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Old 07-17-2015, 10:09 PM   #101
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I just pushed the button! How did you do that so fast?
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Old 07-17-2015, 10:20 PM   #102
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I've found the strong currents and winds in the San Francisco estuary and its thick, heavy mud are sufficient to secure the anchor without using the engine. The anchor (claw) jerks the boat to a stop.
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Old 07-20-2015, 04:54 PM   #103
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I think it's pretty obvious that the chain lying on the bottom keeps the boat in place until such time as the pressure applied to the boat by wind and/or current lifts the chain off the bottom.

Weight is weight. It doesn't matter if it's a length of chain or an anchor or a big rock. Until that weight is moved, it will hold whatever is attached to it in place.

The photo below was taken on a day when we happened to use our trip line and float. The length of the float line was adjusted to account for the tide range, but otherwise it had no other slack in it. So it floated more or less directly above the anchor.

We always use a scope of 5:1 to 7:1. And we deploy our anchor by lowering it as we are drifting back, thus paying out the chain, and then we set the anchor using the boat. Once we've stopped backing against the rode the boat moves forward as the chain sags back onto the bottom.

The place the photo was taken is a small bay in which the current changes almost continuously. So the boat never just sits in one place unless there's enough wind to make it do that. The end result is the boat is always moving around, sometimes describing a complete circle over time.

And guess what the boat was circling on this day. Not the anchor; the boat never got anywhere near the trip line float. It circled the spot on the bottom where the chain touched down from the pulpit.

Granted, the force applied to the boat was not great. So the weight of the chain was sufficient to keep the boat in the same place more or less. The anchor, in this particular instance and all the other instances like it, played no role whatsoever in keeping the boat in place because the "strain" on the rode never overcame the weight of the chain lying on the bottom so a good portion of the chain never moved and thus never transmitted the pull of the boat to the anchor.

If the wind had come up, absolutely the anchor would have begun to play a role. The chain would have been pulled on and picked up and if the wind was strong enough eventually the pull of the boat would have been transmitted all the way down to the anchor.

But to say the weight of the chain doesn't keep the boat in place is to contradict some fairly proven principles, like gravity.
Please show me more of your trip line and float! I need to do the same but want to do it correctly.....
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Old 07-20-2015, 05:55 PM   #104
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Please show me more of your trip line and float! I need to do the same but want to do it correctly.....
It's about as simple a thing as exists on the planet. Our anchor has a small hole in the wide end of the fluke for a trip line shackle. We leave a shackle in the anchor fluke all the time. We have a 100' length of nylon with a carabiner at one end that clips to the shackle in the fluke. The other end of the line gets tied to the float in the photo.

That's it.

If we ever needed to anchor in more than 100' of water (at maximum tide) we'd get a longer line. But we don't anticipate needing to do that anytime soon. Most of the time we anchor in 30 feet of water give or take.

There are a number of ways to rig a trip line and like everything else everyone has their favorite. Some use a pulley and a weight to take the slack out of the line and compensate for the tide. We want things like this to be a simple as possible with minimal hassle to use so we kept our trip line very basic.

When we use the trip line to actually back the anchor out we feed the line through the port bow hawse and haul the anchor out backwards using the line gypsy on our Lofrans Tigres windlass which more or less lines up with the port hawse.

It's a dirt simple system to deploy and retrieve and we've never had it tangle up in the rode or do anything other than what it's supposed to do. The one change I sometimes contemplate is changing the nylon line to a dacron or some other non-stretching line. The jury's still out on that one.....
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:03 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Marin View Post
It's about as simple a thing as exists on the planet. Our anchor has a small hole in the wide end of the fluke for a trip line shackle. We leave a shackle in the anchor fluke all the time. We have a 100' length of nylon with a carabiner at one end that clips to the shackle in the fluke. The other end of the line gets tied to the float in the photo.

That's it.

If we ever needed to anchor in more than 100' of water (at maximum tide) we'd get a longer line. But we don't anticipate needing to do that anytime soon. Most of the time we anchor in 30 feet of water give or take.

There are a number of ways to rig a trip line and like everything else everyone has their favorite. Some use a pulley and a weight to take the slack out of the line and compensate for the tide. We want things like this to be a simple as possible with minimal hassle to use so we kept our trip line very basic.

When we use the trip line to actually back the anchor out we feed the line through the port bow hawse and haul the anchor out backwards using the line gypsy on our Lofrans Tigres windlass which more or less lines up with the port hawse.

It's a dirt simple system to deploy and retrieve and we've never had it tangle up in the rode or do anything other than what it's supposed to do. The one change I sometimes contemplate is changing the nylon line to a dacron or some other non-stretching line. The jury's still out on that one.....
OK so see if I get this straight. Line to anchor in trip hole. How does the float attach to the trip line and then do you bring the trip line back to the boat or is it at the end of the trip line?
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:30 PM   #106
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How does the float attach to the trip line
It's tied to it.


Quote:
...and then do you bring the trip line back to the boat or is it at the end of the trip line?
Not sure I follow your wording there.

When we deploy a trip line, to retrieve it we pull in the all-chain rode with the windlass in stages: pull some, stop and let the boat drift closer to the anchor as the catenary comes out of the chain, then pull some more, stop and let the boat ease closer to the anchor, and so on. We never put any more strain on the windlass than pulling in slack chain.

If a current or wind prevent this from working my wife drives the boat to the anchor as I pull the rode in with the windlass.

When the bow is over the anchor, the trip line float will be floating next to the bow since it's over the anchor, too. We used to pick up the float with our 16' telescoping boathook. I've since redesigned the pole so it's now tall enough that I can reach it from the foredeck unless it's too far out to reach, in which case we use the boathook.

I pull the float on board (my wife runs the boat during all this so I'm the only one on deck) and then I take all the slack out of the chain rode with the windlass to see what we're dealing with. At this point there are three things that can happen.

1, The anchor breaks out on its own under minimal pull from the windlass. Sometimes the boat bobbing up and down is all that's needed to do this.
2. The anchor does not want to break out with minimal pull, so the next step is to break it out with the boat which we do with our short, very strong anchor setting and break-out line that's fastened to a deck cleat. Again, no load is applied directly to the windlass gears or the pulpit when we do this. In fact the windlass is backed off during this process.
3. The anchor won't break out using the boat so we determine we need to back it out with the trip line.

The trip line is used only to back the anchor out. Once it's free of the bottom we recover it in the normal way.

During recovery I operate the windlass with a foot and pull the trip line aboard by hand as the anchor comes up. Once the anchor is on the pulpit I unclip the trip line from the shackle in the fluke and that's that.

Once we're simply hauling the anchor up off the bottom there is generally no need to maneuver the boat so my wife comes out to the foredeck and takes over dealing with the trip line while I continue running the windlass and washing down the chain as it comes aboard.

Takes a lot less time to do it than describe it.
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Old 07-20-2015, 09:31 PM   #107
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Don't know it this was mentioned... but, when having trouble getting anchor to un-set:

I simply bring in anchor rode until it is fully vertical with bow. Then I gently power over it in opposite direction to center of my recent swing range.


Only once in late 1960's did that fail; because... in Block Island we'd dropped anchor into a mass of discarded wire cables. Tried for hours to free the Danforth anchor. Decided not wise to swim down some 30'+ into the cable/wire mess; also, was in late fall... water had become cold as the gulf stream already changed course for the winter. It would have been a bare skin "free dive".
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Old 07-20-2015, 10:20 PM   #108
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In addition to our trip line we also carry a heavy steel logging ring that can be put around the anchor rode and slid/pulled down the rode to the anchor and then over the shank to the fluke. In theory maneuvering the boat around behind the anchor and then using the windlass gypsy drum to haul in the line attached to the ring will back the anchor out in the same manner as a trip line.

We've never had to use this thing-- it's our go-to tool to back an anchor out that gets stuck and we didn't use the trip line.

I suppose in theory it should work but it won't back the anchor as cleanly as the trip line which pulls directly on the (back) end of the fluke itself and so slides the anchor out from whatever's holding it very cleanly. The ring is more likely to slip or get caught up itself so we actually don't put much faith in it although the theory is good.
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:44 AM   #109
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Thanks for the explanation Marin. I appreciate the time to type it. Helps a lot.
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Old 07-21-2015, 03:33 PM   #110
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Thanks for the explanation Marin. I appreciate the time to type it. Helps a lot.
No problem. It actually takes me very little time to type these things up. Just a few minutes while I'm waiting for a computer to render out an effect. It beats just sitting here watching the progress line creep across the screen.
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Old 08-07-2015, 11:58 AM   #111
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Marin,
What size is your trip line?

If you are anchored in 30' of water with 100' trip line there could be quite a bit of line floating on the surface. Does this ever present a problem while maneuvering during retrieval?

Thanks!
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:18 PM   #112
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The trip line is 100' long. Once the anchor and trip line are deployed, since I have to take the dog ashore anyway, I simply motor over to the trip line float in the dinghy, coil up all the slack in the trip line except enough to compensate for the tide range, and hang the coil from the float. So the float is always right above the anchor, give or take a bit.
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Old 08-08-2015, 12:29 AM   #113
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The trip line is 100' long. Once the anchor and trip line are deployed, since I have to take the dog ashore anyway, I simply motor over to the trip line float in the dinghy, coil up all the slack in the trip line except enough to compensate for the tide range, and hang the coil from the float. So the float is always right above the anchor, give or take a bit.
Your too smart dog queue you in on that?? - lol
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Old 08-08-2015, 01:03 AM   #114
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Your too smart dog queue you in on that?? - lol
Yep.
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Old 08-08-2015, 08:59 AM   #115
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Yep.
Figures
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Old 08-08-2015, 12:36 PM   #116
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We let him dock the boat here in Anacortes yesterday as it was pretty windy. He does a much better job maneuvering in tight quarters with a crosswind than either of us do. He did a pretty good job but it's hard for him to go back and forth between the shifters and the throttles as they are a good foot or so apart. So we had to help him out a bit with that. He's developed a technique whereby he flicks his ears to indicate if he wants a shift change or a power lever change and which engine he wants it on. Clever little creature, he is.
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Old 08-08-2015, 03:02 PM   #117
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We let him dock the boat here in Anacortes yesterday as it was pretty windy. He does a much better job maneuvering in tight quarters with a crosswind than either of us do. He did a pretty good job but it's hard for him to go back and forth between the shifters and the throttles as they are a good foot or so apart. So we had to help him out a bit with that. He's developed a technique whereby he flicks his ears to indicate if he wants a shift change or a power lever change and which engine he wants it on. Clever little creature, he is.
His tail must wag like crazy once he gets you two to set the lines!
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Old 08-09-2015, 01:56 AM   #118
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The trip line is 100' long. Once the anchor and trip line are deployed, since I have to take the dog ashore anyway, I simply motor over to the trip line float in the dinghy, coil up all the slack in the trip line except enough to compensate for the tide range, and hang the coil from the float. So the float is always right above the anchor, give or take a bit.
Thanks for the info
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Old 08-09-2015, 06:14 PM   #119
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the 5/16 HT chain holds my 44 foot sundeck extremely well, but that was not the case until I shackled 105 Lb mantus anchor to the end. Now I sleep very well at night on the hook
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