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Old 09-13-2015, 11:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
You guys have created the problem of yourselves by over-thinking it all, and reading too much fine print. When do you last break and anchor chain or shackle..? Ok, Marin might come up with an example, but by and large, really...how common is it..? I've never heard of it. Just get the biggest sucker that fits through the hole in the chain, and don't bother about what the freaking breaking strain is. Just sleep tight. I'm sorry, you US types are sooooo anal...really...

PS. I meant in the Freudian sense, of course...although having looked at the toilet paper thread...I dunno...
Well Peter hopefully you are not serious. Buying a shackle of the same strength as the chain that it connects is not anal it is good engineering. If good engineering is anal then I confess my goal is to be anal. LOL

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Larry, that is exactly what I am attempting to do.

The titanium shackle listed earlier is strong enough but it is not large enough to fit my anchor, a #7 Super Sarca, the shank is a little over 3/4" thick. The jaw on the largest titanium shackle is a little under 3/4".

Now looking at Crosby shackles. The strengths look good, but I will have to use two because if I get one big enough to fit over the shank of the anchor then it is to big to fit the chain. Frustrating as I would like to just use one shackle. I guess if I was using a smaller anchor or a larger chain it would not be as much of an issue.
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Old 09-13-2015, 12:07 PM   #22
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I'm sorry, you US types are sooooo anal...really...

PS. I meant in the Freudian sense, of course...although having looked at the toilet paper thread...I dunno...
Very funny! (And TRUE!)
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Old 09-13-2015, 12:11 PM   #23
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The inside width for 5/16 G4 chain is a half inch, so a 7/16 pin will fit fine; I wonder what the OP really bought.

healhustler is spot on about Miami Cordage, great place for your line and chain and accessories needs.
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Old 09-13-2015, 12:30 PM   #24
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When do you last break and anchor chain or shackle..? Ok, Marin might come up with an example....
The only instance I've ever read about is in Earl Hinz's book on anchoring and mooring (I believe). In talking about the catenary in chain he used a photo of a Coast Guard vessel at anchor trying to stay off a lee shore in a very nasty storm or hurricane. The chain was bar tight and eventually broke. But I don't remember if the chain itself broke or something in the deck hardware broke or if the story didn't even say.

But unless an anchor is caught on something unyielding on the bottom I suspect it will drag or simply come out under the pressure of a recreational cruiser before the anchor shackle broke even if the shackle is rated lower than the chain.
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Old 09-13-2015, 12:30 PM   #25
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...The inside width for 5/16 G4 chain is a half inch, so a 7/16 pin will fit fine...
Yup. Here's the spec from Peerless, the parent company of Acco chain which West Marine sells, I think. Inside diameter is 1/2". The Crosby or 1st Chain Supply shackle should fit.

Peerless Industrial Group :: Marine Chain and Accessories :: ACCO Marine Chain :: ACCO Windlass Chains :: ACCO G43 Domestic High Test ISO Chain :: 500140502
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:58 PM   #26
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Galvanized shackles are stronger than Stainless. The one in the picture looks SS. For higher working load you have to go the galvanized.
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:31 AM   #27
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Titanium shackles? Not the exotic metal it was, I have 2 titanium cased watches and there are high end titanium bicycles.
Ronstan, in Australia, make good quality ss shackles with high ratings. I bought one as the slider for the shank of my Sarca. I believe Ronstan is available in the US; before the AU$ tanked a friend bought Ronstan parts shipping incl cheaper than he could here.
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Old 09-14-2015, 03:14 AM   #28
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If you are using a Crosby shackle it will be built on either a 5 or a 6 to one safety factor. In 40 years of working with cranes I have seen a grossly overloaded Crosby bend but never seen one break.
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Old 09-14-2015, 07:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
You guys have created the problem of yourselves by over-thinking it all, and reading too much fine print. When do you last break and anchor chain or shackle..? Ok, Marin might come up with an example, but by and large, really...how common is it..? I've never heard of it. Just get the biggest sucker that fits through the hole in the chain, and don't bother about what the freaking breaking strain is. Just sleep tight. I'm sorry, you US types are sooooo anal...really...

PS. I meant in the Freudian sense, of course...although having looked at the toilet paper thread...I dunno...
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:21 AM   #30
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Thanks BruceK for the tip on Ronstan.


We have a winner. Ronstan RF637 exceeds the ratings of G4 chain, has a jaw wide enough to fit my Sarca anchor and the pin is 3/8" so it fits easily through the 5/16" chain. I can now attach the anchor with only one shackle which is what I wanted to do. The less failure points the better.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:52 AM   #31
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Larry is correct, find a supplier that serves commercial customers. I maintained an all chain mooring for over twenty years for our sailboat and only purchased shackles, etc from Marine Supply and Oil on Riberia St. St. Augustine. They supplied the shrimp boat fleet and the shackles had to be the best quality, bad news travels fast, and the shrimpers lives and gear required the best quality. Beware of any shackles made in China, I don't remember the name of the shackles I bought but the pins where painted orange and they would outlast the 3/8 chain I used on the mooring. The mooring and the boat rode out several tropical storms and near misses from hurricanes.

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Old 09-15-2015, 12:42 AM   #32
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Thanks BruceK for the tip on Ronstan.
We have a winner. Ronstan RF637 exceeds the ratings of G4 chain..
Glad they are available, not cheap but a well regarded old Aussie brand. I`m guessing there was a bloke called Ron, and a bloke called Stan who set it up.
I sent you a PM re setting up your Sarca.
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Old 09-15-2015, 06:36 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by READY2GO View Post
Thanks BruceK for the tip on Ronstan.


We have a winner. Ronstan RF637 exceeds the ratings of G4 chain, has a jaw wide enough to fit my Sarca anchor and the pin is 3/8" so it fits easily through the 5/16" chain. I can now attach the anchor with only one shackle which is what I wanted to do. The less failure points the better.
Yes, I was kidding about about the anal thing, Ready2go, but only sorta. However, I hate to be a bit of a kill-joy here, but I sincerely hope this final shackle is not, repeat not, a bow shackle, because those were the sorts of illustrations folk were putting up, but unless Rex of Anchorright, makers of Sarca, have had a huge change of heart, this crucial shackle must not be a bow shackle for the whole Super Sarca thing to work as designed. However, Bruce knows that, so if you got the one he suggested, then you should be ok.

Oh yeah...PS...sort of...now I'm going to really p*** you off, but if I'd realised you were discussing a #7 Super Sarca, and for a 36 ft boat, I would have recommended 1/2 inch chain, or in our part of the world 10mm chain, from the get go, then getting a shackle to fit would have been much easier. I was wondering why it became such an issue..? I realise (now) you have bought the chain already, but is there any chance they might take it back and swap up after refund to 1/2 inch..? Sorry, but you didn't spell out what the anchor was. I have a 34 ft boat, with #6 Super Sarca, so I know a bit of what I speak, and I have 10mm (~ 1/2 in) chain and would not really like to have it any lighter. Just a thought. The chain is still new...right..? I hope...otherwise forget I said anything...
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Old 09-15-2015, 08:04 AM   #34
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Yes, I was kidding about about the anal thing, Ready2go, but only sorta. However, I hate to be a bit of a kill-joy here, but I sincerely hope this final shackle is not, repeat not, a bow shackle, because those were the sorts of illustrations folk were putting up, but unless Rex of Anchorright, makers of Sarca, have had a huge change of heart, this crucial shackle must not be a bow shackle for the whole Super Sarca thing to work as designed. However, Bruce knows that, so if you got the one he suggested, then you should be ok.

Oh yeah...PS...sort of...now I'm going to really p*** you off, but if I'd realised you were discussing a #7 Super Sarca, and for a 36 ft boat, I would have recommended 1/2 inch chain, or in our part of the world 10mm chain, from the get go, then getting a shackle to fit would have been much easier. I was wondering why it became such an issue..? I realise (now) you have bought the chain already, but is there any chance they might take it back and swap up after refund to 1/2 inch..? Sorry, but you didn't spell out what the anchor was. I have a 34 ft boat, with #6 Super Sarca, so I know a bit of what I speak, and I have 10mm (~ 1/2 in) chain and would not really like to have it any lighter. Just a thought. The chain is still new...right..? I hope...otherwise forget I said anything...

Peter, half inch is way over kill for for a 36' boat, my 47' has 3-8's and we do just fine. Putting any amount of 1/2 in the bow of a 36' boat will most likely make it nose down in the water which is by the best when you run into weather. All IMO.
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Old 09-15-2015, 08:58 AM   #35
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Oliver you better get back to math class. If I read this correctly the op bought 5/16ths g40 which is more than adequate for his needs and happens to be around 8mm. 10 mm is closer to 3/8ths than 1/2", which is roughly 13 mm. As stated previously just find the commercial galvanized screw pin anchor shackles with the orange pins and don't forget to mouse them with seizing wire.




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Old 09-15-2015, 09:15 AM   #36
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Ed, I was going off the numbers Peter provided and didn't cross check his numbers, but yes 5/16 is a good size for the OP's boat. 1/2 (or if he really meant 3/8's) as peter suggested is way overkill, even for my boat.
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:30 AM   #37
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Ed, I was going off the numbers Peter provided and didn't cross check his numbers, but yes 5/16 is a good size for the OP's boat. 1/2 (or if he really meant 3/8's) as peter suggested is way overkill, even for my boat.
I guess it depends how much you have of it. For our boating, I have 50 metres (about 170'), which is plenty, as I have never needed it all out...ever, but our anchorages are seldom over 30 feet deep, most often less, and the weight of chain means 3:1 is nearly always enough. If in doubt, I use 5:1. But it has no effect on trim, especially as most of my tankage is well aft. But yeah...I guess 5/16 is probably ok, especially if you're in deeper anchorages. And yes, my equating 10mm with 1/2'' was just a rough guess. 3/8" is nearer 10mm, for sure. So Oliver's chain is essentially what I have. Maybe I'm the one being anal, over the chain, that is..? But I still like that size, even for my boat, which is 9 tonne.
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:32 AM   #38
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Just yanking your chain Oliver. The orange pin shackles are grade b rated and have a 6:1 safety margin. Going one size up usually isn't a problem for most chains. 3/8ths are rated for 24000 lbs straight line pull.


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Old 09-16-2015, 12:28 PM   #39
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I guess it depends how much you have of it. For our boating, I have 50 metres (about 170'), which is plenty, as I have never needed it all out...ever, but our anchorages are seldom over 30 feet deep, most often less, and the weight of chain means 3:1 is nearly always enough. If in doubt, I use 5:1.
Um. Guessing your anchor lead is 4' out of the water. And you have a 10' tidal range. With no surge you can anchor in a maximum of 20' at MLLW to have 5:1 at high tide. And that's if the last link is at the windlass and the windlass is sitting at the tip of the bow.

Worse, that 20' could limit you close to shore. At low tide you're going to have a swing diameter of 370' feet (guessing at the trig - walking in the woods at the moment) where no part of the bottom can be higher than your draft.

And if there's any surge...
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Old 09-17-2015, 06:26 AM   #40
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I appreciate your concern, but maybe I should have been more precise. In our boating area of Moreton Bay, we mostly anchor in 2m-4m, and the tidal range is on average only 2.0-2.5m - King tide 2.9m. In fact the water depth of 7m under us in our marina is deeper than most of the waters we traverse in our part of the Southern Bay. If we were going more open coastal, I'd double what chain we have for sure.
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