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Old 10-05-2014, 06:25 PM   #101
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I'm with Janice 100% The laws currently on the books in Florida if enforced would get the derelict boats and people off the water very quickly. We don't need more laws until the ones that we have are enforced.
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:29 PM   #102
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The one issue I have with state registration is, in my viewpoint, a violation of the interstate commerce clause of the US Constitution. A Federally documented boat seems to me sales tax tribute is a violation. Otherwise no problem with derelict boats polluting and trashing being ground up.
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:37 PM   #103
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sales tax and registration while connected for state convenience of collection...are usually light years apart legally....
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:53 PM   #104
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Not to forget, those abandoned boats and even some lived aboard are generally NOT LEGAL. I'm referring to anchor lights (almost never seen, except on cruisers) but also the state registrations are long out of date.

Boats sitting at anchor even long term are supposed to have registrations for the state they are in. I'm 100% against more laws. Simply enforce the ones already here.
The ones down the river from my marina are like that. Just a couple have anchor lights but they aren't really anchor lights they are solar powered garden lights and they don't last until dawn. Most of the registrations are out of date or missing altogether. The DNR and USCG ride past them often but apparently do not care.
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:08 PM   #105
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One problem with enforcing the current Florida laws is that the derelict boats are generally not only worthless but cost a good amount to haul out and dispose of. The "owners" in many cases are judgment proof. They buy a cheap boat and abandon it when it no longer works. If the boat is in a marina, the marina owner has all sort of legal hoops to jump through, and then must pay for disposal.

Anchored boats need to be seized, towed and disposed of. Generally the owners who abandon these boats cannot be found and are judgment proof.

The new laws, I would suggest, would require as part of the initial registration some sort of surety that would pay for disposal if abandoned. This would probably only a problem for boats worth less than $20,000 as the others could rely on the value of the boat or the insurance carried on the boat.

Until the derelict boat issue is solved those in favor of restricting our anchoring rights will have a solid argument to support their position, even if the derelict boats are not what they are concerned about.
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:59 AM   #106
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>Just a couple have anchor lights but they aren't really anchor lights they are solar powered garden lights and they don't last until dawn.<

A visit to any battery seller , even radio shack will find far better batts , thar easily last all night .

They will cost more than the yard walkway fixture , and not be legal as anchor lights, but anything is better than nothing.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:07 AM   #107
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.................. The new laws, I would suggest, would require as part of the initial registration some sort of surety that would pay for disposal if abandoned. ..................... .
That only works for boats registered in FL. And just imagine the uproar on boating forums if a state announced that all boats were now subject to a disposal fee as a condition of registration.

I see your point that the owner of a boat should be responsible for its final disposal but I don't think your plan will work.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:27 AM   #108
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sales tax and registration while connected for state convenience of collection...are usually light years apart legally....
It would suit me to turn the issue over to the Coast Guard, require documentation on all boats wider than 101 inches (legal hwy width). Increase the documentation fees to cover it.

The mish mash of state regulations from state to state, city to city, county to county is a mess.

However I am not a states rights guy at all.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:49 AM   #109
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That only works for boats registered in FL. And just imagine the uproar on boating forums if a state announced that all boats were now subject to a disposal fee as a condition of registration.

I see your point that the owner of a boat should be responsible for its final disposal but I don't think your plan will work.
Ron

The derelict boat problem is not a transient problem as the transients have movable boats and are usually in decent shape. Florida already has requirements for either a registration or a cruising permit (forget the term) so that if you want to be in Florida for longer than 30 days (?) you have to register.

From my experience the derelict boats are not brought in from other states but are bought cheaply in Florida, used as residences and then abandoned when no longer of any use. I am sure there are exceptions but the number of exceptions would not be a problem.

Just my opinion.

PS. I discussed this with one Florida politician and his/her response was that his/her constituents did not want the anchored boats period and the derelict boats were a great argument in favor of anchoring restrictions.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:00 AM   #110
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Operative term, Florida Politican, with allegiance to their voter first rather than the Constitution of The US. Interstate commerce clause. The constitution is paraded out when convenient. Just another reason the teeth should be pulled out of county, city, state laws. Perhaps state and local should have authority to enforce FEDERAL laws, but not be allowed to make up their own rules to please their donors. The waterways belong to ALL the people, not just some CS lot owner.

How far would it go if a home owner determined he did not want to put up withe the noise of jet engines at an airplane repair facility on the airport grounds, and did not like the view of those parked airplanes. Local politians pass a city ordinance regulating same.
How far Doya think that would fly...ha ha. Same damn thing. This local thing needs a real good federal slap down.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:48 AM   #111
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Florida is as good at dealing with derelict boats as your states are at dealing with boarded up or derelict houses and the people who cause them.
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Old 10-06-2014, 10:18 AM   #112
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Florida is as god at dealing with derelict boats as your states are at dealing with boarded up or derelict houses and the people who cause them.
There is a difference. The water, and the navigational waterways are owned by the people. Private property not under federal jurisdiction is altogether another matter. If you parked your house on some vacant land on an Air Force base the Feds may rightfully object and or regulate but it would only be the Feds. So how is it we (the Federal Government) allow a small segment of local government have the right to regulate waterways is beyond me.

Sometimes bigger government is better. This is one of those times. The Most workable seems the Coast Guard sets the standard and both the CG, State and local be authorized to enforce seamless uniform regulations state to state.
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:41 PM   #113
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The water, and the navigational waterways are owned by the people. ....................
As are the roads, highways and state parks. The federal, state and local governments are the people's representatives. They have the same rights to regulate waterways within their borders as they have to regulate highways.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:47 PM   #114
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Florida Anchoring limits heating up

It is true that the navigable waterways are owned by the people.

However, when you 'make fast, anchor, or run aground' a completely different set of legal rules apply.

These people are anchoring (or mooring) to the sovereign states territory. This is why the dilemma exists. All states have the ability to tax (regulate) in whatever way they see fit. (( Unless it is in a federally designated anchorage))

If the residents of particular states want to change (to make it less or more lenient) that's their choice by the ballot box.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:50 AM   #115
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As are the roads, highways and stare parks. The federal, state and local governments are the people's representatives. They have the same rights to regulate waterways within their borders as they have to regulate highways.
=================================================
A town cannot set a speed limit on an interstate highway they have annexed no matter what the city counsel or mayor wants to do. There are federal and state regulations in play. IE: Mansfield, TX still wants to drop the speed limit on US 287. The have not been able to get approval.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:58 AM   #116
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If the residents of particular states want to change (to make it less or more lenient) that's their choice by the ballot box.

Cappy
I am not too sure about that. The intercostal waterway and other navigatabe waterways are not subject to the whelms of the locals elected or not without siginificant over sight. Just as federal highways.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:32 AM   #117
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Here's a familiar sight to ACIW travelers...some tidbits too...

Holden Beach wants Brunswick to clean up waterway | StarNewsOnline.com

State and locals do have jurisdiction on the ICW (concurrent with the Feds)...the USCG regulates things like bridge openings but locals can ask for restrictions to "open on demand", the ACOE has input into things that would affect maintaining the channel.

I'm sure there are plenty of other federal agencies that have concurrent jurisdiction and only have control over locals when the locals/states impact their mission statement for the ICW.

The no wake buoys are clear indicators there is ultimately local/state control at some level.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:39 AM   #118
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A combination of the Interstate Commerce Clause in the US constitution and the navigable waters decisions give exclusive jurisdiction to the US federal government. Where it becomes tricky is with respect to liveaboards and mooring fields, in both cases I believe the feds have delegated some power to regulate to the state and local authorities.
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Old 10-07-2014, 03:55 PM   #119
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Tow the abandon boats out and let the USCG use them for target practice!
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Old 10-07-2014, 04:30 PM   #120
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Tow the abandon boats out and let the USCG use them for target practice!
That can't be done any more without removing any hazardous materials. It's not cheap.
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