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Old 09-10-2016, 09:40 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
As to chaff on my nylon line rode I receintly removed 50' of 5/8ths Brait line and substituted 50' of 9/16ths three strand. I plan on doing that every year or two in the future. Most Willard 30's use 1/2" line.
Interestingly, Bob Smith who invented the Danforth anchor was a fan of very light rodes. It was his claim that it reduced the shock loads becasue the rode would stretch. He cruised the Atlantic coast for decades in a 40 foot sailboat with a short length of chain (8-10 feet?) and 1/4 inch nylon rode.
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:24 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by tadhana View Post

Interestingly, Bob Smith who invented the Danforth anchor was a fan of very light rodes. It was his claim that it reduced the shock loads becasue the rode would stretch. He cruised the Atlantic coast for decades in a 40 foot sailboat with a short length of chain (8-10 feet?) and 1/4 inch nylon rode.
Quarter inch!? Might as well use my shoelaces.
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:33 AM   #83
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With trawlers we're very prone to extreme overkill.

I wouldn't go forth w a 1/4" rode but think of the length of rode I could have. Most Willards use 1/2" and I have 5/8ths. What for I suppose I should wonder. And one of my best anchors is a very small Danforth (13lbs). It's easy to say "Ive got a 50lb Super Duper anchor and 400' all chain rode".
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:37 AM   #84
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Fortress only recommends a minimum of 6 feet of chain for every 25 feet of water depth.

They even say shorten up on scope when having trouble setting in soft mud as the chain sinking lower may be reversing the fluke pull.

This is also interesting from the fortress website, often discussed but hadn't seen anyone post it yet...it suggests what hp to use based on boat and horsepower to simulate 30 or 35 knot winds and the estimated pull.
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:47 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
FOG,
It's so shallow out there a combination rode may mean you could anchor most of the time w about 100-125' of chain and 200' of line. You'd not often get any line out so you'd be on all chain w/o having to carry much. And you'd have a lot of options if the engine quit to keep off the beach or rocks.


On a lighter note and to keep this thread alive, may I suggest -

To stay off the beach, have twin engines to go along with your 3 or 4 anchors! Nothing like redundancy.
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:06 AM   #86
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The key to anchoring with very light weight anchors is to remember its a light weight anchoring SYSTEM.

Too heavy an anchor rode causes more problems than the chafe it is resisting .,

Note that 3/8 line takes over 3000lbs to break , hardly what most folks will ever see in a lifetime of over night anchoring.

breaking strength and safe load for nylon rope: Rope DiameterMinimum Breaking StrengthSafe Load
(Safety Factor 12)Weight (in)(mm)(lbf)(kN)(lbf)(kN)(lbm/ft)(kg/m) 3/16 5 880 3.91 73.3 0.326 0.009 0.013 1/4 6 1486 6.61 124 0.551 0.016 0.023 5/16 8 2295 10.2 191 0.851 0.025 0.036 3/8 10 3240 14.4 270 1.20 0.036 0.053 7/16 11 4320 19.2 360 1.60 0.048 0.071 1/2 12 5670 25.2 473 2.10 0.063 0.094 9/16 14 7200 32.0 600 2.67 0.080 0.119 5/8 16 8910 39.6 743 3.30 0.099 0.147 3/4 18 12780 56.8 1070 4.76 0.143 0.213 7/8 22 17280 76.9 1440 6.41 0.195 0.290 1 24 22230 98.9 1850 8.23 0.253 0.377
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Old 09-11-2016, 08:54 AM   #87
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I've never had much faith in light weight anchors, I much prefer an anchor one or two sizes over what the manufacturer calls for especially in high winds with a chain rode. With a heavy rode you might not even need the anchor. LOL. Our navy uses heavy anchors on their large ships.

Just my SSO.
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:21 AM   #88
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[QUOTE=FF;478716]The key to anchoring with very light weight anchors is to remember its a light weight anchoring SYSTEM.

Too heavy an anchor rode causes more problems than the chafe it is resisting .,

Note that 3/8 line takes over 3000lbs to break , hardly what most folks will ever see in a lifetime of over night anchoring.

Exactly! The stretch of the rode mitigates shock loads. This 3/8 might not be appropriate for a storm anchor but for seasonal coastal cruising it makes for a good "system." The same theory applies to dock lines. Heavy dock lines have limited shock absorbing ability and every load on the boat is transferred to the boat cleat and the dock cleat as an impact.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:04 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post


On a lighter note and to keep this thread alive, may I suggest -

To stay off the beach, have twin engines to go along with your 3 or 4 anchors! Nothing like redundancy.
Sunchaser,
Look back in the archives and you'll see I've always been supportive of twin engines. Over and over again. Still think twins are better.
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Old 09-11-2016, 11:18 AM   #90
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Twins have their disadvantages such as fuel and maintenance costs but for those of us that may travel long distances appreciate the redundancy of twins.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:00 PM   #91
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I've never had much faith in light weight anchors, I much prefer an anchor one or two sizes over what the manufacturer calls for especially in high winds with a chain rode. With a heavy rode you might not even need the anchor. LOL. Our navy uses heavy anchors on their large ships.

Just my SSO.
The only anchor I know of that's lightweight as in being aluminum has never performed really well unless it's the Fortress brand. The steel anchors have never been threatened by an aluminum revolution. And I secretly wonder how an exact duplicate of a Fortress would perform. The next revolution could indeed be aluminum. But several (at least) have tried.

Fortress had their small anchor (in the Chesapeke test) penetrate better in one situation and penetration is probably universaly better. But weight dosn't guarantee penetration. The Navy anchor is evidence of that being essentially a bulldozer.

But re your response ... Compared to "old" anchors all these "new" anchors are lightweight .... much smaller/lighter than the older anchors they have to some degree replaced. Will the anchors of the future be lighter/smaller yet? Yes and no IMO. Physics will probably prevent the next seemingly revolutionary anchor development but better anchors still will come to pass. But the old dogs will probably be better in certain ways just like the old anchors are now. I see no "new" anchors on ships. But even there advances are being made.

Bigfish, an anchor is only small or light relative to how big and heavy it needs to be. Anything else is a waste, undesirable and even a sign of paranoia. Every part of a boat should be a certain size, weight ect. Cleats, the bolts or screws that hold them, window glass, hull thickness ect ect. And there are those loaded barge boats that have many many things that are much too heavy. There is a reasonable weight for everything and going to excess puts other things at risk.

I don't recall anyone saying they bought a new anchor and since it had three times the performance they bought an anchor 25% lighter. They almost always buy a heavier anchor. Why? As to weight and strength of things ideally testing should be done w decending (size/weight) of components until failure is achieved. Then it will be known how big or strong something should be. Having a well ballanced and designed boat w an anchor that's twice as big as needed won't upset the apple cart. But a boat w many many things too heavy will definitely make a boat a dog ... that can't swim.

So I strive to keep weight to sensible limits w everything on my boat. I've done a bit of anchoring w small anchors and not had a performance failure due to anchor size or weight. Should I go to a 40lb anchor because some guy on TF says "bigger is better" .... I think not.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:18 PM   #92
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Interestingly, Bob Smith who invented the Danforth anchor was a fan of very light rodes. It was his claim that it reduced the shock loads becasue the rode would stretch. He cruised the Atlantic coast for decades in a 40 foot sailboat with a short length of chain (8-10 feet?) and 1/4 inch nylon rode.
1/4" nylon "might" be strong enough, but how quickly would it chafe through if it wraps around a rock.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:57 PM   #93
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Eric

"Bigfish, an anchor is only small or light relative to how big and heavy it needs to be. Anything else is a waste, undesirable and even a sign of paranoi"

I freely admit I'm paranoid about anchoring and always assume the worst conditions when anchoring at night. For the same reason I have the best medical insurance available. I hope I never need the the limits of product but if I need it I'm happy to have it.

Thanks.
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Old 09-11-2016, 01:03 PM   #94
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2...a 7.5KG Trehorn (euro Bruce clone in SS), and a Fortress FX11. Having had a larger Bruce on my last 35 ft Sailboat, I'm a fan. This little trehorn has never failed to set and hold in 35Knot+ winds. Admittedly I have only a 10Ton boat. Works for me in every condition. It would break my heart to have to cut this SS beauty loose though!

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Old 09-11-2016, 02:13 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsfish View Post
Eric

"Bigfish, an anchor is only small or light relative to how big and heavy it needs to be. Anything else is a waste, undesirable and even a sign of paranoi"

I freely admit I'm paranoid about anchoring and always assume the worst conditions when anchoring at night. For the same reason I have the best medical insurance available. I hope I never need the the limits of product but if I need it I'm happy to have it.

Thanks.
Oh wow .... "Freely admit" ....
Could we have a visual of that?



Heron,
That's a Manson Ray isn't it? Your boat is about the same size as mine. I had a 33lb Claw on Willy ..... but never used it. 7.5kg is 16lb .. right? That's what we had on our Albin25 but my smaller Claw on Willy is 22lbs. It's part of the line-up on board now. It's a no name. Nothing on the anchor anyway.

Cotton,
Yup I should probably ditch the 5/8ths line and get 1/2". But that would be a waste and I just put that down (waste) so I'll pass unless I can actually wear out my 5/8ths Brait.
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Old 09-11-2016, 02:23 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Bigsfish View Post
I've never had much faith in light weight anchors, I much prefer an anchor one or two sizes over what the manufacturer calls for especially in high winds with a chain rode. With a heavy rode you might not even need the anchor. LOL. Our navy uses heavy anchors on their large ships.

Just my SSO.

I am not so sure that our arm forces always use heavy anchors.........Click image for larger version

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Old 09-11-2016, 02:29 PM   #97
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Pgitug

Sorry I should have stated navy large ships.
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Old 09-11-2016, 04:42 PM   #98
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U


Heron,
That's a Manson Ray isn't it? Your boat is about the same size as mine. I had a 33lb Claw on Willy ..... but never used it. 7.5kg is 16lb .. right?
Sorry, I meant to say Trefoil (Temporary Brain infarction!). Not to common here in the US...

Trefoil anchor AISI 316 7.5 kg - Osculati 0110907

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Old 09-11-2016, 09:06 PM   #99
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As to chaff on my nylon line rode I receintly removed 50' of 5/8ths Brait line and substituted 50' of 9/16ths three strand. I plan on doing that every year or two in the future.
I don't see that reducing chafe failure much if at all. Brand new line can be chafed through quickly in bad conditions. If you are purely a calm day yachtsman, then maybe so.
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:05 PM   #100
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[QUOTE=Nomad Willy;478813
Fortress had their small anchor (in the Chesapeke test) penetrate better in one situation and penetration is probably universaly better. But weight dosn't guarantee penetration. The Navy anchor is evidence of that being essentially a bulldozer.

Eric,
Maybe that's why there is a Navy anchor on my boat. The engine is the same
one that Caterpillar put in their D-9 bulldozer.

Ted
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