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Old 04-06-2016, 05:41 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Chris I think the Back Hoe/Super Max is a scoop anchor. Tell me why not if your inclined.
I think I don't disagree that it's a scoop, but I think of it as different from the other convex scoops -- which all seemed to be flat-ish (but convex) triangular shapes. Whereas the SuperMAX scoop is more like the bucket of a back-hoe.



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Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
... a wedge, which if you look at it from the pointy end, is shaped such that it does not plough up the bottom, turning it over and out like a farm plough, but rather is shaped so as to continue to try and dive deeper. just as long as there is forward movement through the substrate (bottom).
I remember that being Rex's point, too, and it sounds good... I just can't make out the differences that might cause that in the pictures of a Rex anchor and a Delta. Haven't seen one of Rex's in person...

-Chris
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Old 04-06-2016, 06:04 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Surely the Super Sarca fluke is both concave and convex, depends which side you view it from, top or underneath.
If you take the CQR as a classic example of a plow/plough blade, the SS is nothing like one. It gets closer to a disc plough, except it`s triangular not round, and it operates blade parallel to the surface being "ploughed", not at a right angle, like a disc or blade plough.
Hard to call it a plough imo.
Good point Bruce, and even better explained like this...

Excel is not a plough anchor, as there are no ploughshares, but in their place is what are called single plain concave flukes, this being the greater part of its concave arrangement, and rather than plough the substrate, this new fluke arrangement is designed to compress, then directs the material-substrate over the rear of the Excel forcing itself deeper as more load is applied...

Putting it another way...looked at a Sarca, especially the Excel, there are two concave blades, fused at the upper edge to form in effect a rather flattened inverted v-shape, like this, /\, only flatter...whereas the scoop type flukes are the opposite, and front end on look like this, \/, only flatter. If coming towards you, which is going to trend down, and which up, and which is going to hold more stuff when it comes up..?
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:05 AM   #103
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I have both the Ex-Cel and a Delta. When you see them side by side the difference is readily apparent. No siemilarity in design. My Delta served me well with only a couple of hard bottoms it didn't set. The Ex-Cel bites fast and hard.

So the Ex-Cel is the best anchor. Pgitug, send me a PM so I can let you know where to send the $$.
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:45 AM   #104
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This is nuts. Everyone is so sensitive about their baby they think the only correct name for their baby is something real special and unique. Type names have already been established. Mostly scoop and plow.

Arguments can be made about the SARCA that dosn't fit neatly into the accepted anchor type names but the Excel is clearly a plow. And at one time "plough" referred to a farm implement but in boat anchor talk it's one of the most popular anchor types. The name plow (I'll use that spelling for anchors) is well established and I didn't make it up. There's scoop (didn't make that one up either) and plow. There's no such thing as roll bar anchors as roll bars are an auxiliary function .. not primary. All roll bar anchors are scoop or plow as a primary identification feature.

It boils down to not wanting your very special baby to be named after a farm tool but that's what has happened.

So What is it going to be for these AR anchors? The SARCA is a scoop or plow ... I personally can't see it as a scoop. And the Excel is not a scoop in anybodies fantasy. The name scoop and plow refers to the shape of the fluke. Very appropriate. Like a FD - SD boat hull .... defined by shape. It's primary. Scoop and plow is well established. It's just a matter of pining the right identifying word on the appropriately shaped anchor.

Some anchor names like Stockless aren't very good because of all the new anchors that have nothing to do w stocks. Except for the Danforth and Fortress all the other anchors in this thread have long been established as scoops or plows. IMO.

But if there should be other names lets hear them.

I agree Don .. the thread choose the Excel and the Supreme as #1. That's what the thread said. But as a basic type the Excel is a plow.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:00 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
Courtesy of Anchor Right, this may help Eric...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...o&noredirect=1

Peter I've seen that. I even have it on a disc.

Simple ... non scoop anchors don't scoop as much. I prefer a flat fluke and the SARCA is'nt far from that. If there was a third name for anchor types that embraced flat flukes it could be probably applied to the SARCA. But there is only scoop and plow. Concave and convex. SARCA is convex and convex anchors are called plows.

And Bruce, Peter .. concavity or convexity are perceived buy looking down on the surface ... not up underneath.
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Old 04-06-2016, 11:19 AM   #106
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Chris wrote;
"I think I don't disagree that it's a scoop, but I think of it as different from the other convex scoops -- which all seemed to be flat-ish (but convex) triangular shapes. Whereas the SuperMAX scoop is more like the bucket of a back-hoe."

Indeed the Max is different.
I put a chisel nosed tip on my XYZ about 3.5" wide. When I thought about it I reflected that the Max had three wide tips and it apparently worked so maybe my one wide tip would. I assumed it would only set in mud but wanted to try it. I did and on our trip down from SE Alaska through Canada it set and held every time. I concluded there was a lot of mud up there. Actually I think by quite a margin most all anchorages in the PNW are a mud bottom. We used that XYZ at least 6 times probably more. I tried it since in the San Juan Is. over a grassy bottom in Fisherman Bay (Lopez Is.) and it wouldn't set. But the inspiration to try it came from my remembering the Max.

As to the name "Back Hoe" it does clearly fit better but scoop fits too and it's established. Like I said I like the Back Hoe name but it's a name for something else.
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Old 04-06-2016, 04:46 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
There's no such thing as roll bar anchors as roll bars are an auxiliary function .. not primary. All roll bar anchors are scoop or plow as a primary identification feature.
FWIW, the only reason I think useful (for me) to make roll-bar "sub-categories" (or whatever) is because I think all the roll-bar anchors (plow or scoop) won't fit on our pulpit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
As to the name "Back Hoe" it does clearly fit better but scoop fits too and it's established. Like I said I like the Back Hoe name but it's a name for something else.
And it's the only thing I could think of that so effectively described it, when I was asked how it differed from a ... ummm... I forget. Ultra, I think... One of the other scoops, anyway.




In any case, I don't feel strongly one way or the three others about any of this.




-Chris
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Old 04-06-2016, 05:27 PM   #108
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I figured that my post would smoke Eric out. I had almost put a smiley on it, but thought naw. Let's see what Eric does with it.
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Old 04-06-2016, 06:37 PM   #109
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I suppose it helps to understand design to figure out why a particular anchor works (or does not) effectively. Especially for anchor enthusiasts. And it could be helpful if you were deciding to "take a punt" on an anchor of similar design properties to a proven performer.
Anchoring is intended to be an effective method of keeping a boat in one place in the absence of a dock or a fixed mooring apparatus to tie to. We all want to wake with our boat where it was when we went to bed.
For my part I`m content to use what I believe is as good a performer as I have seen on the market. There are many variables in every anchoring, the anchor itself is just one, but an important one,of the anchoring procedure. If in the future there are potentially better all round anchors, I will consider them.
And that`s why the identical procedure tests performed by Steve are so valuable.
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Old 04-06-2016, 07:42 PM   #110
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Manyboats, I think the most kicka.. name is the Bullwagga, truly a strange looking anchor. Any TF members using one of these and how do they rate against the sales hype ?
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Old 04-06-2016, 07:46 PM   #111
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My choice. All chain ( 5/16" HT) on the Vucan and 100' chain and 150' rope on the Fortress.
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Old 04-06-2016, 07:52 PM   #112
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Here's an image of a new 154-ft US Coast Guard Sentinel-class cutter during a recent March commissioning in Puerto Rico. This vessel displaces 353 long tons (about 791k lbs) and its primary anchor (mounted on bow) is the Fortress FX-125, which weighs about 70 lbs.

Not to brag (well, maybe a little), but I don't believe that there is another 70 lb anchor in the world that could come close to meeting the performance standard that was required for approval aboard a vessel of this size.


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Old 04-06-2016, 07:54 PM   #113
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Don as you can see it dosn't much to smoke me out.

Re the anchor name plow .....
I can see the name plow would be a little like calling my Willard a barge. There are fine yachts in Europe called barges. But I'm sure there's no negative energy associated w the name. But if you called my Willard a barge my response would'nt be all positive as that is'nt an accepted name for a Willard. And I don't think there is any negative energy in the anchor name "plow" but I do think that some here do. Rex sorta came unglued when someone called his Excel a plow but that classification can't be avoided.

Anyway I don't think there's much we can do about it now. Scoop and Plow are the common accepted names now and I don't think the anchor name plow is intended as a slur at all.
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Old 04-06-2016, 07:58 PM   #114
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My choice. All chain ( 5/16" HT) on the Vucan and 100' chain and 150' rope on the Fortress.
2 Good choices.
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:04 PM   #115
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Dave,
I think the exchange rate is still good for us.


Well the choices expressed here are amazing in that there is an extremely wide variety.

Anchor. Votes
Excel. 5
Supreme. 5
Rocna. 4
Mantus. 3
Delta. 3
Fortress. 2
SARCA. 2
Super Max. 2
Bruce. 2
Vulcan. 1
Danforth. 1
Spade. 1
AC-14 Stockless. 1

13 anchors chosen w only 32 votes. No consensus really. A very wide varity of choices.
Nevertheless, this is quite contrary to anchors I've observed on boats. ... Possibly due to inactive boaters ... or people justifying their new investments.
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:59 PM   #116
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Mark,
Perhaps most people don't anchor and of those that do .. do it under benign conditions whereas there is no motivation to upgrade their anchor. And speaking of "upgrade" most would assume the anchor is fine .... after all there it is, someone put it there and they probably know more than I do so it dosn't even enter their minds.

The anchors above were chosen by TF guys and most of us (that do post) know quite a bit about anchoring. These are the best anchors in the world and what you see on boats are at the other end of the game. Like 20 yr old beater cars. Not supprising there's a big difference.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:05 PM   #117
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Nevertheless, this is quite contrary to anchors I've observed on boats. ... Possibly due to inactive boaters ... or people justifying their new investments.
Again, I have a CQR on my sailboat. Not because I think it is the best, but because it came with the boat and it worked "well enough" that it never rose high enough on the "needs to be improved" list to bother changing it. So you would walk the dock and see a CQR on my bow.

Someone should do a poll on TF, and list all the anchors that might be selected by TF readers, and ask them which anchor they would buy now if they didn't have any anchor.
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:43 PM   #118
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Discussions tend to be rhetorical by nature and one of the realities of life is budget. Most of these superman anchors are extremely expensive, some are ridiculous in my opinion.

So we often hear the scare tactic response of "how much is it worth to risk losing your boat?" Well, no anchor will save your boat in severe conditions - only your brain and skills and experience will.

The other reality is that if you travel and anchor enough then there is a high risk of losing an anchor - having to cut it free. So you could go out and buy an "obsolete" Bruce type that is 3 times heavier and still half the cost of a high tech anchor. WHEN you lose it then it won't be so big an impact on your lifestyle.

I really appreciate the varied opinions that I see on this and other forums, but I hope that newbies that are here to learn aren't being overly-inundandated with the idea that they must have the latest and greatest and electronic and expensive. Remember that there are hundreds of times more experienced sailors that have circled the globe in $20k sailboats 25-30 feet long than there are those with million dollar trawlers.

That's my opinion, love it or hate it. Thanks guys.
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:45 PM   #119
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Mantus. Ronca or manson supreme. All very good
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Old 04-06-2016, 10:52 PM   #120
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Mantus, Rocna, Manson Supreme. Yes all seem to be good. I went with the Mantus bought on Amazon because it was eligible for Prime and was shipped to Anchorage free. I don't think they will do that again.

Tom
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