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Old 05-08-2013, 07:34 PM   #21
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Subscribed. I find it interesting that there are no third party tests/reviews available save the one below that mentions the Mantus:

A Second Look at Anchor Shanks - Inside Practical Sailor Blog Article
PauHana,
It looks to me like they may be getting their "tensile strength" and hardness mixed up. And if a steel gets hard enough it will break instead of bend. Aircraft bolts are made out of a steel that bends before breaking. The (AN (army navy)) bolt is weaker but safer because it bends a lot before it breaks. Where-as a grade 5 or 8 "SAE" bolt will break when bent although it is considerably stronger in "tensile strength".
If there are faults in what I have just said the point is that hardness may not be the best yardstick for judging strength.

I was pleased seeing this Claw anchor fluke bend and not break. I saw two Claws in Craig that were bent at the shank at least as bad as this. And fishermen usually carry anchors much larger than most of us that tend to go larger. So you can imagine the forces these anchors were exposed to.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:11 PM   #22
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"What I'm intersted in is how anchors DO work" says Marin.

Like in how well they set?

Other than that Marin what's your opinion?
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:47 PM   #23
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"What I'm intersted in is how anchors DO work" says Marin.

Like in how well they set?
No. Like in how well they hold once they are set.

I could care less how an anchor sets. If it lies on its side and pivots in or digs straight in or puts one fluke in and then turns to put the others in.... it's all totally irrelevant to me as long as it DOES set. But once it's set it damn well better stay set because THAT's what's important in anchoring. It's why they call it an "anchor," not a "setter."

If an anchor sets nicely-- like the Bruce--- and then comes out under pressure--- like the Bruce--- then it's a completely worthless anchor in my view. Which is why our Bruce is not only acting as a door stop in our garage but is also why we will not sell it to anyone. Boating friends have asked to buy it because it's a genuine Bruce in perfect condition and they are no longer made. But we feel it would be bordering on criminal to sell an accident waiting to happen to an unsuspecting boater. So it will serve out its life as a doorstop until such time as we send it to a landfill with the rest of our garbage.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:14 AM   #24
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Murray .. what kind of rode do you have?
Hi Eric,

Our boat came with a 7.5 kg Bruce, 30' of chain and 300' of anchor line. Pretty small anchor for a 30' boat presenting such a broad face to the wind...

The plan is to move up to at least a 10 kg Lewmar Claw (if we stay with the same style of anchor) with 30' of 5/16" chain and 350' of 1/2" 8 strand brait line. We have a capstan winch, so I'll be hauling by hand once the chain comes aboard.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:25 AM   #25
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We have a capstan winch, so I'll be hauling by hand once the chain comes aboard.
You already know how I feel about the Bruce/Claw particularly in the smaller sizes so we'll leave that alone. But I'm wondering if your windlass can be fitted with a combination drum? One that can retrieve both line and chain.

This sort of thing is available on a number of different makes of windlasses although I can't tell you offhand which ones. But perhaps it might be worth looking into because if your windlass can be fitted with one it will save you having to haul up the chain and anchor by hand. Which is no fun I can tell you, having had to do it once when the windlass that came with the boat lunched some gears. Which is why we have a new one now.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:59 AM   #26
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Mantus anchors

Marin wrote:
But we feel it would be bordering on criminal to sell an accident waiting to happen to an unsuspecting boater. So it will serve out its life as a doorstop until such time as we send it to a landfill with the rest of our garbage.


Rex writes:
Marin does have a point, equally it would also be bordering on a criminal act, or worse to sell an anchor designed with a specific steel grade to be redeemed as safe, then only to meet a price, reduce the quality of its original steel make up resulting in bent shanks.


Of course we need anchors that will rapidly penetrate and then hold, I have no doubt that weather the Mantus has third party tests or not theIr anchors do as they claim, this type of anchor technology is now becoming more of the norm.

The road maps are laid and should be easy to follow, I can tell you, get set for yet another design to hit the market shortly. No not mine.


So I don’t think there will be any problems with what Mantus claims, something that is even more important and should be questioned is design and construction, I say this partly due to the far better holding power of modern anchor designs, modern anchor technology, more holding power requires stronger better build and design, when searching new anchor technology also search the product for quality and certification of build and proof test.


As we have had to go through the whole process so many times with an independent authorized tester, it has helped us enormously and been a complete eye opener as to what we thought was strong enough, another reason for certification is it puts not just the strength of an anchor design through its paces but proves its ability to set , reset if broken out , a required penetration distance, then to maximum hold distance resulting in an independent of the holding power per kilo of anchor weight, this is all done in sand.


If you want approval in various types of sea floors then the same tests have be carried out by the same independent tester in the types of sea floor you are seeking certification for.


Finally, if you build an anchor design out of mild steel it still has to meet all of the above requirement’s, so steel quality is not the issue if it is a tested certified anchor design, the mild steel will befar thicker to cope with the required loads, however the mild steel does not have good recoil properties to absorb shock, we use all 360 grade mild steel in the Super Sarca’s and in twenty years have only heard of four bent anchors, this I believe is because meet a standard, not high holding power standards, Super high holding power standards, far superior to high holding power build construction.


The Excel is a different beast, it requires thinner steels to obtain correct orientation among many other aspects of its design, I take Erics point as to high tensile steels snapping, this is why we run with bisaloy 80, it is not to say we have the strongest shank but to meet the requirements for Super High Holding power proof tests, with one major advantage over mild steel, Bisaloy has incredible flexing and recoil properties that majorly help to reduce shock to anchor design , and reduce shock loads on the boat itself.


As Far as I am concerned this is where many of you should be focusing your attention, I know in some parts of the world certification can be bought, here in Australia you are scrutinized all the way and can simply get away with nothing, this is why boats under survey required certified anchors.


Both of our Designs are accredited with Super High Holding Power Certification.

Regards Rex.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:25 AM   #27
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Murray,
I do the same thing. Pull the nylon line up until the chain comes over the bow roller and then haul the chain and anchor aboard easily by hand ... unless I've got my 35lb anchor on the line and then it's a grunt for me but a younger person w/o back troubles may still find that easy. Most of my anchors are 18 to 22lbs. The whole system works very well except the line wants to run off side of the drum. Need a fix there.

Here's my setup in the pic. The line is 5/8ths Brait (not braid). There's 325' of the 5/8ths then there's 100' of 3 strand 1/2". The 1/2" is a sacrificial piece to save the Brait.

Our boats are the same size except the Willard is heavier. The Brait is overkill and purchased just before coming to Alaska. I think 1/2" is probably fine for both our boats.

I don't know where everybody gets this idea that the original anchor of any type is superior to all anchors (called knockoffs) that strongly resemble the original. The principals of evolution suggest otherwise. Of course one must find out if a "knockoff" is a cheaply made approximation of the original or a superior product evolved from the original design. Anything can be improved upon. There are a number of anchors that look like the Delta. Shark for one. Is it better or a cheap imitation? Anchor tests and BS on the docks is about all we've got to go on. Plus our own opinion of what the anchor looks like. I was very very impressed w the Manson Boss until I picked one up and held it. Now I'm just very impressed. If I didn't have so many anchors I'd try one. Seemed too light and there's no guarantee if bent. But Manson has a good reputation. By comparison my Manson Supreme seems over heavy.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:22 AM   #28
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An original Bruce is forged, most claw copies are cast. There is a difference.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:38 AM   #29
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Spy,
Dosn't matter now as the Bruce brand is history.

As for the Claws they are so cheap and they get bent so seldom (and I've never heard of one breaking) it would seem silly to worry about it's quality in that regard. But they are all a bit different and it would be nice to know which ones were best in performance.

I bought a new 22lb Claw for $70. in Alaska. Probably not much room for quality materials in that price and if I used it for years I probably wouldn't bend it. One would be inclined to say good enough.

But Spy you have a point ... forged v/s cast. Perhaps all the bent Claws I've seen were not Bruce anchors.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:36 PM   #30
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Marin wrote:
But we feel it would be bordering on criminal to sell an accident waiting to happen to an unsuspecting boater. So it will serve out its life as a doorstop until such time as we send it to a landfill with the rest of our garbage.


Rex writes:
Marin does have a point, equally it would also be bordering on a criminal act, or worse to sell an anchor designed with a specific steel grade to be redeemed as safe, then only to meet a price, reduce the quality of its original steel make up resulting in bent shanks.
I certainly agree with that. Fortunately our anchor was made long before production was moved to China and the ensuing metal quality issues arose. For this reason I hesitate today to recommend this brand of anchor to people thinking about buying a new one because I simply don't know what their quality is like nowadays. Since the company's takeover by Canadian Metals I have read that the quality is back where it is supposed to be. And I've also read that the anchors that were made with the lesser grade of steel are still more than strong enough for the job. The issue was more about misleading information from the manufacturer than it was about the actual strength of the anchors.

The design of this anchor is, in my opinioni anyway, still the best on the market for this type (rollbar) of anchor. The other reputable rollbar anchors are extremely good and we'd feel good about having any of them on our boat, particularly the Sarca. But I believe the Rocna design is still superior. Obviously this is disputed by fans of the other anchor brands.

In reality I think it's a Ford-Chevy sort of thing. In the end, it comes down to individual preferences and I think the Rocna has design features that make it just a wee bit better than the others, just as I feel Ford's F-series pickups have design features that make it just a bit better than Chevy's Silverado pickups. (Having just been through an extensive research and comparison process for a pickup it's a subject that is very recent to me).
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:05 PM   #31
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Any anchor is better than none.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:10 PM   #32
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Any anchor is better than none.
Not necessarily. If you don't have an anchor at all, you won't anchor in situations that could get you in trouble at 0300 when the wind kicks up and your anchor lets go. You'll be safely tied up at a marina or a well anchored (hopefully) mooring buoy.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:36 PM   #33
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Not necessarily. If you don't have an anchor at all, you won't anchor in situations that could get you in trouble at 0300 when the wind kicks up and your anchor lets go. You'll be safely tied up at a marina or a well anchored (hopefully) mooring buoy.
That's a great point. Also, having an undersized anchor makes the worse sense to me. My friend had a 52 Santa Cruz and it's anchor was sized for a 30' boat. He did transpac's and the usual Newport to Ensenada races and never anchored until one time in Ensenada. That was a disaster for him.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:46 PM   #34
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So I know from trying to get a boat out of danger more than once that holding is WAY more important than ease of setting. That's not an armchair theory, that's reality.
So an anchor that does both would be really good, right...?
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:01 AM   #35
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So an anchor that does both would be really good, right...?
Absolutely. Which is why we bought the Rolls Royce (or Bugatti Veyron if you're more inclined in that direction, or Kenworth if you're more inclined in that direction) of anchors.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:51 AM   #36
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Absolutely. Which is why we bought the Rolls Royce (or Bugatti Veyron if you're more inclined in that direction, or Kenworth if you're more inclined in that direction) of anchors.
In those terms, I sort of think of my anchor as the Range Rover of anchors, myself...oh sorry...for the uninitiated it's a Super Sarca..shoulda mentioned that 'spose.
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Old 05-15-2013, 01:24 PM   #37
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This is all well and good, but I'm waiting for the video of the empty dog food can anchor!

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Old 05-15-2013, 02:56 PM   #38
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We had a party boat in our marina and it was used by several brothers and cousins. They were heavy beer drinkers and they loved cracking the beer can open when they finished it and tossing it over board. The boat never left the slip. Over the course of a few years they had tossed enough empties to ground the boat at low tide.

That was a Budweiser Anchor.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:46 AM   #39
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Guys its Greg with Mantus, I just joined the forum and found this thread. I would love to answer any questions.
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Old 08-07-2013, 09:37 AM   #40
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I'm building a new anchor pulpit for my boat and will probably buy a new anchor or two. I am still a long way from any purchase as I'm replacing the deck now first.
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