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Old 07-26-2016, 10:31 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortress Anchors View Post
I have referenced Bob Taylor in past discussions for his extensive scientific anchoring knowledge that he acquired during 45+ years with the US Navy and offshore industry.



Our late company founder kept a small library of his US Navy work and here's a download to a report that Bob did on multiple anchor use:



https://www.dropbox.com/s/cpyumsguo6...83-05.pdf?dl=0





On page 4 ( image below) of this report is a brief summary of different anchoring set ups. When I questioned him recently on using our anchor in a tandem (or piggyback) combination, his comment was:



"The best way to use Fortress and most other anchors with this configuration in tandem is to use option 4 in table 2 of the Tech data Sheet. This allows each anchor to function properly. In reality the rear-most anchor will eventually move into the trough created by the front anchor and dig deeper than it normally could resulting in more than twice single anchor capacity."



gif uploader

Looks like my method is option #3.
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Old 07-27-2016, 10:41 AM   #242
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Pgitug,
Ever consider a wige rope from the Rocna to the Fortress?
Probably would work better but may be a bit user unfriendly deploying and stowing.

Or a higher attach point on the back of the Rocna? That may impede setting of the Rocna if the Fortress sets first. But would allow better penetration for the Rocna However the reverse may be true. A lot of forces and angles involved.
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Old 07-27-2016, 01:06 PM   #243
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I think this is a narrow variation of a Bahamian mooring where each anchor is on its own rode. I will check to make sure.

I found this animated Gif for setting two anchors on a sailing site awhile back.


image upload with preview
In a true Bahamian moor the anchors are set 180 deg. to each other so the boat stays approximately in the same spot as the tide changes.

What that shows is just a standard two anchor set.
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Old 07-27-2016, 01:25 PM   #244
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In a true Bahamian moor the anchors are set 180 deg. to each other so the boat stays approximately in the same spot as the tide changes.
That is what the late E.S. "Mac" Maloney, a local boater who authored "Chapman's Seamanship & Small Boat Handling" for several decades, told me how he deployed two anchors.
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Old 07-27-2016, 01:36 PM   #245
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Setting 2 anchors isn't automatically a Bahamian moor any more that setting a stern anchor.

All 3 are different and for different reasons/uses.
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Old 07-28-2016, 01:15 PM   #246
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How would one actually deploy that (option 4) set-up? Shackle the two anchors (anchor chains) to the main rode, dump it all overboard, back down?

If one anchor sets first (which might it be?), how would one get the other to set? How would one know that had been accomplished?

-Chris
Chris,

The setting protocol is to deploy one anchor (the furthest away), set it and then deploy then other anchor nearby at two fluke lengths distance, set it, and then bring the two lines together.

On a side note, in today's mail I received part one of a report that Practical Sailor did on tandem and Bahamian anchor deployments. Very detailed.

Pgitug, glad to hear that you found an effective way to deploy your two anchors which has held up under extensive real world testing.

Safe anchoring,
Brian
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Old 07-28-2016, 01:30 PM   #247
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all these multiple anchor techniques seems complicated and unnecessary to me. One oversized New Generation anchor with substantial amount of change is all that is needed no complications. No chance of one anchor tripping the other anchor and no tangled chain Appliance retrieval
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Old 07-28-2016, 04:31 PM   #248
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Why an oversized anchor if it's a newer high performance anchor?

With an older anchor w 1/2 or less holding power then the oversized anchor will probably be needed.

The trick to sizing an anchor is IMO good interpolation of the anchor manufacturer's recommendations. I'll bet most are good but many manufacturer's recommendations are based on very different anticipated winds. Some are sized for very light winds and some for 40 knots. This is a situation that requires a little research.
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Old 07-28-2016, 05:07 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortress Anchors View Post
Chris,

The setting protocol is to deploy one anchor (the furthest away), set it and then deploy then other anchor nearby at two fluke lengths distance, set it, and then bring the two lines together.


Hmmm... doesn't sound easy... lotsa guess-work on spacing...

-Chris
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Old 07-28-2016, 08:55 PM   #250
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I prefer the simplicity of one 80 pounder on 12mm chain.

A Fortess f55 and reef anchor live in the lazzaret for backup.

Occasionally we score a bullseye - this time it's a paint can.
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Old 07-31-2016, 12:04 PM   #251
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I prefer the simplicity of one 80 pounder on 12mm chain.

A Fortess f55 and reef anchor live in the lazzaret for backup.

Occasionally we score a bullseye - this time it's a paint can.
Well other than the paint can-----sure, I agree simplicity is the way to go. I posted earlier regarding my recent experience with basically the same setup you have, an 80# Manson Supreme with an all chain rode. Even further, after my experience with Mr. Supreme slipping after almost a 180 wind change and not even setting in another anchorage, I purchased a Fortress 55 which to date remains in its shipping container.

I do believe the Supreme would have reset on its own if I had waited after slipping 40-50'. Instead I used boat power to reset it. Don't understand the other situation where it didn't set at all. If I thought that the Fortress set at 40 degrees (I think that's the mud setting) would hold in all conditions I would be tempted to replace the Supreme. So as I type, I am not convinced that there is any one anchor for all occasions.
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Old 07-31-2016, 02:29 PM   #252
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Quote:
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I prefer the simplicity of one 80 pounder on 12mm chain.

A Fortess f55 and reef anchor live in the lazzaret for backup.

Occasionally we score a bullseye - this time it's a paint can.
Whats that John, 80lb on a 50 tonne 50fter?
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Old 07-31-2016, 03:03 PM   #253
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We brought up the main water line for an island in Panama once with our 150 kg Rocna.

Lucky for us, and the island, we didn't beak it.

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Old 07-31-2016, 03:08 PM   #254
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Foggy wrote;
"So as I type, I am not convinced that there is any one anchor for all occasions."

I think there is .... Super Sacra.

Look at Steve's "anchor setting videos" thread.

Is it the best anchor in the world ..... .? Depends on your needs but it may be the most dependable anchor in the world. Would'nt call it best in a hurricane but if not overly small it may be the best in most all typical anchoring. Just my opinion though.
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Old 07-31-2016, 03:24 PM   #255
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While it has not been truly tested yet this trip, I have been very happy with the performance of my new Sarca Excel. Lots of shore ties and one night with a pretty strong cross breeze. Mud bottom, 3 to 4 to one scope depending on the tide height and wind that is pulling the boat sideways. I have also been very impressed with how quickly it has set. There was only one time we couldn't set it and that was in Pendrell Sound when we tried to back into a small notch in the rock shore. Turns out there was bare rock on the bottom, we could hear the anchor dragging across the rock with nothing to grab onto. Likely the reason there was no one anchored there.
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Old 07-31-2016, 03:25 PM   #256
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Eric-- the problem is that Bruce, Delta, Manson Supreme, Rocna, Spade, Fortress plus a lost count of others claim the title. Getting experience is getting expensive.

Before purchasing another anything I need to find a local "rent-my-anchor" company.
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Old 07-31-2016, 06:56 PM   #257
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Whats that John, 80lb on a 50 tonne 50fter?

Should be 37 tonnes loaded Simi, although I haven't found a lift with a working scale to measure true displacement.

If I was starting again from scratch, I'd probably up the anchor size and add 50 or so metres of chain to the current 80m of 12m.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:08 PM   #258
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Well other than the paint can-----sure, I agree simplicity is the way to go. I posted earlier regarding my recent experience with basically the same setup you have, an 80# Manson Supreme with an all chain rode. Even further, after my experience with Mr. Supreme slipping after almost a 180 wind change and not even setting in another anchorage, I purchased a Fortress 55 which to date remains in its shipping container.

I do believe the Supreme would have reset on its own if I had waited after slipping 40-50'. Instead I used boat power to reset it. Don't understand the other situation where it didn't set at all. If I thought that the Fortress set at 40 degrees (I think that's the mud setting) would hold in all conditions I would be tempted to replace the Supreme. So as I type, I am not convinced that there is any one anchor for all occasions.
I've found that the Manson resets readily Foggy.

In fact I was anchored last night in a river and it reset happily in mud on tidal current of around 2+kn either way. The speed of reset is something that sets it apart from my previous long history using CQRs.

Mind you I've only owned this boat for four years, and no system works every time.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:48 PM   #259
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While it has not been truly tested yet this trip, I have been very happy with the performance of my new Sarca Excel. Lots of shore ties and one night with a pretty strong cross breeze. Mud bottom, 3 to 4 to one scope depending on the tide height and wind that is pulling the boat sideways. I have also been very impressed with how quickly it has set. There was only one time we couldn't set it and that was in Pendrell Sound when we tried to back into a small notch in the rock shore. Turns out there was bare rock on the bottom, we could hear the anchor dragging across the rock with nothing to grab onto. Likely the reason there was no one anchored there.
We had a rare similar experience at the NYE fireworks in Sydney Harbor with the Super. I figured out the bottom like was polished granite, others tried too but no one could set an anchor there, thus the gap which we tried to use. I doubt anything would get a grip and work on a relatively smooth rock shelf.
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Old 07-31-2016, 08:06 PM   #260
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We had a rare similar experience at the NYE fireworks in Sydney Harbor with the Super. I figured out the bottom like was polished granite, others tried too but no one could set an anchor there, thus the gap which we tried to use. I doubt anything would get a grip and work on a relatively smooth rock shelf.

Perhaps it's time for some cross discipline skills training?

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