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Old 07-09-2014, 11:51 AM   #1
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Extending my anchor rode

I currently have 50ft of 1/4 inch ht chain with 300ft of 1/2 inch 3 strand rope. I have the possibility of having to anchor in 75ft of water for 3 days. Thirty foot boat aprox 10,000lbs plus. Main anchor is 22lb Bruce. If that is the case I will need to add to the rope. What knot would you use to add rope? A better way to add rope to my 350ft total???? I normally would not need to anchor this deep.
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Jim
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:11 PM   #2
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Well you could by another anchor line that has a thimble on it and just tie your old line to the thimble with a bowline with the tag end locked off with a couple of half hitches.

Or you could add a thimble to the end of your current anchor line and join the two thimble ends together with a shackle, carabiner or swivel.
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:44 PM   #3
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When we would fish for tuna overnight in 120 ft sand bottom, we only used 300 ft of 3 strand and 20 of chain. If we needed to anchor off the lump in 200 ft, we would add a 300 ft section stored in a Rubbermaid tub with a simple shackle. Never dragged with a standard danforth. 30 ft lobster boat about 12K#.
50 ft of chain and 300 ft in 75ft, you should be good in decent weather and bottom.
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Old 07-09-2014, 04:53 PM   #4
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Been reading about the Zeppelin Bend in the other forum... seems like maybe an option. Don't know whether the knot folks would recommend for this scenario, though...

Or could just go bowline-to-bowline (in lieu of another rode with thimble), although not sure what end strength of that might be.

-Chris
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:08 AM   #5
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I'd be nervous about using knots in that situation. I vote for thimbles spliced in the ends joined by a shackle.
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I'd be nervous about using knots in that situation. I vote for thimbles spliced in the ends joined by a shackle.
shackle with a wire tie or safety wire...

Bowline to bowline is great but not pretty.

Any line to line know often suffers from chafe between th elines versus knot preaking.

While assistance towing , I use pretty much bowlines for all high stress situations. I have had the line melt to itself without the bowline failing.
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Old 07-11-2014, 08:16 PM   #7
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When I need to add temporary length to my rode I use bowline to bowline. Maybe not pretty or go through a windlass, but it's rock solid and easy to remove later.

Ken
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Old 07-11-2014, 10:46 PM   #8
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another vote for two bowlines I would add a few stiches through the bitter ends fixing them back to the main line so they can not pull lose. this is ugly and will not go through a windless but will not fail and comes apart when you no longer need it.
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:55 AM   #9
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Thanks for the response. I was thinking Bowline to Bowline also but wanted to be sure. I was thinking of weaving the bitter ends back into the rope so that the knots would not pull loose.
Jim
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Old 07-14-2014, 12:43 PM   #10
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just put a few stiches in bitter end back to main rode easy to remove at later time.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:24 PM   #11
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" I was thinking of weaving the bitter ends back into the rope so that the knots would not pull loose."

Stitching would relieve my concern over using knots. Watch for rope to rope chafing. It can happen fast under a load.
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Old 07-14-2014, 05:50 PM   #12
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Double sheet bend. Simple, and safe.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:17 PM   #13
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I would add a 50 pound weight at the end of the chain, about 3' away from the rode. It acts as a 'sentinal' adding scope angle, without actually increasing the length of rode.

However, it is NOT to be used in a blow, or if you are in a LOT of current. The proper thing to do, would be to add 25 or 50' of 5/16 or 3/8" chain from the anchor to the 1/4"

Do you have a storm anchor you could 'borrow' the extra chain from? then you just have to use seizing on the shackles to put it together.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:54 PM   #14
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No the proper thing to do is just what he is trying to do. Which is increase the length of his rode to get more scope. Anything else is just a band-aid.
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Old 07-18-2014, 07:15 AM   #15
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Ummmm. I think adding more chain (and heavier) would accomplish the same thing...... Unless more chain does not increase scope. I guess it depends upon your point of view.

If one is having difficulty deciding 'which knots' to use to marry two rodes together, it is far easier to screw two shackles and seize them than describe how to properly marry two lines.
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:57 AM   #16
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Scope is the ratio of the length of the rode to the depth of the water, adding 25-50' of chain will help only slightly. And since he is talking about anchoring in 75' of water, the only way to get to the correct scope is to add a whole lot more line rode or way more chain than 50'.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:10 AM   #17
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Extending my anchor rode

Chain is proportionally WAY more effective if you have to 'short scope'. Even one or two others mention using complete chain at a 3:1 scope as enough. More chain is far superior to 'lots' more line. Of course just my opinion. It seems to be borne out over 35+ years of observation and practice. But, of course, I learn new stuff every day.

With a complete chain rode you can go as low as 3:1. (Preferably 3.5:1). When mixing rode (not talking about a short piece for bottom abrasion) as the OP has mentioned adding more chain is FAR more preferable.

There are many 'documented' Internet tomès on the lack of suitability of sentinels on rodes. But none of them document a chain rode. Chain is completely different than a fiber rode. More weight down low is the solution.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:27 AM   #18
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Yes but he only has a 22lb anchor and 50' of 1/4 chain. 3-1 scope in 75' of water with all chain is still 225' feet of chain. So adding only 25-50' is not going to get him there.

Plus he mentioned staying at anchor for 3 days. If it was a very protected anchorage, I had a larger anchor and the weather was supposed to be stable for that whole time I might be comfortable with that little scope. Otherwise I'd want as much as I could get.

He's got 300' of line now. And line is cheaper than chain to buy. Especially if you only need it for a one time or once in a while thing.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:59 AM   #19
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I have a 30' boat w a 435' rode. Only 20' of chain. I'm a fan of long rodes for safety/emergency situations and as most here know not a fan of lots of chain. The most advantageous weight that you can add to your system is not chain but in your anchor. One could add 50lbs of chain but be better off adding 10lbs of anchor. And Jim your'e halving one of the best anchors in the world for short scope anchoring I'd strongly suggest getting a 33lb claw of your choice. I recently bought a 33lb Lewmar for less than $100. Go down to the store and lift a 22lb and a 33lb ..... huge difference. And in your case you can continue to use your 22lb for every day use if you pull by hand or ? Don't know what the rest of your anchoring system is but you talk about adding chain for holding at short scope. I think adding anchor weight is far more effective.

Cappy,
If you really get into a strong blow the chain will be pulled out almost straight and it's effective catenary advantage is lost. Chain is great for bottom abrasion and setting anchors but for maximum holding increasing holding power is best accomplished by using a bigger anchor. He could also choose a higher performance anchor that has been tested superior at short scope like a Manson Supreme. In that case Jim could probably increase his holding power at 3-1 scope with a lighter anchor. I have a 15lb Supreme but it actually weighs 18lbs and I'm sure holds better than the 22lb Claw. Not many of the newer anchors perform well at short scope though. And of course if Jim is pulling by hand and can afford it the Fortress is probably the anchor to have especially if he's anchoring in really soft stuff.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:17 AM   #20
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+1 to what Bill said about adding hitches. Bowlines wont fail under load and are easier to untie when done but will come loose under pull then relaxing conditions of anchoring.
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