Had to cut my anchor free - how to prevent this in the future?

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Toocoys and I have the same boat, and I think we both have gassers, 454's. Weighs 26,000 on paper, more like 28,000 loaded and occupied. The windage is brutal broadside (in my opinion) because of the high profile, even if we open all the windows on the upper helm. Tall boat -- that's the price you pay for 7+ foot ceilings in the salon. As long as I'm confident and assertive on the throttles though, it seems pretty responsive to me. I don't have thrusters and I don't have the skill to walk a boat sideways but it's always felt like it has plenty of power -- I just don't have the talent to use all of it to its max potential. I remember the Old Lyme railroad bridge kept us in a holding pattern on a very windy day a few years ago and I was able to hold position just fine for what seemed like an eternity, high wind and hard current.

One thing I have noticed, maybe this will help, the dead-slow arc on my throttles is very long. I don't remember the Carver (or a 65 Searay I ran once) being that way, it was a smooth (linear) rise in the RPM's as you moved the throttles up. On the Mainship I have to move the throttles nearly halfway up before I get out of the dead slow zone and hit the power band/higher RPM's. Maybe it's just some quirk of my boat, but I assumed they're designed that way on purpose to allow very fine movements at slow speeds, then you hit the power band and it roars to life. At first I thought my throttle cables were loose but they're not. Once you get used to it it's very handy in tight marinas -- as long as you have no wind. I can adjust the RPM's by 25, 50, 100 very carefully, spin the boat around on an axis, etc. Takes practice though, you have to get a feel for where the higher RPM's and power start to kick in the throttle arc.
 
Has anyone had to resort to manually attaching a tag line to the forward point of the anchor, and manually pulling it up? Did it work?

A few concerns I have:

  1. Were you able to feel around in the muck/sand to get the line through the anchor hole, or wrangle it in some fashion with limited Vis while under the water?
  2. Were you able to pull it up manually? Due to the suction affect and weight, I am thinking a small boat or dinghy would be needed to provide the required force.

I know some folks float a line and small bouy off their anchor to show its position to other boaters, and perhaps for retrieval concerns. I don't want to do that, just curious if the above is practical.
 

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toocoys said:
It's a Power Winch, although I'm not sure what size. It looks like this.

If you look at the wheel (which I think you are referring to as the gypsy), there are the places for the chain links to seat themselves. between those there is a small gap. The rope would get caught in that gap.
Click to expand...
Yes, the gypsy is that wheel with a pattern designed to match and accommodate chain links it draws in or lets out.
It`s hard to see where the rope was getting jammed but if it was not staying in the gypsy groove something was wrong with the gypsy gripping the rope.
Another thing that will stop retrieve is if the rode (the anchor line) is stacked up in the anchor locker so that no more rode can fit there.It can"pyramid" in there and sometimes needs a direct whack to drop down and let more rode in. But being unable to break the anchor out by hand etc goes against that as a cause, and in fact colors the whole question of what went wrong elsewhere.
Auscan may well be right about the rope size, maybe try different diameter rope to see what pulls through well.
kthoennes with the same boat may have the same windlass. See if you can find a size marking on yours, and PM him to compare what he has for rope and chain.
Once you make some progress try an anchoring and retrieve somewhere you hope has a safe fair bottom. You need fresh rope anyway, and more chain than you had. A combination will require a chain/rope splice you might need help with, or you could just go all chain and avoid that and other issues. You don`t have the bit of chain which (presumably) fitted the gypsy,so try removing the gypsy to take to the chain supplier, and get advice on the rope size too.
 
kthoennes said:
Toocoys and I have the same boat, and I think we both have gassers, 454's. Weighs 26,000 on paper, more like 28,000 loaded and occupied. The windage is brutal broadside (in my opinion) because of the high profile, even if we open all the windows on the upper helm. Tall boat -- that's the price you pay for 7+ foot ceilings in the salon. As long as I'm confident and assertive on the throttles though, it seems pretty responsive to me. I don't have thrusters and I don't have the skill to walk a boat sideways but it's always felt like it has plenty of power -- I just don't have the talent to use all of it to its max potential. I remember the Old Lyme railroad bridge kept us in a holding pattern on a very windy day a few years ago and I was able to hold position just fine for what seemed like an eternity, high wind and hard current.

One thing I have noticed, maybe this will help, the dead-slow arc on my throttles is very long. I don't remember the Carver (or a 65 Searay I ran once) being that way, it was a smooth (linear) rise in the RPM's as you moved the throttles up. On the Mainship I have to move the throttles nearly halfway up before I get out of the dead slow zone and hit the power band/higher RPM's. Maybe it's just some quirk of my boat, but I assumed they're designed that way on purpose to allow very fine movements at slow speeds, then you hit the power band and it roars to life. At first I thought my throttle cables were loose but they're not. Once you get used to it it's very handy in tight marinas -- as long as you have no wind. I can adjust the RPM's by 25, 50, 100 very carefully, spin the boat around on an axis, etc. Takes practice though, you have to get a feel for where the higher RPM's and power start to kick in the throttle arc.
Click to expand...



Ok so I'm not crazy! LOL You understand my pain.
 
ranger42c said:
Were you alone? Couldn't send crew forward, or have crew take the helm?



-Chris
Click to expand...



I was not alone, I had others on board, but I'm the only one that knows how to drive our boat. And I don't say that as a brag, but literally, I am the only person that was on board that can drive my boat.

My partner doesn't know how, and doesn't have any interest in learning because the fear is too overwhelming for him. He does help when I give him clear instructions, but usually it's not this difficult.

The last time that we anchored, we weren't affected by the wind, and I was able to maneuver the boat forward, pull in slack, go forward, pull in slack, and actually able to pull the anchor up without ever laying hands on the rode.

This time the wind, and the stress of having everyone on board got to me.
 
On "GOTCHA" which is our 80,000 pound 50' Alaskan trawler. We us a steel CLAW anchor that is 176 pounds with 400' of 1/2" chain backed up with 100' of 1" nylon rode that can be cut off if need be. I know this MAY be a little large for your boat, the CLAW anchors will hold in almost anything. Also they have place to install a trip line so they can be pulled out backwards.
 

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fgarriso said:
On "GOTCHA" which is our 80,000 pound 50' Alaskan trawler. We us a steel CLAW anchor that is 176 pounds with 400' of 1/2" chain backed up with 100' of 1" nylon rode that can be cut off if need be. I know this MAY be a little large for your boat, the CLAW anchors will hold in almost anything. Also they have place to install a trip line so they can be pulled out backwards.
Click to expand...


I had a 44lb bruce anchor that was given to me. I thought I'd give it a try so I took the smaller danforth off and put the bruce on. I dropped it back in the water in my slip and proceeded to attempt to raise it right there in my slip.

The 44lb bruce was apparently too heavy for my windlass as it would not lift it.

Unless there is something wrong with my windlass.
 
Which now that I'm looking at the specs on this power winch on the West Marine website, it has a maximum pull of 775lbs. So it SHOULD be able to lift the 44lb anchor in my slip shouldn't it?

How do I troubleshoot it?
 
Your windlass needs to be rated for the weight of the anchor and chain plus at least 50%. Our windless will pull the boat with the anchor set.
 
:) Ask West Marine why your 775# windless will not lift 44#:)
 
kthoennes said:
One thing I have noticed, maybe this will help, the dead-slow arc on my throttles is very long. I don't remember the Carver (or a 65 Searay I ran once) being that way, it was a smooth (linear) rise in the RPM's as you moved the throttles up. On the Mainship I have to move the throttles nearly halfway up before I get out of the dead slow zone and hit the power band/higher RPM's. Maybe it's just some quirk of my boat, but I assumed they're designed that way on purpose to allow very fine movements at slow speeds, then you hit the power band and it roars to life.
Click to expand...

What kind of controls are those? I had Teleflex setup in a previous boat and there was definitely a throttle curve/throw-speed factor. As in, at dead stop if you slammed the throttle there'd be a 1-2-are-you-sure? delay. As in, ooops someone banged into the throttle arm accidentally... But once you were underway at speed there response was faster.

The current boat has Twin Disc controls and has four modes of control (Cruise, Sync, Express and Troll). Each changes the way the arc of the throttle calls for RPMs. Cruise is linear... power... NOW. Sync matches engine RPMs and can be used in either Cruise or Express. Express has a more gradual curve. It's gentler to use than Cruise, which is helpful for docking, but takes some getting used to compared to previous controls. Troll slips the transmissions a lot more, allowing for much slower speeds (and I haven't had any need for this).

Your description of 'halfway up' sounds a lot like Express mode on the Twin Disc. Cruise is harsh if all I want to do is move the boat slightly while at a dead stop. It's enough to give anyone standing a reason to find hand-holds if I engage it. But Express seems to need a LOT of throttle arm throw to get the boat to move. I can bump it with Cruise, very quickly and carefully (to not have anyone fall down) or use Express and make what seem like really big swings of the throttles and leave them there for longer. Which is tricky with a heavy boat, big props and lots of diesel torque. Any power you dump into the wheels has to be gentle, otherwise the boat WILL keep moving more than you might want.

A discussion with a Twin Disc engineer at a boat show was enlightening. He pointed out that many variables can be tweaked to adjust how the controls deliver power. At some point I want to have them on-board to fine tune some of it for me.

So I'm wondering if there may be adjustments that could help make the throttles more useful for you?
 
toocoys said:
Basically all I did was point the bow into the wind, released the windlass (I have a Power Winch which is a free fall), and then I just let the wind blow us backwards. The anchor dug and set itself.

Since I have to buy a new anchor, I'm thinking of going with a Mantus. But what is the best type of anchor for clay/mud/silt/pudding bottom?
Click to expand...

Your method of setting would be fine for the Mantus, or any of the more modern types. Usually not so good for a Danforth, which makes me all the more suspicious you were well and truly fouled, and nothing would break it free. Motoring slowly forward over the anchor position, with the rode tied off should alway break a Danforth free, albeit with possibly a bent shank.

You might want to also consider a Sarca anchor, either the Super or Excel, both now available in the US I believe. From past personal experience, excellent anchors, and the Super Sarca has a break free trip mechanism almost unique, and might have saved the day in your case. :thumb:
Super SARCA Anchors - Anchor Right Australia
 
Note, windlasses do require maintenance. Most have some sort of clutch arrangement. It's possible for a windlass to slip if it hasn't been maintained properly. Or if the parts are sufficiently worn to prevent it from delivering the proper amount of torque.

Someone during prior ownership made a mess of our current Maxwell 2500. Basically a combination of wrong parts and wrong re-assembly steps. Using some v2 parts and v2 assembly instructions with a v1 unit. It works, but not as effectively as it should. The chain splitter was missing (leading to a jammed windlass and a blown fuse, and discovery of a defective breaker). I finally got the correct parts and plan to get it properly sorted again. A side effect of it mis-assembly is the clutch won't stay tight, leading to slippage. A simple twist of the top regains enough tension to get things going again, but it's annoying to have it happen during a trying retrieval.

I can't recall what windlass we had on the old boat. It was also a vertical unit, but had most of the workings hidden under the deck, unlike the current one. Might also have been a Maxwell, RC series, perhaps? Doesn't matter. The rode on that was 25' of chain and the rest nylon. It would also slip after a while, necessitating digging out a handle with a big hex key on it to tighten it up.
 
Most simple teleflex type throttle linkages can be adjusted for sensitivity by changing the attachment point on the engine throttle arm. The engine throttle arm usually has several points to attach the teleflex cable. Attaching the teleflex cable closer to the pivot point makes the throttle control more sensitive and decreases the movement required at the helm.
It's a 5 minute job to change this.
 
toocoys said:
I have no idea what brand they are, but mine are just like his. You have to push them all the way to Canada before power engages.
Click to expand...

Red round knobs and a chrome mount? Teleflex Morse MT3 cable style maybe?
 
Our previous owner was a robotics engineer and he was meticulous with manuals and paperwork (thanks Dave!). It's a Lofrans Project 1000. Designed for 8mm -5/16"HT - 5/16"BBB chain and 5/8" rope. According to the manual there were four possible gipsy options, although one was European (German) so that one seems unlikely. The standard seems to be #08101, 5/16 chain and 5/8 rope.

Wkearney99, thanks very much for that post, that's very interesting. Until I learned our current boat I assumed all throttles were linear until I finally got it and the light went on in my head. After our 350 mile trip from Newport to Albany I finally developed a good feel for what I call the dead-slow arc and the power arc. There's a very slight bump, a notch I can feel at the beginning off the power arc, and both throttles have that feel, so I do think it's a purposeful design thing and not a kink in a throttle cable for example, ha. It did throw me off until I got used to it, but now I find it very useful -- wide throws while I'm docking, but then a lot more careful once I feel that subtle bump or notch in the throttle arc. I have no manuals or paperwork on the throttles and the boat is 60 miles away but I'll check next time I'm down there.

I can tell you there's no delay in engine responsiveness that I've noticed, it's immediate either way, but an inch of movement at the bottom of the arc will move the RPM's by say 50, and an inch movement in the power band will kick the RPM's by a couple hundred or more. I do wish I had had a manual on them or the previous owner told me how the throttles behaved because I thought the boat or the engines were just badly sluggish for the longest time and I'd get very annoyed. I remember we got pinned against a dock on a windy day in Newport and I kept powering up and nothing seemed to happen, so I got frustrated and pushed them way up hard and suddenly the boat jumped like a mustang. Scratched my hull. Sorry Westwind Marina.
 
Toocoys has sexier chrome knobs than I do, mine are just plain black, but yeah, those are the throttles. (Great, now I have throttle knob envy.)
 
Thread drift I know, but here's another hilarious thing. I should post this in the thread about the dumbest thing you've ever done on you boat, although it was kind of harmless dumbness (this time). I see both our boats have trim tab controls. My dad runs boats like rented mules, he beats them like rental cars, and kept playing with the trim tab controls at WOT. They didn't seem to do a thing, no responsiveness or affect on the hull angle at all, couldn't feel a thing, so he kept saying the trim tabs must not work. Of course you can't really get the boat to plane anyway, it's just not a fast boat period -- but when we had it pulled at the end of the trip in Coeymans on the Hudson -- turned out there were no trim tabs there at all. I had just never paid attention in the boat yard in RI. Mainship installed switches on the helm, and they put a trim tab switch on the electrical panel -- but trim tabs were apparently an option so you may or may not actually have them. Do you know Toocoys, do you actually have trim tabs, or just phantom switches that don't do anything??
 
kthoennes said:
...so I got frustrated and pushed them way up hard and suddenly the boat jumped like a mustang. Scratched my hull. Sorry Westwind Marina.
Click to expand...


...glad I'm not the only one!!


I have all the manuals that came with my boat. I even have the embroidered Mainship leather briefcase they came in. I'll see if there is something on the shifts and try to get you a copy of it.
 
If it's any consolation, the Coast Guard had to cut loose a Fortress after hanging off it in a blow. My Ultra is also a burying anchor like your Danforth, and to get it up sometimes I have to get on short scope directly over the anchor, then let the rocking of the boat loosen the grip before bringing it on board. If you can't maneuver so you are directly over the anchor, you'll be hard pressed to break it free.
 
kthoennes said:
Do you know Toocoys, do you actually have trim tabs, or just phantom switches that don't do anything??
Click to expand...


I have trim tabs. They are built into the hull, just above my surveyors shoulder.

However, in addition to the trim tab switches, I have a helm switch that powers them. I have to make sure I have power supplied with the main switch, before I attempt to use the rocker switches.
 

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To thread-jack a bit, any recommendations for a no-maintenance knife to keep on board for such emergencies? Ideally I'd put something like this right up there in a bow locker, not squirreled away in a drawer somewhere. Oh, sure, any old cheapie would probably suffice but I'd rather not incur further technical debt with something that has to be continuously replaced/serviced/cleaned.
 
This might be a silly idea, but for those of us who use all chain rodes, has anyone used shorter sections of chain, say 50 feet, joined together with short sections of some sort of high strength fiber line. Would Dyneema work for something like that? I'm thinking that for situations where it became necessary to cut your anchor loose, maybe you could cut one of the soft links and reduce the amount of chain you'd sacrifice in the process.

Just spitballing.
 
A trip line tied to the anchor crown with a floating ball would have solved the problem in seconds.

Perhaps used for the replacement?

NO anchor windlass will rip the anchor from the bottom , unless its huge.
Powering on very short scope into the wind is the usual technique.
 
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