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Old 07-30-2015, 11:21 AM   #21
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Thanks for the background info, Hollywood...as you know, sometimes people can display strong opinions around here without any real experience to back it up. Yours appears to have some serious weight to it. Duly noted. Thanks again,

Murray
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Old 07-30-2015, 11:44 AM   #22
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People tend to emulate other people. Most tend to think others are smarter than they are. Especially people w specific experience.

A new fisherman is surrounded by fishermen w more experience and knowledge about fishing .. and of course fishing boats. Old fishermen are regarded almost like gods and younger or newer fishermen fall over themselves trying to emulate them. Until recently (40 years ago in the fisherman's world) fishboat anchors were like the dreadnought but people that made fishing gear started to make anchors .. Forfjords. And they became popular. Fishermen were not poor in those days if they good businessmen and were not lazy. When the fishermen did get poor (about 25+ years ago) they bought anchors that were cheap .. and much like the Forfjord. They still almost worship the Forfjord but get a Claw mostly because they are poor and big Forfjords are expensive. They still worship the Forfjord but Claws will be found on about 1/3 of the fleet. And there are about 15 boats in Craig using the Dreadnoughts (older than the Forfjord) .. assumed to be survivors. Never seen a newer anchor like a roll bar anchor on a fishboat. Even the little charter fishing boats for tourists have Claws.

Trawlermen are somewhat like fishermen. Most bigger trawlers are owned by boaters that have moved up via 2' itus over the years. They appear to be very experienced often often are. And they have disposable money and can buy any anchor they want. The younger and/or less experienced see his anchor and think or know he's got lots of experience and knows what is best. Of course what is best is rather vague to the guru as well so he gets the anchor that the guy or guys that HE looks up to has. And that anchor for years was the Bruce .. now it's the Rocna and those that look like it. But already evolution is having it's way. The roll bar anchor has it's limits in the marketplace and perhaps otherwise so for those that need to be seen w the latest (a huge chunk of our population) are already looking at the descendents of the roll bar anchors like the Excel, Vulcan, Boss and others.

So it's mostly a matter of what's cool. And to fishermen it's the Forfjord.
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Old 07-30-2015, 12:08 PM   #23
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The local chandlery got in a bunch of Rocnas and whatever the tractor seat looking one is recently. In fact they used them to prop open the door so you couldn't miss them. I asked about them. The owner had taken one out and tested it on a weekend cruise. He swapped it back out for his claw. Why? Expense. He said he didn't have $350 to throw away. He also mentioned that I worked in the oil patch and my boat should have one...

Anchors are semi-disposable around here. Generally speaking to anchor in a sheltered area here means hidden in a cove. If you are hidden in a cove, you are likely over the top of an old logging show or booming ground. It could be howling forty and most prudent mariners would be home or tucked safely in a little nook. So in a way a good storm anchor around here is one that will hookup on an old bulldozer track or bundle of wire rope. Just don't expect to get it back. Trees on shore work well too.

He sells a lot of claws. Several a week in the summer to transiting boats who have lost theirs.

Murry, I'd consider just getting a ridiculous sized cheap lewmar claw and be done with it. Or move closer to these guy who throw away or use anchors as garden art...

Sometimes the enemy of the best is good enough.
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:34 PM   #24
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Excellent excellent post Spy.

A Lewmar Claw for my boat (33lbs) is $315.
A Manson Supreme (25lbs) is $314.

$175 difference.

I have a 33# Lewmar and I'm quite sure I'm going to get a 25lb MS not too far down the road. Not through experimenting w my 15lb MS.
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:52 PM   #25
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Excellent excellent post Spy.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:07 PM   #26
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A Lewmar Claw for my boat (33lbs) is $315.
A Manson Supreme (25lbs) is $314.
$175 difference.

??

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Old 07-30-2015, 04:45 PM   #27
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What's the question about?

Do you think I should have compared anchors of equal weight .. or what?
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:26 PM   #28
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??

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New math....
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:45 PM   #29
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Excellent excellent post Spy.

A Lewmar Claw for my boat (33lbs) is $315.
A Manson Supreme (25lbs) is $314.

$175 difference.

I have a 33# Lewmar and I'm quite sure I'm going to get a 25lb MS not too far down the road. Not through experimenting w my 15lb MS.

Can you show your work for your above math problem Eric?
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:10 PM   #30
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MATH PROBLEM ?

314 - 139 = 175. Seems I got that one right.

You must be concerned about my saying the Willard will require a 25lb MS and a 33lb Claw. I did not look up what the manufacturers recomendations were for my size boat. Is that the problem?

I've been using a 15lb MS on my 30' boat w sucess but not in a gale. Every time I get in a gale I use my modified XYZ (18lbs) reduced two days ago to 15lbs. Most Claws on 30' boats are 22lbs. I have a 22lb Claw and have used it also but like the MS not in a gale. If you want to know what an anchor will do in a gale the only fairly reasonable place to look is in the anchor tests. Asking other boaters almost always dos'nt count. Almost never do boaters put as much tension on a rode as they do in most anchor tests. Very high loadings is the only way to determine high holding power performance. But I digress.

If these numbers are suspected not to be correct consider any other anchor weight re the two anchors mentioned and you'll find that for a 30' boat in Northern BC those numbers are not questionable. I'll be happy to discuss it though.

Sounds like your trying to trip me up Craig. Instead of hiding it bring out the "math problem" for me to address.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:25 PM   #31
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Eric, it`s a typo. You wrote the Lewmar price as $315, and the Manson as $314. I`m guessing the Lewmar should have been $139. I was thinking the differential was in the weight, but it`s just a typo. I think.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:42 PM   #32
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OMG how could I have done that?

Well I did. Sorry guys. Better get serious w my proof reading.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:55 PM   #33
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Spy makes a good point about foul bottoms in this region and it's why we almost always use a stout trip line when we're anchoring in those waters.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:57 PM   #34
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Thanks Steve, those are good points, particularly the last one and this one (which I'll look into);



Here's our bow configuration. (The curved pipe & hose in Badger's bow where the storm anchor will go is a chafe guard for the bow line).

The happy path of least resistance would see a storm anchor nestled in under the anchor pulpit with no modifications needed other than a new windlass.
Murray
Here is our pulpit with a 20kg Bruce replaced with a #5 Excel(22kg), sorry these are the only photos I have of the Bruce. Very happy with the way the Excel sits on the pulpit.......
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:14 PM   #35
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Murray
Here is our pulpit with a 20kg Bruce replaced with a #5 Excel(22kg), sorry these are the only photos I have of the Bruce. Very happy with the way the Excel sits on the pulpit.......
Oh man...just look at that downward diving tip
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:37 PM   #36
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Very nice installation Mike.
Minimal room used on the deck and minimal overhang beyond the bow.
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:48 PM   #37
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At first I thought I had a Forfjord, but then found "Davis" and "Seahook 100" written on it. It does look like a Forfjord though. It tucked into the bow nicely without adding to LOA so I intended to keep it.

While in the PNW I had trouble setting it a few times, but not often enough to think it was an issue. Then, back in Australia and attempting to anchor in a section of Moreton Bay with thick seagrass on the bottom I simply could not get it to hold at all. So out came the spare anchor, a two-piece alloy Sarca Excel. I rigged it and set it immediately. Since then the Excel has continued to set quickly, and deal with tide and current changes without any problems at all. So now the Excel is the primary anchor. It sits in the bow roller quite well but does increase LOA by a foot.

At present the Davis is sitting on the foredeck, but it can't stay there. Were I still in the PNW or some other location where losing an anchor is a risk then I would find someway of keeping it on board. But here in Queensland I'll never use it so it could yet become garden art.
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:05 AM   #38
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Last summer I modified the Fordjorn by sharpening the flucks point and sides and making the head two inches higher so the flucks are angled down more. Also ground out the head so the shank has a larger angle to moveup down before pulling the flucks up out.

I did dry land testing by pulling the anchor be hind the pick up. It dugand set quickly on dry hard dirt. Have not actually achored with it yet being as we do not anchor. 5 times in 20 years. We are confirmed live aboard dock queen.
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Old 07-31-2015, 10:29 AM   #39
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Sounds like you should go shopping for a higher performance anchor or a bigger anchor winch. I'll sell you a reel winch that should have no problem w heavy gear for $400. The ideal anchor for your boat could be the Manson Ray (a fabricated (not cast)) claw. Expensive though. And yes I too see Navy anchors on some larger craft. Here's two examples of Navy anchors as primaries (one on a yacht) and two examples of Forfjords on 30' boats. Heavy anchors still seem to have their place in the modern world. Here's a pic of the winch too.


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Tuesday 8th of November 2011 11:22:17 AM
I think the third picture down is a Navy stockless anchor rather than a fjord,No?
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Old 07-31-2015, 07:04 PM   #40
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I think the third picture down is a Navy stockless anchor rather than a fjord,No?
S of F,
On post #4 pics 3 and 4 are indeed stockless Navy anchors. Did I muck up my text? Sorry. I need to proof read very carefully w this i-pad. I hunt and peck the keyboard and you'd be amazed at the unintelligible things I type because I'm not seeing what I type as I'm waching the keyboard. Too late to edit as there's such a small time allotted for that. On BoatDesign.com you can edit a month old post.


Brian,
Looks like a very good knock of Forfjord ... but is it? The Forfjord could be a knock off Davis. I think Davis is a sizable and long time anchor manufacturer. It could be the Forfjord is the knockoff. That would upset a bunch of fishermen if that was to get out. Anyway I didn't know the Davis Seahook 100 existed. Thanks Brian.


Phil fill,
Interesting,
Grinding, sharpening and modifying anchors is a bit of a hobby of mine.
Sounds like you may have increased the throat angle that I'm quite sure is the angle between the shank and flukes when the flukes are fully extended. More fluke angle would make it better in very soft bottoms or mud but probably not so effective anchoring on harder bottoms. Don't understand how you made the flukes longer.
I'm installing little blocks that could be called shims (3/8ths & 1/2" thick) to limit the throat angle on my old Dreadnought. Float angle was about 65 degrees .. too much.
I cut out some of the back of the fluke on my XYZ and sharpened the fluke tip edge considerably. It's just mild steel but held in a 50 knot gale. The tip angle went from about 45 to about 60 degrees. Unless the back of the fluke flips up it will be a weight reduction and better setting and holding. Boat's almost ready to go now so trying some anchoring should happen soon.
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