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Old 04-30-2013, 08:53 PM   #81
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Manyboats one of the great thing about boating on the river is the current cleans the rode & anchor while hauling it up.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:58 PM   #82
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Don once said that because of its strength, the indestructible Bruce would make an excellent "grappling hook" for anchoring in rocks.
Brian--- Unlike Bruce (the person) I absolutely despise the Bruce anchor, at least as an anchor for small boats like ours. I guess it's just great if your boat is a North Sea oil rig. But we were let down several times by our Bruce, the last of which came within minutes of costing us the boat. After that experience we started a search for something better for a main anchor. Our Bruce now does duty propping open a door in our garage which as far as I'm concerned is the only thing this POS anchor is good for.

My own opinion is the Bruce is a great anchor when it's really big and really weighs a lot. Like tons. Where I believe it fails--- and it consistently comes out at or near the bottom in terms of holding power in countless anchoring tests--- is that while you can scale an anchor down you can't scale the bottom down. This I believe is the Bruce's undoing when it gets down to sizes like 33#, 44#, etc.

In any event we will never again have one on any boat we own and when I see one on another boat--- which is very common up here as it and the CQR are the two most popular anchors in this area--- I feel sorry for the owner.

In total contrast, the Fortress performs as advertised. It's an excellent, proven design made better by virtue of its encouraging an owner to use it rather than discouraging him. Particularly in the case of a stern anchor or any application where the anchor is going to be handled by hand.

The only negative thing I have ever read about the Fortress is that in some extreme tests the stock bent when the pull was moved off to the side and the anchor did not unset. But given that the purpose of an anchor is to keep your boat where it is, an anchor that bends its stock but still stays set and still holds the boat is far better than an anchor that breaks its stock or comes unset and then won't reset. But as I believe I said earlier in this thread, the bending stocks represented a pretty extreme situation and in normal or even harder-than-normal operations I would not think this would be an issue with a Fortress.

So a great product at a fair price with (apparently---we've never had to use it) excellent customer service after the sale. A fairly rare combination these days.

In fact we are thinking of buying a second one, this time for our 17' Arima which currently has a small but heavy Danforth type the dealer threw in when we bought the boat new in 1987. This is an anchor that, when used, is handled completely by hand.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:59 PM   #83
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Don once said that because of its strength, the indestructible Bruce would make an excellent "grappling hook" for anchoring in rocks.

Thanks again,
Brian[/QUOTE]

I can vouch for that. I caught a big one last year!
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:24 AM   #84
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I'm guessing that test rack was a Torquemada design?
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:40 AM   #85
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Marin,

Sorry to hear of the bad experience with your Bruce anchor. While I have also seen several anchor tests where the Bruce has not performed well, I have spoken with many of their owners over the years who have sworn allegiance to the anchor, so.....

One particularly baffling anchor test I saw was done by the 40k member Swedish Cruising Association, who have been testing anchors in the clay bottoms off their coast for 20 years or so. The Bruce did poorly....but a stainless Bruce copy did well, in fact, better than the "new generation" anchors that were in this same test. Can't understand that one...

Regarding the stock, although we have fattened it up from the original Fortress models, it is still possible to bend one under a serious load.

Nsail, congratulations on that nice catch.

Steve, yes....very perceptive of you.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:12 PM   #86
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Here is a Forfjord w mud flukes.

I thought they were owner add-ons but I've noyiced most are all the same and look professionally done so I suspect they are a factory option.
Phil Fill,
I finally found the pic of the Forfjord that had the home made mud anchor extensions.
The mud extensions in the second pic is (I believe) factory done.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:41 PM   #87
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Phil Fill,
I finally found the pic of the Forfjord that had the home made mud anchor extensions.
The mud extensions in the second pic is (I believe) factory done.
Yep that is what I plan on doing with my Forfjord! Make it a little heavier and stronger hold. I wonder why in the test I have seen/read they do not compare the Forfjord? In the PNW most commercial and many pleasure over 50+ ft have the Forfjord with all chain.

Thanks for the pictures, so I can show the plant the modification. Instead of my hand waving and/or rough drawings. It sort a looks like this but not quite, but sort of! Before they actually weld they have me approve because I have been know to change my mind!
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:14 PM   #88
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I'm not a fan of the Forfjord and they must drag frequently .. especially in mud.
There are many Forfjord anchors in Craig Alaska w the extended flukes.

Most say one should have a Claw anchor heavier than recommended to get satisfactory performance. Forfjords, Dreadnoughts and Navy anchors are in the same category but more so.

There seemed to be some confusion about exactly what a Navy anchor is in the past so I'm posting a cear pic of a Navy anchor for reference.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:54 PM   #89
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Marin,

Sorry to hear of the bad experience with your Bruce anchor. While I have also seen several anchor tests where the Bruce has not performed well, I have spoken with many of their owners over the years who have sworn allegiance to the anchor, so.....
The Bruce has a lot of fans, no question, which is one reason we bought one. We figured if almost every boat we see around us has a Bruce it must be good, right?

Most of the time it was fine. But most of our anchoring never puts the ground tackle to any sort of test. Light wind or no wind and the anchor and chain just lie there. That probably describes the vast majority of anchoring experiences in this area and on up the coast where protected anchorages are plentiful.

And the Bruce does set quickly in a variety of bottoms. It's not just a mud-and-sand anchor like the Danforth design (I realize the Danforth can set in other stuff, too, but it seems to be at its best in mud and sand).

So the Bruce was fine until we really needed it to stay put. And on those occasions, it never did.

Now if it was just us, I'd say we were doing something wrong. But it's not just us. Every boater we know personally, like the members of our club, who have Bruces have had them fail when the pulling got hard. Most have elected not to change because good anchors are expensive and as I said, 99.999 percent of the time up here a coffee can with a rock in it would work fine as an anchor, to say nothing of a 33# or 44# Bruce.

But a few people we know did change. Some of them, all boaters who anchor a lot or travel the Inside Passage in the summer, came out to our boat, took measurements of the anchor we bought to replace our Bruce to determine that it would fit their bow or pulpit, and bought one. And from what I've been told, they have not had a bad set or a drag since.

So my own theory as to the Bruce's (and Claw's) continued popularity is a) "everyone has one so it must be good," b) its well-deserved and proven reputation for setting fast in a variety of bottoms, c) boaters here don't encounter anchoring situations-- or haven't yet--- where holding power becomes the primary requirement, d) they simply don't anchor out much or ever so they got what everyone else has, and e) good anchors are expensive so they keep what they have or what came with the boat.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:50 PM   #90
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Probably the biggest reason people drag anchors is the bottom. The bottom is the variable that varies the most. Just like digging in our garden the sea floor offers a constantly changing bottom that is way different a very short distance away. In our garden you can hardly dig in one place and 10' north of there the ground is soft w few rocks and digs well w/o a pick.

The sea floor is formed by hydraulic forces (water) like your garden or front yard. Horizontal deposits of whatever happens to be in the clutches of the moving water makes the usual horizontally layered sedimentary deposits that we try to penetrate w our anchors. Silt or clay could be on top w rocks 3" just below or the other way around.

The most unusual bottom that we even think about is rocky. Many anchors don't do well on rocky bottoms. That was my thinking when we went to Alaska in 03 and I bought a Claw thinking it would be an OK anchor on most all bottoms. I got lucky. I was also lucky in that we didn't encounter any gales that trip either.

There are certain kinds of bottoms that NO anchor will penetrate like some clay and weed. And there are many anchors that only excel in one type of bottom. And there are some anchors that do well in most bottom types like the SARCA and Rocna. After the "sets on most bottoms" feature the Claw only seems to excel by being very user friendly mounting and deploying off the bows of boats. It also excels in price .. as in inexpensive.

If I had to limit myself to one anchor here in Puget Sound it would probably be the Manson Supreme but a big Claw could easily substitute.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:39 AM   #91
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"One anchor" a real CQR ,or Danforth H

#two would be a big Danforth H .or a genuine CQR

Many, probably most folks get in trouble anchoring by believing the anchor assemblers BS advertising and use a watch fob.

Better too big (with a crown trip line) than too small , even for "just" overnight.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:25 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
The Bruce has a lot of fans, no question, which is one reason we bought one. We figured if almost every boat we see around us has a Bruce it must be good, right?.............So my own theory as to the Bruce's (and Claw's) continued popularity is a) "everyone has one so it must be good," b) its well-deserved and proven reputation for setting fast in a variety of bottoms, c) boaters here don't encounter anchoring situations-- or haven't yet--- where holding power becomes the primary requirement, d) they simply don't anchor out much or ever so they got what everyone else has, and e) good anchors are expensive so they keep what they have or what came with the boat.
Marin, what you say here is pretty much the same as I posted in post 62 re the loyalty to Plowright/CQR type anchors we still see most using here in Oz.
In effect, came with the boat, most folks seem to have them, therefore must be ok. When they drag, it's rare, because boaters seek to avoid dragging type conditions, and if they do, they excuse their performance as being because the bottom substrate was not their best type....
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