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Old 04-05-2016, 10:37 AM   #81
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Maybe a better question would be, what anchor would you buy if you had to buy a new anchor? Many of us bought our current anchors before some of the new designs were available. I have a CQR on my current boat and it is adequate. However, I wouldn't buy another CQR to replace it. I would get something that addressed the CQRs shortcomings in my experience, which has been difficulty in setting.
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:51 AM   #82
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Well personally I'd say the top 4 or 5 have something in common.

And what is that?

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Old 04-05-2016, 10:56 AM   #83
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Oh if it isn't obvious I classified the anchors (type wise) as follows ..

Plow;
Delta, SARCA, Excel

Scoop;
Supreme, Claw, Vulcan, Mantus, Spade, Super Max and Rocna.

I guess..

Think I'd have maybe said concave, convex, scoop (or back-hoe: SuperMAX)... and then wouldn't there be a sub-category for roll-bar vs. non-roll-bar?

I can't always remember which is which, aside from the Delta (concave?) , the roll-bar Rocna, and the back-hoe.

-Chris
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Old 04-05-2016, 11:41 AM   #84
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Sorry, I lost track of the anchor threads.

Nick Shaw
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He was very quick to reply to my email and very helpful. Rex from Anchor Right also pointed me to Nick. So he is legit.
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:18 PM   #85
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And what is that?

-Chris
Newer types and general shape in several cases.
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:21 PM   #86
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Thanks Sean. Good to know.
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:32 PM   #87
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I guess..

Think I'd have maybe said concave, convex, scoop (or back-hoe: SuperMAX)... and then wouldn't there be a sub-category for roll-bar vs. non-roll-bar?

I can't always remember which is which, aside from the Delta (concave?) , the roll-bar Rocna, and the back-hoe.

-Chris
Yes I like that especially the back-hoe part. Haha. All the convex anchore are plows and all the concave anchors are scoops as I classified them. Just calling them convex and concave may work as well. Roll bar or non-roll bar dosn't work as some anchors have other means of righting themselves such as the Boss and Vulcan. So IMO convex and concave is ok but roll bar as a type would need the company of more anchors than we have here on the table. Perhaps self righting would be ok grouping RB and other self righting anchors together.

Chris how would you classify all the common anchors?
Stockless isn't a good name for Navy-like anchors as most all anchors common on pleasure boats are stockless. Perhaps "Stockless Pivoting Shank" anchors is better. You can't call them pivoting shank anchors because Danforth and Fortress anchors would need to be included and they clearly aren't of the same type.

The only other types hard to classify is the Claw and SARCA. the Claw could be a type in itself along w the Max .. Perhaps. The SARCA is different as are all SARCA owners but they are convex. I remember Rex said they started w a prototype SARCA that was concave but it's clearly convex now however only slightly. So what is the XYZ? Few care but it's another anchor hard to classify and perhaps related to the SARCA. Maby that's why I like them both.

I'll make a list of anchors needing clasifying or add to yours Chris. Then we can put them into boxes. Perhaps we need a new thread?
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Old 04-05-2016, 03:40 PM   #88
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At least the OP (Pgitug) has his answer ..........Excel.

The Supreme got as many votes but most or many feel the Supreme is flawed or possibly flawed ..... unlike the Excel. But the Excel hasn't been tested anywhere near as much as the Supreme and the Supreme has a very good record in many extensive anchor tests. Perhaps we need a poll?
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Old 04-05-2016, 05:40 PM   #89
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Chris how would you classify all the common anchors?

Ummm....

Convex Plow (or plough)
Convex Plow with rollbar
Concave Scoop
Convex scoop with rollbar
Back-hoe
Pivoting with stock
Stockless pivoting

????

Something like that?

I don't always remember which anchor goes in which category, though.

I remember once reading one of Rex's vehement dissertations about the differences between a plough and one of his SARCA anchors. And then visually comparing pictures of his and a Delta... and not really seeing the difference.

Happened to be looking at the Mantus website today (after the question about built in U.S.) and found their sizing tool suggests a 65-lb anchor for our boat, 1640 square centimeters of fluke. Our back-hoe (about 50-lbs) is about 1850 square centimeters of fluke. I don't se a quick way to look up fluke size of a Fortress, but our FX-37 (21-lbs) probably would be starting to get on the large size.

Perhaps fluke size may be at least as useful a classification as shape... or maybe a ratio of fluke size to weight or some such... although fluke size and overall weight and obviously moving targets as anchors get larger...

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Old 04-05-2016, 06:03 PM   #90
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You forgot...

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Old 04-05-2016, 06:11 PM   #91
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Go for a Rocna or Mantus. Good hold, good reset, good nights sleep. Also carry a Fortress for stern or emergency.
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Old 04-05-2016, 07:21 PM   #92
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Here's an image of a new 154-ft US Coast Guard Sentinel-class cutter during a recent March commissioning in Puerto Rico. This vessel displaces 353 long tons (about 791k lbs) and its primary anchor (mounted on bow) is the Fortress FX-125, which weighs about 70 lbs.

Not to brag (well, maybe a little), but I don't believe that there is another 70 lb anchor in the world that could come close to meeting the performance standard that was required for approval aboard a vessel of this size.


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Old 04-05-2016, 07:35 PM   #93
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That is impressive...but cruising vessels have different requirements than many commercial and military vessels.

Even large ship anchoring comparisons are often debated as totally different for many reasons such as live watches and bringing up propulsion for even relatively low wind speeds (often 35 knots and vessels in anchorages must turn on propulsion by order of the USCG Captain of the Port.)


While I think every vessel should have a an appropriate Fortress on board....it wont be hanging on as many cruisers as you might like. We both have heard those reasons plenty of times whether fair or not.
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Old 04-05-2016, 08:26 PM   #94
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When I was a salesman and called on the Coast Guard ships based in Miami, all of the Island Class 110 foot ships carried Fortress anchors. I guess they liked them if they put them on the replacement class of ships.
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:07 PM   #95
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Chris wrote;
"Ummm....

Convex Plow (or plough)
Convex Plow with rollbar
Concave Scoop
Convex scoop with rollbar
Back-hoe
Pivoting with stock
Stockless pivoting

????"

Convex Plough ... Delta and Excel.
Convex Plough w RB ... SARCA.
Concave Scoop ... Claws, Vulcan, Spade and Max.
Concave scoop w RB ... Supreme, Mantus and Rocna.
Pivoting shank w stocks ... Fortress and Danforths.
Stockless pivoting shank anchors ... AC-14, Navy and Dreadnought.

Chris I think the Back Hoe/Super Max is a scoop anchor. Tell me why not if your inclined. I could put the XYZ on the list but I think I'm the only member who has one. That could also be said about the Dreadnought. It's a good example of a Stockless anchor though .. see pic below.

Yes I think Rex of Anchor Right didn't like it when someone called his SARCA a plough anchor but what else can it be called?

"or maybe a ratio of fluke size to weight or some such."
Re fluke size to weight I think the XYZ would be well above any other anchor in this regard in steel. There is only a shank and fluke ... and it's the smallest shank I've ever seen. Shorter flukes can be made lighter as they require less strength so it's a double save .. or advantage. Any weight saved by smaller appendages (or lack of) can be put into the fluke making it larger. It has been said (perhaps several to many times) that an anchor's holding power is directly proportional to it's fluke area.

HopCar,
Yes I think the Coast Guard probably knows what they are doing. psneeld's comments are applicable to stockless anchors on ships but the Fortress is even more suitable to pleasure boats than CG boats so I think if Brian is at all bragging it's well justified. But the "cruising" part of psneeld's comments are justified too as it is frequently to seldom known what kind of bottom a cruising boat will need to anchor in. The Danforth types aren't known for all bottom types.
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:36 PM   #96
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[QUOTE=manyboats;430833]

Yes I think Rex of Anchor Right didn't like it when someone called his SARCA a plough anchor but what else can it be called? [QUOTE]

Quite simply, because they are not. A true plough (plow is US speak), has only one blade, (or several mounted one behind the other), and prevented from digging too deep by the frame and wheels of the machine they are mounted on, which is called a plough. They are shaped to slice out to a depth and turn the ground over.

The blade is curved rather like say, one half of the convex type anchor, and so these anchors are commonly referred to as plows, purely as a result of cursory observation re the shape, but incorrect, because they are made up of two mirror image blades, fused at their upper edge, forming if anything a wedge, but a wedge, which if you look at it from the pointy end, is shaped such that it does not plough up the bottom, turning it over and out like a farm plough, but rather is shaped so as to continue to try and dive deeper. just as long as there is forward movement through the substrate (bottom).

This latter fact is something Marin never quite seemed to grasp, when he supported the concave (what you are calling scooped), shape as preferable, because he felt something 'streamlined' like the convex fluke would come out through the bottom more easily. He was missing the tendency for that shape to help it dig deeper, as Steve's 'anchor setting videos" in fact show. He was right about one thing, however, and that is those concave (scooped) flukes sure do bring (scoop) up a heap more bottom to dump on your deck or need to be hosed off. Does that answer your question Eric, & others..?
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:43 PM   #97
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Not to brag (well, maybe a little), but I don't believe that there is another 70 lb anchor in the world that could come close to meeting the performance standard that was required for approval aboard a vessel of this size.
Bragging is perfectly appropriate!

I have carried a Fortress in my aft lazarette for a long time. It will be sold with my sailboat and I will likely get another one to take as a stern or reserve anchor for my new boat.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:02 AM   #98
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Hi Peter,
Bedtime .. but you say the SARCA isn't a plough. If it isn't please put the propper label on it so we can classify it w the other anchors.

Yes I remember Marin's engineering expressed opinions. But remember that a concave shape resists movement better than a convex. Perhaps he had that on his mind.
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Old 04-06-2016, 12:13 AM   #99
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Surely the Super Sarca fluke is both concave and convex, depends which side you view it from, top or underneath.
If you take the CQR as a classic example of a plow/plough blade, the SS is nothing like one. It gets closer to a disc plough, except it`s triangular not round, and it operates blade parallel to the surface being "ploughed", not at a right angle, like a disc or blade plough.
Hard to call it a plough imo.
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Old 04-06-2016, 02:40 AM   #100
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Quote:
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Hi Peter,
Bedtime .. but you say the SARCA isn't a plough. If it isn't please put the propper label on it so we can classify it w the other anchors.

Yes I remember Marin's engineering expressed opinions. But remember that a concave shape resists movement better than a convex. Perhaps he had that on his mind.
Courtesy of Anchor Right, this may help Eric...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...o&noredirect=1
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