the one below that mentions the Mantus:

A Second Look at Anchor Shanks - Inside Practical Sailor Blog Article
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:11 PM   #15
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Is a quick set more important than a good hold?
Sure,

How many times have you had trouble getting an anchor to set v/s how many times have you dragged?

An average anchor set is way better than super anchor that won't. duh
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:20 PM   #16
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Sure,

How many times have you had trouble getting an anchor to set v/s how many times have you dragged?

That is totally back-asswards in my opinion. What good is an anchor if it won't hold when it matters? None, no matter how easy it might have been to set it. And so what if it sometimes takes a couple of tries to get a good set? That's irrelevant in comparison to having that same anchor let go at 0300 when the wind and waves kick up and you need that anchor to stay put.

Putting the emphasis on setting is just dumb, in my opinion. Most anchor designs will set just fine the first time. But not that many anchor designs will hold well when they really get pulled on. The Bruce/Claw is the absolute worst in this regard but other anchors like the CQR will give up sooner rather than later when subjected to a good strong pull.

If it won't hold it's not worth having on the boat.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:44 PM   #17
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:45 PM   #18
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We have never experienced an anchor reset when the currents reverse up here, even a 4 knot current. This is with our current anchor. I suspect our POS Bruce was not unsetting either under those conditions even though we weren't using a tripline and float with it because it never dug in deep enough to need one. So we had no way of determining if the Bruce was still exactly where it had initially set.

With our current anchor we ofen use a trip line because if it blows good the anchor will dig in so deep it's faster to simply back it out with the trip line than use the boat to break it out. So we can tell exactly where the anchor is from the position of the trip line float. There is simply not enough pressure from a current reversal alone to unset the anchor--- at least not this one--- and move it around until it resets.

However.... we use all-chain rode and a minimum 5:1 scope so if there is no wind a current reversal of even 4 knots or so does not put enough pressure on the boat to even lift all the chain off the bottom. So the anchor itself most likely never sees the pull reversal at all. This was probaby true of the Bruce as well since we used the same chain and the same amount of it under low-wind conditions.

Wind shifts with medium to strong winds are totally different situations.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:18 PM   #19
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Marin wrote;

"Putting the emphasis on setting is just dumb, in my opinion."

Calling me "dumb" is not acceptable. And you have already expressed your opinion and expressing an opinion multiple times does not make it anymore right than it was the first time. But I will say that if you're anchoring in such mild conditions that you could say "reversal of even 4 knots or so does not put enough pressure on the boat to even lift all the chain off the bottom" ...... what on earth are you going to do w all this holding power? 99% of the time it's best you get anchored in the first place and stay hooked up and then dealing w the 1% you could stand watch and otherwise deal w the 1% in a seamanlike manner. The boat and your safety are only compromised if YOU drop the ball.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:27 PM   #20
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Have you come within feet of losing a $100,000 boat because a storm came in six hours earlier than forecast and a piece of sh*t anchor didn't hold? We have. And more than once although the last time was the real clincher. And we have friends who have come even closer to losing their boat with a crappy Bruce anchor than we have.

Until you've experienced something like that, and multiple times to boot, you don't have a clue how important holding power really is. Even if you only need it a few times a year or a few times in ten years, if you don't have good holding power, you may not have a boat.

So don't try to tell me that holding power is irrelevant compared to the ease of setting. I don't give a crap if I have to try ten times to get an anchor to set properly if I know that once it is set it's not going anywhere come hell or high water. The Bruce/Claw type anchor doesn't come within a million miles of inspiring that kind of confidence. Our current anchor does.

Which is why I say--- from direct experience--- that the notion of putting ease of setting before holding is a dumb philosophy to follow.

You have said in the past that you have had relatively little anchoring experience which tells me that most of your assumptions about anchors and anchoring is armchair theory. We've been on deck in five foot waves and 40 knot winds at 3 am with the boat being blown down fast onto a railroad trestle. Our friends have been in the same situation only their boat was being blown into a cliff. So I'm not interested in a bunch theory about how anchors should work. What I'm intersted in is how anchors DO work. Or don't in the case of the Bruce.

So I know from trying to get a boat out of danger more than once that holding is WAY more important than ease of setting. That's not an armchair theory, that's reality.
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