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Old 04-27-2013, 08:53 PM   #61
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I am as happy as a clam with my Fortress FX-23, although I wish I had an FX-37 for the boat I have now. The Fortress I have is one of the few things I kept from my previous boat, a 34 footer, so it might be a tad small for a 40 footer. Speaking of which, I did put about a 10 degree bend in the part they call the stock one wild night, and they did send me the new part. I use it as a secondary anchor and it did a terrific job two weekends ago when the Delta wouldn't grab in three tries. I guess the North Carolina mud called hard pan by Moonstruck was too much for the Delta, because it worked fine elsewhere.
I was just surprised that I dragged and couldn't get a set in 15 mph winds. Seems it should have taken a harder blow to give so much trouble. That's the reason I started this thread.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:08 PM   #62
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I suspect, and have so for a long time, especially as I wander marinas over here in Australia, and see so many still using CQR type anchors, the reason you don't hear about dragging all that often is most of the time we go out of our way, literally and figuratively, to avoid finding ourselves anchored in a place or weather pattern likely to put the anchor to any real test. Hence giving rise to the old saying, 'the anchor normally merely locates the end of the rode and tacks it to the sea bottom', the length and weight of the rode does the rest. That holds good until the unexpected happens, and then, and only then, one really discovers the true holding power of the said anchor.
I have noticed when the anchor fails to set because of unsuitable bottom, the owner then usually excuses the anchor on a those grounds, and moves to somewhere it will set, because at least one has warning of the potential for trouble when it does not set initially.

What amazes me is how few seem to ask themselves why not get an anchor that sets quickly and easily in nearly any bottom. That is where the newer anchor technology comes in. I'll say no more, as most on this board know what anchor I use, and I don't wish to hijack the thread. My intent was just to pose a possible answer to the question Eric raised as to why there appear to be so few complaints from owners/users of anchors which perform so poorly in tests.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:41 PM   #63
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I am as happy as a clam with my Fortress FX-23, although I wish I had an FX-37 for the boat I have now. The Fortress I have is one of the few things I kept from my previous boat, a 34 footer, so it might be a tad small for a 40 footer. Speaking of which, I did put about a 10 degree bend in the part they call the stock one wild night, and they did send me the new part. I use it as a secondary anchor and it did a terrific job two weekends ago when the Delta wouldn't grab in three tries. I guess the North Carolina mud called hard pan by Moonstruck was too much for the Delta, because it worked fine elsewhere.
I was just surprised that I dragged and couldn't get a set in 15 mph winds. Seems it should have taken a harder blow to give so much trouble. That's the reason I started this thread.
I went from a FX-23 to a FX-37 on my 38' Bayliner & I'am seriously considering going back to the 23. The 37 gets a excellent bite in the river mud or sand making it hard to extract at times. On the last outing last year I tore up the bow roller assy. I motored over the anchor, used the windlass to get all the slack out of the chain & pulled it out of the bottom with part of the 350 hp available & the bow roller & brackets were trashed. The 37 makes for a easy nights sleep but the 23 never dragged I just thought bigger is better & the 37 would lay on the pulpit. I've got a heavy built SS roller assy. to replace the pulpit, after it's installed I'll decide which one to hang on it.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:12 PM   #64
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I motored over the anchor, used the windlass to get all the slack out of the chain & pulled it out of the bottom with part of the 350 hp available & the bow roller & brackets were trashed.
This is why we were taught never to set or break out our anchor against the pulpit or the windlass gears. Instead we always use our "set/break-out" line; a short, stout, twisted-strand line with a chain-hook on one end. The other end gets cleated off to one of our heavily backed foredeck cleats. All setting and break-out pressure is put against this line and the cleat, never the pulpit, rollers, or windlass gears.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:06 PM   #65
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Brian,
Thank's for the comprehensive post.

I thought of the Super Max but I would think the'd use the word "Super".

Mac Maloney using the CQR should be a great endorsement for the old CQR and I have an mud anchor test that the CQR won as well. My favorite anchor is a modified XYZ. An early XYZ won top honors in another anchor I read but not carefully enough (didn't realize it was mud only) ... bought one and It's holding power was tested by me in a 50 knot gale but it otherwise rarely set. I have a newer XYZ and needed a fluke tip and the XYZ guy wouldn't supply me w a replacement after only a year. Made my own and it's worked very well but has a wide chisel shaped tip so I must have anchored only on soft bottoms. I've been saying the biggest variable in anchoring is the sea floor. And when anchors seem to fail I'll bet most all the time it's the bottom that failed .. not the anchor.

Re the stock bar I suspected as much ... kind of a basic stabilizing device. In a test that featured an anchor that lacked the Stock it wound up w one fluke up in the air and broke out. I'll bet a rock rolled the anchor sideways.

And I agree 110% w your last statement. I've contended for some time that the roll bars inhibit penetration much past the surface. But the M Supreme and the Rocna perform very well in tests. I have a Supreme and thought it's setting performance was slow and undeceive but lately it seems to set normally. There again probably the bottom.


CC,
I agree ... Bigger is only better if whatever .... is not big enough.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:42 PM   #66
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This is why we were taught never to set or break out our anchor against the pulpit or the windlass gears. Instead we always use our "set/break-out" line; a short, stout, twisted-strand line with a chain-hook on one end. The other end gets cleated off to one of our heavily backed foredeck cleats. All setting and break-out pressure is put against this line and the cleat, never the pulpit, rollers, or windlass gears.
By myself in the areas (sloughs & off channel) I normally find to anchor the time required to do that while in the current & being away from the helm causes me more worry than a tweaked bow roller. When someone is along then using the toe switches at the bow instead of the FB helm switch is my preferred method. The windlass has a clutch so I don't worry to much about damaging it, my mistake was in not just sitting there & letting the current loosen the anchor while I kept a pull on the chain, haste makes waste.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:32 AM   #67
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[B]CPseudonym;152560]High jack starting.

Andy and Bruce: I would love a 13kg Sacra but the shipping cost estimate from UPS would be more than the anchor cost. Sure hope they'd start distributing in the states. It does look well suited to our Delta mud here in California.

High jack over.

Ah ha, now you know how we ex convicts feel every time we see a must have boating 'toy' at half the $ cost your side of the pond.Very frustrating.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:53 PM   #68
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I don't know if it's the solution or not yet, but I was in my local WM and they had a Rocna model 20 (44lbs.) for sale as a "scratch and dent" item. I asked the salesman how you scratch or dent an anchor so that the price must be lowered. He showed me an irregular shape of approximately 3/8" on the top of the shank where it was indeed hit by something, creating a mark some .0005" high. I can live with that, and since Wichard stainless-steel shackles were also on sale; I'm now the proud owner of the Rocna. I moved the Delta to the garage for now, which by the way weighs 35 lbs. in response to an earlier question on this thread (weighed it on the bathroom scale). The plan now is to test the new anchor on an upcoming cruise in the Pamlico and Albermarle Sound areas.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:04 PM   #69
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Let's see how it works at 2-1 scope .... Just as an experiment.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:33 PM   #70
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Ah ha, now you know how we ex convicts feel every time we see a must have boating 'toy' at half the $ cost your side of the pond.Very frustrating.


Point well taken Andy
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:37 AM   #71
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Eric,

I checked the Sailing Foundation test results we have on file and the Davis 45 looks like a fisherman type anchor, except that it also has stock running through the center.

I am surprised that the XYZ guy was not more accommodating with you, since his anchor is relatively new and supporters with loud voices are mission critical.

The Manson Supreme is a strong anchor and I am sure you will find it to be very dependable. It will be interesting to see how their new Boss anchor fares as well.

The Spade is also an impressive anchor, and in addition to the Excel, it has been a top performer in every anchor test I have seen over the years.

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Old 04-29-2013, 09:07 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy G View Post
[B]CPseudonym;152560]High jack starting.

Andy and Bruce: I would love a 13kg Sacra but the shipping cost estimate from UPS would be more than the anchor cost. Sure hope they'd start distributing in the states. It does look well suited to our Delta mud here in California.

High jack over.

Ah ha, now you know how we ex convicts feel every time we see a must have boating 'toy' at half the $ cost your side of the pond.Very frustrating.
Careful about those ex-con cracks Andy. Not all of us come from such stock.....
Still, you are right about the rip-offs here compared to US prices. There has been a bit of argy bargy here in our papers recently as to this very issue, and as an example, (no, I'm not even close to being in the market for one), but the price of a Porsch 911 costing still 172% more here than in the US even now, when our dollar has been = $US 1.03 to 1.05 for a couple of years now. Explain that.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:59 AM   #73
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I'd like to throw in a comment about the people at Fortress. They are really nice folks to deal with. They produce a quality product and they really do stand behind it. If you break or bend it, just send them the old part and very quickly you'll have a replacement.

One quirk they have is that they won't ship the replacement parts to their dealers. I once had a customer bring in a bent Fortress fluke and we said we'd be glad to get the replacement for them. They insisted on shipping the replacement directly to the customer. Not a bad idea. I think they like direct contact with users of their product.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:23 PM   #74
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Hi HopCar,

Thanks for your post. I assume that you represent Hopkins Carter out of Miami, whom I think is one of the oldest marine accessory dealers in the area, if not the country, as they have been in business since 1916, which is obviously very impressive.

A couple of clarifications to your comments:

1. A customer does not have to send the damaged parts back to us for the warranty.

2. The key reason why we want the customer to deal directly with us is to eliminate the inconvenience of them having to make a 2nd trip back to the store to pick up the parts. For some people, that could be a good distance.

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Old 04-29-2013, 03:13 PM   #75
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Hi Brian,
You figured me out! Hopkins-Carter it is.

"1. A customer does not have to send the damaged parts back to us for the warranty.

2. The key reason why we want the customer to deal directly with us is to eliminate the inconvenience of them having to make a 2nd trip back to the store to pick up the parts. For some people, that could be a good distance."

That's good to know. If you ever get down to Miami, please stop in and say hello. I've been to your warehouse in Ft. Lauderdale a couple of times picking up our orders.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:31 PM   #76
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The Fortress is a great product. Our boat came with a Danforth knock-off in a mount on the swimstep that was intended for use as a stern anchor. But it was virtually useless in this role, not because of its design but because of its weight. We just didn't want to use it--- lift it in and out of the dinghy, risking our fingers, lowering it over side of the dinghy and so on. So we endured yawing on a mooring with the accompanying annoying roll as the boat swung back and forth off the waves instead of fixing the situation with the stern anchor.

It didn't take us long to come to the realization that enough was enough. So we gave the heavy Danforth knock-off to a friend who wanted it for yard art and replaced it with a Fortress FX-23.

The Fortress immediately solved our "problem." It's easy to get into the dinghy without the risk of "pinched finger" syndrome because it's light and easy to hold correctly. It's easy to deploy from the dinghy.

It's superior holding power in the bottoms the design is suited for has long been proven in countless anchor tests, but this combined with its easy-to-handle weight makes it a truly versatile device, one that in our application encourages it's use rather than discourages it.

We've used it to help keep a club raft in place and last year when the wind shifted we had eight boats hanging on the thing. And this was off an anchor that we'd originally just set by hand by pulling on its rode from the GB.

We sized the Fortress and its rode to be the main anchor/rode for our boat should we encounter an anchoring situation our main anchor doesn't do well in. Based on the performance of our main anchor over the last eight years or so we don't foresee every having to use the Fortress in this way, but it's nice to know it's there and ready to be deployed off the bow if necessary.

I don't know who came up with the original idea for the Fortress but they certainly did the boating community a big favor by doing so.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:20 PM   #77
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The single greatest negative with the Fortress we read about when researching anchors to replace our Bruce is that under a lot of pressure it bends. And can bend quiet badly if the pull gets off to the side and the anchor doesn't unset.

This is understandable given its construction. But if one is looking for a storm anchor that will hold like stink, the Fortress would actually seem to be a poor choice if the wind is going to veer round and the pull go off to the side. In test after test of this that we saw, the Fortess bent and sometimes very severely. Just something to keep in mind.
???
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:10 AM   #78
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:21 AM   #79
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Marin,

Thanks for the terrific testimonial. After reading it I was wondering if / how we could get you on our payroll.

Our late company founder, Don Hallerberg, was quite an adventurous boater. He took one of his boats 1,000 miles up the Amazon River and later on he outfitted a 1981 77' Hatteras for long range cruising. He crossed the Atlantic a few times in this boat and then completed a circumnavigation in his early 70s.

You mentioned the Bruce, and I remember him saying how incredibly strong the original Bruce anchor was. I think it might have once broken or maxed out "Black Maria," a hydraulic set up we use here at Fortress to test anchors for structural integrity.

Don once said that because of its strength, the indestructible Bruce would make an excellent "grappling hook" for anchoring in rocks.

Thanks again,
Brian
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:51 AM   #80
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Keith wrote that Don said;

"indestructible Bruce would make an excellent "grappling hook" for anchoring in rocks."

As soon as I discover I'm trying to anchor on a rocky bottom I get out the Claw.
And/but I use it at other times too. W/O a wash down hose I shy away from using anchors that are hard to clean w a brush. The Claws and the XYZ are fairly easy to clean.

I like to use all my anchors to keep in touch w how well they work in different circumstances. I have enough now so I could afford to loose a couple and still be covered. Two are basically irreplaceable though.
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